Occupy Wallstreet: Discuss

[Giant Ninja Robot]

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/15/141382468/occupy-wall-street-inspires-worldwide-protests&sc=fb&cc=fp

[littlec]

[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4016611/Photo Oct 15%2C 6 39 07 PM.jpg[/img]

[Dereksd]

YES

[joytron]

[b]Thirteen Observations made by Lemony Snicket while watching Occupy Wall Street from a Discreet Distance [/b]
1. If you work hard, and become successful, it does not necessarily mean you are successful because you worked hard, just as if you are tall with long hair it doesn’t mean you would be a midget if you were bald.
2. “Fortune” is a word for having a lot of money and for having a lot of luck, but that does not mean the word has two definitions.
3. Money is like a child—rarely unaccompanied. When it disappears, look to those who were supposed to be keeping an eye on it while you were at the grocery store. You might also look for someone who has a lot of extra children sitting around, with long, suspicious explanations for how they got there.
4. People who say money doesn’t matter are like people who say cake doesn’t matter—it’s probably because they’ve already had a few slices.
5. There may not be a reason to share your cake. It is, after all, yours. You probably baked it yourself, in an oven of your own construction with ingredients you harvested yourself. It may be possible to keep your entire cake while explaining to any nearby hungry people just how reasonable you are.
6. Nobody wants to fall into a safety net, because it means the structure in which they’ve been living is in a state of collapse and they have no choice but to tumble downwards. However, it beats the alternative.
7. Someone feeling wronged is like someone feeling thirsty. Don’t tell them they aren’t. Sit with them and have a drink.
8. Don’t ask yourself if something is fair. Ask someone else—a stranger in the street, for example.
9. People gathering in the streets feeling wronged tend to be loud, as it is difficult to make oneself heard on the other side of an impressive edifice.
10. It is not always the job of people shouting outside impressive buildings to solve problems. It is often the job of the people inside, who have paper, pens, desks, and an impressive view.
11. Historically, a story about people inside impressive buildings ignoring or even taunting people standing outside shouting at them turns out to be a story with an unhappy ending.
12. If you have a large crowd shouting outside your building, there might not be room for a safety net if you’re the one tumbling down when it collapses.
13. 99 percent is a very large percentage. For instance, easily 99 percent of people want a roof over their heads, food on their tables, and the occasional slice of cake for dessert. Surely an arrangement can be made with that niggling 1 percent who disagree.

[atalanta]

Just a couple links I thought were interesting:
[url="http://www.businessinsider.com/occupy-wall-street-has-plans-for-a-coordinated-national-gathering-2011-10"]http://www.businessinsider.com/occupy-wall-street-has-plans-for-a-coordinated-national-gathering-2011-10[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate-owned_life_insurance"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate-owned_life_insurance[/url]

[Satou]

[quote name='littlec' timestamp='1318456493' post='527552']
[img]https://s-hphotos-iad1.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/320035_2506361219565_1269082857_2914432_1868396627_n.jpg[/img]
[/quote]


This is mildly offending and I may go off topic ranting over this. But because this girl may not know what she may be even talking about, didn't live during the time of transition from good to terrible or even knowledgeable of her parents financial status (after all parents act like they are living beneath their means because they want to hide their financial issues from their Children) . Honestly most individuals who are under the age of 18 don't know jack shit even if they think they are educated enough, or old enough to think so. And second even if your parents have great degrees, stopped working to raise you, you' live beneath your means' like my parents do, go to college for any type of degree and etc. Doesn't mean your going to be comfortable, be able to get the job you desire or set out to have, access anything you need like health care and etc and that you may just be miserable in the long run attempting to shoot for those hypothetical stars that you lay out for yourself to grab at.
And possibly to many getting a college degree may not be even worth it because they cannot afford it nor are there promises or opportunities for work unless you go on for your masters. All of which is ridiculously expensive in comparison to other countries who almost make college 'free'. You may be able to have loans but can you even pay them off? Since loans do not, ever go away even if you declare bankruptcy.


Sure this organization is a little un-organized, may not have a clear set goals like every one hopes it would have. However at the very least people are making a [b]try[/b] at standing up for themselves, for where their money is going and showing how much of the population despite some good things are doing poorly and may not be ABLE to get a job or a degree in comparison to others. TO BECOME A FUNCTIONING MEMBER OF SOCIETY. Because you can apply for the lowest golden spatula award winning job despite your degrees, prowess at flipping flapjacks, etc and not get it.



So who is paying for the poor, illegal and overly successful? The middle/working class who is being squeezed to death on either side by these classes for what ever various reasons; the drain on the system, tax loop holes and etc. And this protest is showing that people who are neither poor nor rich are tired of being the one every one depends on for a 'comfortable' life or lie.

[littlec]

[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/295967_10150361223599800_274456764799_7899930_491382730_n.jpg[/img]

[Stuie]

66% of all charitable donations come from the 1%

Corporations, Middle Class, and Lower Income make up the other 34%.

Lost the article on it... looking for it now for verification.

[Dereksd]

yea exactly we have people like bill gates who are going to give away all the money they made when they die. Get over it people wah wah work hard and enjoy what you have.

People are saying all these wall street people are greedy but the people squating on wall street need to take a look in the mirror and see they are just jealous of what they dont have.

[littlec]

[quote name='Dereksd' timestamp='1319061949' post='528350']
yea exactly we have people like bill gates who are going to give away all the money they made when they die. Get over it people wah wah work hard and enjoy what you have.

People are saying all these wall street people are greedy but the people squating on wall street need to take a look in the mirror and see they are just jealous of what they dont have.
[/quote]


BUT IN AMERICA YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORK FOR ANYTHING IT SHOULD ALL BE HANDED TO ME!!!!!.












not

[Rani]

For those of you with the "wah, wah, wah" you're all just whining....... Wait another 20 years, discover you're much worse off than you ever expected to be, are nowhere near the 1% you aspire to, have zero chance of reaching it, and find your small business you've struggled for being taxed to death while the likes of Wal-mart gets ginormous tax breaks, bail-outs and business loans. Then get back to me after the reality of you actually being middle class and looking around with a "when did I get dinner because I am so screwed" sinks in.

What you're getting from the old farts around here is there everyone used to have a chance through hard work to make something of themselves and their lives. That chance has been stripped away, but you won't come to realize it for another 20 years or so. So get back to me in 2031, m'kay?

'Rani

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1319064547' post='528356']
For those of you with the "wah, wah, wah" you're all just whining....... Wait another 20 years, discover you're much worse off than you ever expected to be, are nowhere near the 1% you aspire to, have zero chance of reaching it, and find your small business you've struggled for being taxed to death while the likes of Wal-mart gets ginormous tax breaks, bail-outs and business loans. Then get back to me after the reality of you actually being middle class and looking around with a "when did I get dinner because I am so screwed" sinks in.

What you're getting from the old farts around here is there everyone used to have a chance through hard work to make something of themselves and their lives. That chance has been stripped away, but you won't come to realize it for another 20 years or so. So get back to me in 2031, m'kay?

'Rani
[/quote]

Or, more to the point, the harsh way...
You are so very totally, completely, undoubtedly screwed, and you are too young and clueless to know just how screwed you are. Go ahead and believe the politicians/professors/activists-organizer, after all what do they care... they are going home to a nice bed in their big house in a gated community that is bought with your futuire-now get back into that tent and make another cardboard sign, they need some grapefruit-news to take the public's eye off just how bad it actually is.

Want to protest the problem, go sit in front of the house, senate, and white house - better yet, go confront the career politicians in their offices, They are the culprits, not the banks operating in the framework the gov't established. Good grief, we see people protesting banks getting big bailouts... but not see anyone banging their fist on the counter and holding the bastards that gave them that bailout accountable. IMNHO it's about 20 years too late to save any of it. Those that have will keep, and the police-state the USA has become is there to protect the cookie jar for those that have - and there isn't jack that you, or anyone else can do about that at this point.

[Dereksd]

Yes you guys are right we are fucked. I'm gonna go kill myself now since there is no point since I can't have a good life since I'll never be part of the 1%

[mustang67n]

I think we all agree that our current system is pretty screwed up right?

I think we all then would agree that the system needs some drastic changes to work better, and to better serve the greater population.

I know I haven't done anything to try to change the way things are. I know those people 'occupying' the streets ARE doing something. I don't think it's the ultimate way to obtain these changes. But I do know that some work towards an ultimate goal that will help 99% of the population (and I'm certain that includes every member of this forum) is wayy better than sitting on a computer and bitching that these people are just whining and 'jealous'

At least they're doing something to change this bass-ackwards system

[Dereksd]

by doing something do you mean sitting around then going back to the apartment they live in to feed the cats?

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsJPKMvWDmY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsJPKMvWDmY[/url]

[Giant Ninja Robot]

No, he means going out there. Period. Are you seriously going to disrespect them for HAVING A HOME TO GO BACK TO? And Howard Stern is your argument. And apparently cats are only for hippie protesting pussies.

A generation shakes it's apathy off to stand up to bullshit that harms all of us and they're all a bunch of cat loving, work-hating hippies.

Let me say this one more time: THIS IS GLOBAL. The global nature of it all, the thousands of cities involved, debunks the childish profiling that seems to have become the defacto "argument" against the movement. Come with something of intelligence and substance and I'll have an ounce of respect. Talk the issues. Til then, it's superficial hatred and lame-o copout rhetoric regurgitation.

The world as we've made it (we collectively throughout time) sucks for so many people. Someone is doing something about it, even if only so much as lifting the veil of fear and suppression from the globally shared sentiments represented in the movement. This goes deep. It's the unnecessary deaths of so many, illnesses of so many, etc. at the hands of corrupt power fueled by greed, not only monetary in nature but as I said before, money is a linchpin as the center of our current global economy.

How DARE we stand up for a better world. How dare we. You come over to my house right now and tell my daughters that it's meaningless to hope for a better world, to do what they can to improve their existence. Tell them the next 80+ years will be increasingly miserable, if there would even be 80 years for them. Tell them that Daddy's quest to create a better world than he was left with is useless. Show them footage of genocide, rape, torture, starvation, homelessness, police brutality, etc. Tell them it's only going to get worse because nobody is standing up and saying "HEY. GOVERNMENTS. CORPORATIONS. WE WONT TAKE THIS SHIT ANYMORE. These are lives. And the collective life of our planet!" Oh wait. They ARE now.

It's all a part of the strategy. It's simple. The little people infight while the higher ups laugh all the way to the bank. Then the banks laugh because they're profiting. Then the government officials laugh because they're profiting from the corporations who profited from the people. They ALL end up laughing at the people. Or at least debasing them. YOU'RE fucking yourself by turning a blind eye to those realities. THAT is what Rani was talking about. And the little ants get smushed under thumb. Because that's all you fucking are to them. An ant to be crushed. Why are there riot police arresting groups of people at thesethings? Illegally and without due process (but I'm sure those small details don't matter to you)? Because the masses are POWERFUL. Because the only thing seperating us from them is money. Because in our current system money = power. This is not "gimme a handout" logic. I work HARD for what I get. And guess what? It's not enough and could be taken away from us at any time. Know why? Because success is nigh impossible anymore. And as long as we're all sitting here thinking we're a few small steps away from joining that 1 % ourselves, or that we're not ANYTHING like those OTHER people out there on the streets? They've fucking won. And you are the victims. Along with me. And my daughters. They're winning us to death.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7AWnfFRc7g&feature=share

[Giant Ninja Robot]

tell me this image makes sense.
[url="http://warincontext.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/occupy-phoenix.jpg"]http://warincontext....upy-phoenix.jpg[/url]

[Giant Ninja Robot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np2c0&feature=relmfu

[Satou]

[url="http://satou.tumblr.com/post/11686566482/protestwallstreet"]http://satou.tumblr.com/post/11686566482/protestwallstreet[/url]


Found this over tumblr and pretty much resonated with it.

[Rani]

[quote name='Dereksd' timestamp='1319074130' post='528375']
Yes you guys are right we are fucked. I'm gonna go kill myself now since there is no point since I can't have a good life since I'll never be part of the 1%
[/quote]

Look up fast, before you miss it altogether..... Zoom, that would be the obvious point flying over your head. It's the attitude of "yeah, it's good, they're stupid for protesting" that going to cause you to end up letting yourself be screwed over by a system that's now stacked against you. You have the opportunity to change it. You have a chance to make an impact, a difference if you accept that those of us who were out there in the "good ol' days" might have a clue about how bad it really is compared to what it used to, and still should be. If you accept that, wake the hell up and then as a generation shake things up and refuse to accept the pablum they're sucking you into, you have a chance to not only survive but build something worthwhile on the chaos. But if you don't? Welcome to a future reality that bad apocalypse movies are made of.

'Rani

[Fusion]

Rani, if Glenn Beck and Howard Stern couldn't pull the wool off from over your eyes, I don't know what will. God help you woman. Besides, living in a cool post-apocalyptic world would be the perfect setting to further display my political nihilism as a badge of honor.

Bootstraps.

[Rani]

[quote name='Fusion ' timestamp='1319134958' post='528465']
Rani, if Glenn Beck and Howard Stern couldn't pull the wool off from over your eyes, I don't know what will. God help you woman. Besides, living in a cool post-apocalyptic world would be the perfect setting to further display my political nihilism as a badge of honor.

Bootstraps.
[/quote]

Glenn Beck? Howard Stern? This would be whom I should count on for political advice? Really?

Scotsman and I may fence back and forth but we're both old farts who remember what the country was like back when everyone in it had a chance. You're 24. Jesus H. Christ, we've got underwear older than you are. When we old folks talk about the folly of youth, it's not because we think you're stupid (okay, some of you really ARE stupid thanks to our lousy educational system but I digress), but it's because years alive don't give you wisdom but they do give you experience. And it's experience that allows you to know and reference what was against was is now and is likely to be in the future. It's going to get so much worse for you than you have the slightest clue about if you don't change things for yourselves. We're too old and have taken up drinking heavily as a hobby because we're earned it.

'Rani

[Stuie]

1965 - 10% of America is on some sort of government assistant program.

1985 - 22% of America is on some sort of government assistant program.

2011 - 48% of America is on some sort of government assistant program.

I see a problem with the people and the source of the money drain!!!! (Taxes are to high for me because I help support 48% of the American population)

F@#$*) IT! I am gonna quit and go live off the government. Amazing how many Escalades reside at the Section 8 Apartments just outside my neighborhood.

What's my motivation to work now? Seriously?

[Dereksd]

Haha I'm out