New Fees On Debit Cards

[Satou]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/30/business/banks-to-make-customers-pay-debit-card-fee.html


I don't know if any one on here has heard about this issue but certain large banks are now deciding or 'thinking' about imposing a fee to utilize their debit cards. This was brought up on the msn.com news feed along with multiple other sources like NY times. How ever there are other sources such as FORBES who think this is potentially a good thing to come about

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/10/01/why-the-new-bank-of-america-debit-card-fees-are-a-good-thing/


I was wondering how does this make all of you feel? Especially with all the rising costs, the ever growing difference between lower class and upper class, unfair wages ( CEO'S earning much more than they should) and so on an so forth.


I personally find this blatant fee to be ridiculous, That it helps no one but the banks and makes me want to pull all my cash out of the bank like people did in the 1920's. This is especially true since I am a 'college' student who already has a substantial amount of fees; medical and car insurance, medical bills, tuition, books, gasoline, food, rent, and maybe -if I am rich enough that paycheck - play money. And I don't want any more fees, especially from a place where I decided to 'store' my money. Not just to protest this corporate America scheme to keep or create a profit.

[vendetta_revived]

Well I don't know the details, but the idea itself, of you having to pay a fee to spend your own damn money is probably the most stupidest thing I've heard in a while.

I mean, who comes up with this stuff?

[Chreees]

It blows... It only shows the country is in deep shit and headed farther down. This ain't over yet, people. Far from it.

[atalanta]

I had an account with BoA (Bank of America) because the Boss had an account there and for him to pay us the fees were less if it was going from BoA to BoA. About the time I left that company, the BoA branch 2 blocks from the office was closing. All the branches within a mile of my house (in PA) closed. Right before the last one near me closed, I closed my account (the teller at the one near me used to be at the one near work before it closed) and did not hide how glad I was to do it. They had just charged me $9.00 because my new job didn't do direct deposit.

When I moved my retirement account to Wells Fargo, my financial advisor "suggested" opening an account. I told him, no offence, I do not do my banking with big banks. My main checking account is with the local bank they have now 2 branches. My business account is with another small bank. And my car loan is through the local credit union. So if any of the other two banks go "weird" everything goes to the CU.

I do have one account in a HUGE bank. They had a great offer for interest rate for internet only banking and basically all I do is put money in - it's a savings account for a trip (I'm going to give my mom a trip to Egypt for her birthday in 10 years and if I start saving a little at a time now, we can go in Style!)

[Rani]

The markets/vendors thought they were paying too much in fees for customers to use their debit cards. Average fee per customer/transaction? $0.44. So instead of raising prices, like 1 cent on everything to cover it which we wouldn't have even noticed, they went to Congress. Congress says, "Yes, you poor, poor global corporations, you are paying too much in fees! We're going to limit those rotten bankers!" So they did. Now the banks are not willing to lose $0.24 per transaction, so they turn around and charge their customers. End result? The vendor keeps his profits, the bank keeps their profits, and we the end customer, once again, get screwed.

I mean really, when is enough, enough? I understand all businesses are in it for the profit, but when it is enough profit? When do they begin to realize that taking care of your customer and being in a business relationship with them where both they, and you, get to keep a balanced amount of money/wealth is the better, more stable and secure situation for everyone? I'm thinking considering the way things are going, pretty much never. Welcome to capitalism folks, aren't we lucky? And they wonder why the poor don't use banks. Instead they use those wired cash cards where you pay one blanket fee per month and they don't give a damn how you use it. You can even direct deposit your paycheck onto them now. I'd say a lot more people will be signing up for them in the upcoming future and telling banks in general to go fuck themselves.

'Rani

[Fusion]

Can't say it any better than 'Rani did, but here's my wall of text anyways.

So far I've only heard Wells Fargo was going to do this, while a handful of the other larger banks have made press releases that they don't intend on doing this (just yet, at least). We all know this is absolutely ridiculous, banks are always looking for new ways to nickel and dime their customers, but in this economy it's also just plain ruthless. As 'Rani said, when is enough enough? The people in charge of the financial industry come off as though they could have it all and it still wouldn't be enough.

Obama made quite a few changes to the credit card and banking systems a couple years ago, unfortunately a lot of these banks aren't following many of the rules even though they've now gone into effect. And these are small things that are very easy to do, like not gouging their customers with fees, or giving them loans that the banks know cannot be repaid. These are the kinds of things that shouldn't have to be guaranteed by legislation or be seen as acceptable because it's just the will of the market, we should be able to take for granted that the people we trust with our money feel obligated to watch out for our best financial interests. But again, Obama has made changes that are going ignored and also unenforced, so what's the difference?

Anyways, I'm feeling pretty thankful that my Mom took me in to her credit union as a child and made me an account. I've banked with one (big) bank and closed my account because it wasn't even funny how horrible it was compared to the credit union. I really hope more and more people take their money to their local banks or credit unions

[omegaalpha22]

I feel the same way as everyone.
That's why all my shit is with Navy FCU...one amazing bank! I do have one account with a regional bank though (SunTrust).

[Hellz]

CEO's and business owners earning more than they should? Are you kidding me? They are in business to make as much money as possible. They are far from being the greedy ones. I'm sorry, if I own a business I'm not working and mantaining it so someone else can get rich. or my employees can earn as much as I do. That's just plain idiotic.

Anyway, I dont really agree with the new fees. That's like a hooker charging extra for foreplay.

[vendetta_revived]

[quote name='Hellz' timestamp='1317774874' post='526460']
CEO's and business owners earning more than they should? Are you kidding me? They are in business to make as much money as possible. They are far from being the greedy ones. I'm sorry, if I own a business I'm not working and mantaining it so someone else can get rich. or my employees can earn as much as I do. That's just plain idiotic.

Anyway, I dont really agree with the new fees. That's like a hooker charging extra for foreplay.
[/quote]

It's more like first buying gas for your car, and then then pay again for consuming it. Edited October 5, 2011 by vendetta_revived

[Stuie]

I read about Wells Fargo doing this in a few states starting this month. As soon as the year is up I am switching to a local CU

[Chreees]

Regions is doing it starting this month... I have a student checking account because I'm under 25 and in school. For student accounts, the fee each month is $4. Non-student accounts the fee is [b]$10[/b]. So, essentially, I need to find a new bank or just go with a credit union, especially when I graduate this December...

[TheScotsman]

You use the bank's services, you get to pay for the services you use. What the hell is wrong with that concept? No one is twisting your arm and making you use that card. There are no fees if you don't charge debits on it. No fees for using the ATM affiliated with the bank. You pay for the service you get. Sounds fine to me. But then I use old fashioned paper cheques, written with an old fashioned pen. (my favourite is a 1930's Parker, but that is another story.) With a credit card the banks make $ on the intrest (if you are dumb enough to carry a balance.) and fees, if you have such crappy credit you need to pay yearly fees on a credit card, well, that is your own stupid fault.

When you use a debit, the processing, and risks of fraud are equal to that the bank is exposed to with credit, but they get nothing for it, except the merchant charges (1.3% -3% not a 44 cent fee on all trans... that is the current average-and near the cap) Now the feds roll down, and cap that fee at, well, basically jack. Even Bernanke said it was a stupid law, full of unintended consequences. But we had to rush that bitch through, and get it signed. Why do you think the banks owe you a free service of processing your charges for nothing? Hell, if you had any money in their bank, they would give you credit card, and it wouldn't be an issue... so I don't think the threat of taking all your no money out really has much weight.

What used to really honk me off was when I owned a restaurant, and people would put the tip on the cards. Then I got to pay 2.9% on the actual ticket total, and I got to pay 2.9% for the tip the staff got. It doesn't sound like much, but once you see a monthly cost exceeding a grand for taking tips on plastic, it gets your attention... or at least it did mine. Damn, I hated that place-not a good business for me to be in. Now I see the restaurants are charging the staff the bank fees out of their tips. Let me hear you liberals squeal about how unfair that is... come on, you can do it. I would think it's going to come to a point where all merchants start charging you for the full amount of their BC fees, likely sooner than later. Remember when gas pumps had two prices, one for cash, and one for plastic? It will be on everything at some point.

Answer: quit using the damn plastic and learn to use (gasp) real cash! No one charges you for using it, and you get to walk around with a pocket full of heads from dead white guys.

It's not like buying gas then paying again to use it... it's like charging the gas station for the honor of selling you gas, while they don't get charged to sell it to the guy with cash.

Rani, you missed the mark big time.... it isn't that the bank's merchant agreement wouldn't have allowed another few cents. The card issuers were just fine with the way it was going.

These fees are a result of a law proposed by that paragon of liberalism, Chris Dodd, and Barny "where is dat wascally-wabbit" Frank. In the typical fashion of the morons that occupy the congress, they decided to clamp the fees below what they were. Why? who the hell knows why those jackasses do anything? The end result is that the banks will collect the same $, but now, instead of merchants paying it out of their take, the person using the convenience of the debit card gets to pay for it. Don't like it? thank you liberal senators-they did it.

This is just your first chance to get screwed by this stupid law, there is more to come! it creates 7 new bureaus, commissions, and councils... all with their hand in your pocket. Hang on, it's going to get to be an expensive ride. Lesson: When the gov't throttles one income stream, businesses will seek another avenue for that same $; when the gov't confiscates money from businesses, they will pass 100% of that tax on to the customer - In the end, it's going to come out of YOUR pocket. Wise up... that is how it works.


Oh, and don't blame me, I didn't vote for these retards.

[Rani]

I'd agree with almost everything you said Scotsman except for one pretty big detail. Every night my money sits in their bank, they're making money off my money. And yours. They transfer, they lend, they invest, hundreds of thousands of times within each 24-hour period. (I was actually in banking a very, VERY long time go. Our actual assets would flux by millions every single night.) This move increases the amount they get to keep for themselves rather than pay back each day when the doors to the bank open. They used to pay interest, etc. for the privilege of using our money to make money for themselves, but first they lowered the interest, then took it away completely on some types of account, and now they're upping fees. Sorry, enough is enough.

'Rani

[mustang67n]

yeah.. Definitely agree with 'Rani on this one.. The banks make outrageous amounts of money off of the money we store in them. If they charge us to use those cards, then they're simply making money off of our money twice instead of the once with their investments. I have no problem keeping my money in a bank knowing the bank is using it to make their own money, but I do have a problem with them charging ME for THEM to make money off of the money I put in there!

Definitely not right. No matter how it's spun or re-written, it's bass-akwards.

[joytron]

I think you both kinda missed the point that its your choice whether or not you use debit cards to purchase goods.

[mustang67n]

i definitely understand that we choose to. But if they're already making money off of us just having our money in their bank, doesn't it seem to be fair of them to cover the small charges it costs to use the debit? especially if it's such a small charge. It's greed. The bit corporatioins exploiting the little guys again. I use cash most of the time as it is, but it still irks me.

[Rani]

[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1317848269' post='526590']
I think you both kinda missed the point that its your choice whether or not you use debit cards to purchase goods.
[/quote]

As it would be my choice to let them use my money as their investment capital, right? You're missing the point of "don't charge me for the privilege of investing my money if you're not going to pay me interest for the use of my money". And you're going to get charged the fee by the way, whether you use your debit card or not. A flat monthly fee for having it in your pocket which you're going to need, because it's also your ATM card.

'Rani

[TheScotsman]

Most of the banks will not charge premium accounts. Another words, if you actually have any money in the bank for them to invest into their sweep account, they will give you a pass on the fees. If you don't have any $$ on deposit, then you get to pay up.

If you actually have some money in the bank you won't get charged.... or at least that is what J.P. Morgan/Chase told me. I also use Air Academy CU, and they won't be charging either. Chase is planning free premiums with 5K in any one account. Anyone should be able to have a 5K savings account-then you pay nothing. Can't do it? then you don't have any money at all, and why should they worry about you one way or another? Your business is more of a pain-in-the-ass for them than anything. So go buy a prepaid visa at china-mart, and use that.


The point is that Dodd/Frank act is costing them much more than just capping a fee. That is the tip of the financial cost iceberg. The CBO is estimating the cost at 37.8 billion in compliance, and regulatory costs, and an additional 12.4 billion in lost revenue from reduced fee income. While it sounds good to say they are charging you to use your own money, that is simply not true. They are charging more, as a percentage, to pay for the added bs-costs, and regulatory expenses to comply with the crap-ass law setup by "wascally-wabbit" Frank. Why do you think the gov't can saddle a business with an ass-load of more costs, and laws to deal with, but they should eat it, and give you a freebee? That is as stupid as a shit-sandwch on moldy rye. They have a fiduciary responsibility to their stock holder to make money,and not eat up their investment with costs associated with some new law that cures nothing, but causes allot more problems.

Don't blame the banks, they are responding to a market force generated by a bunch of liberal-progressives in the congress, and white house, that are making 2000+ page laws (that they can not even read themselves) with no concern for the actual outcome of their actions. [u]If you voted for them, you are getting exactly what you deserve for your actions[/u], and it's time to sit down, and quit whining about it, because you sound silly. If you didn't vote for them, well, join the rest of us who are getting hosed by the fact most voters in the USA don't even know how the first president was. (Do you?) Think about it next time you see that (D) behind a name. Reality sucks, too bad.

[joytron]

I am curious as someone who seems to think its foolish to blame all our current problems on Bush, do you actually see a difference blaming all our problems on Democrats?

[Rani]

[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1317933297' post='526773']
I am curious as someone who seems to think its foolish to blame all our current problems on Bush, do you actually see a difference blaming all our problems on Democrats?
[/quote]

My view..... There is no real difference between the two parties. Every one of them is a career politician. This is their career. It's really not much different than you deciding to work for Xerox instead of IBM. Within each party there are moderates who probably match up their ideals 90% or more of the time. And there are extremists as well. But if you're a career politician, know that's what you want to do for the next 40-50 years, you're going to join whichever party, or "company" gives you the best shot at climbing the ladder to success.

Barack Obama clearly knew he didn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected to anything on a Republican ticket, because quite frankly a substantial portion of the voting republican population still are hung up on the whole racism issue whether they admit it consciously or not. (Side note: Can't really blame anyone still alive for having taken sides on events that literally reshaped our entire society less than 50 years ago. We'll get past it in another full generation perhaps, maybe two.) But he was clearly set on being a career politician so he set himself up to become the darling of the Democratic Party, and woo-hoo, climbed that freakin' ladder all the way to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

So I don't blame a particular party as a whole. I blame the career path of politicians, who need billions to get and stay elected, and therefore almost have to be up for sale to the highest corporate bidder.

However, and this is a big however...... There is a huge misconception that this "class war" thing is the wealthy who have worked for what they have against your average welfare mother who would rather have another child than find a job. That impression has been dramatically enforced by those who have a vested interest in keeping us at war with each other. Whereas in reality, the middle class is mostly the small business owner employing maybe one or two thousand local worker, paying himself a salary - even if it's a great big one, and coming to work every day just like every single one of his workers. That's the middle class, and that's who are being systemically devastated by the global corporations who are out to take over everything they are trying to build for future generations and local population. When someone like Scotsman who counts as squarely in our middle class supports those politicians who are at clearly at war with him and not global corporations who are getting all the tax breaks, bailouts, and advantages he can't? I would think that's a very real and obvious definition of insanity.

'Rani

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1317933297' post='526773']
I am curious as someone who seems to think its foolish to blame all our current problems on Bush, do you actually see a difference blaming all our problems on Democrats?
[/quote]

We are not talking about "everything" but rather one specific event, and one specific cause, in case that missed you along the way. I thin the dems are driving us to hell faster than you would ever believe. IMNHO Bush (Mk1 and Mk2) were a couple of progressive RINOs, no different than a dem, and he was a complete dipshit.


Answer...
is Chris Dodd a democrat? yes!
Is Blabberin' Barny Frank a Democrat? Yes
is Dick "the tuban" Durban a democrat? yes.
Is Dingy-Harry Reed a dem? again, yes.
Signed by Obama... a democrat? Yes.


Who the hell else should I blame? Santa Clause? Tooth Faerie? Mary Poppins? Easter Bunny? Just who do you think caused it? Pick one.

Must be George Bush's fault. Whatever.

Rani, drop the racist card, it's a crutch. That myth is dispelled by the polls on Herman Cain (who I myself would LOVE to be able to see in office). Remember, he is the guy an obummer staffer called a "racist and a biggot". Guess he needs to invest in a colour television.

If there were any racists in that election they were found in the fact the black pop voted over 90 % for him. Remember the Black Panthers threatening people at the polls? Hmm... they weren't racist? Who cares what colour someone is? It's how they think, and what they have for a moral footing that matters. Anyone basing their vote on something as shallow as what wavelength of light the candidate reflects is a fool, and needs to be shot into space in an AMC pacer. To the vast majority of us it just is irrelevant! but to those that seek to crucify themselves on a cross of "liberal-white-guilt" they just can't let the crutch fall. Sure there are still some retards running around in white sheets, but giving them power by saddling that label on the majority of the USA that couldn't care less what colour they are is doing everyone a disservice.

[Harmful Yahoo Rook]

Go with a local bank with good policies, or if all else fails a noteworthy credit union is a safe bet.

[Rani]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1317962577' post='526864']
[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1317933297' post='526773']
I am curious as someone who seems to think its foolish to blame all our current problems on Bush, do you actually see a difference blaming all our problems on Democrats?
[/quote]

We are not talking about "everything" but rather one specific event, and one specific cause, in case that missed you along the way. I thin the dems are driving us to hell faster than you would ever believe. IMNHO Bush (Mk1 and Mk2) were a couple of progressive RINOs, no different than a dem, and he was a complete dipshit.


Answer...
is Chris Dodd a democrat? yes!
Is Blabberin' Barny Frank a Democrat? Yes
is Dick "the tuban" Durban a democrat? yes.
Is Dingy-Harry Reed a dem? again, yes.
Signed by Obama... a democrat? Yes.


Who the hell else should I blame? Santa Clause? Tooth Faerie? Mary Poppins? Easter Bunny? Just who do you think caused it? Pick one.

Must be George Bush's fault. Whatever.

Rani, drop the racist card, it's a crutch. That myth is dispelled by the polls on Herman Cain (who I myself would LOVE to be able to see in office). Remember, he is the guy an obummer staffer called a "racist and a biggot". Guess he needs to invest in a colour television.

If there were any racists in that election they were found in the fact the black pop voted over 90 % for him. Remember the Black Panthers threatening people at the polls? Hmm... they weren't racist? Who cares what colour someone is? It's how they think, and what they have for a moral footing that matters. Anyone basing their vote on something as shallow as what wavelength of light the candidate reflects is a fool, and needs to be shot into space in an AMC pacer. To the vast majority of us it just is irrelevant! but to those that seek to crucify themselves on a cross of "liberal-white-guilt" they just can't let the crutch fall. Sure there are still some retards running around in white sheets, but giving them power by saddling that label on the majority of the USA that couldn't care less what colour they are is doing everyone a disservice.
[/quote]

Not to thread jack too far, but you're wrong about the racist issue, and you are justified in your belief because, surprise, surprise, you're white. Stand in my shoes, someone who's nearly pure blood Native American who looks white and hear what the "white folks" say without thinking, and you'd be astonished. And disgusted. Racism is very much alive and well in America. People who say racism is a crutch, or non-existent in the bigger scheme of things, or irrevelant, are almost always white. And I'm not even saying it's unjustified. I lived through the 60's, Black Panthers, Watts Riots, the Viva La Raza years, and so on. It shaped me unconsciously just as it did every one else. If you think we're not influenced by our exposure to the violent and racism then and still exhibited in millions of small way and gestures we're exposed to day in and day out, for the first time in my knowing you, I'm convinced you're an idiot. There are none so blind as though who CHOOSE not to see.

'Rani

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1318002592' post='526928']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1317962577' post='526864']
[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1317933297' post='526773']
I am curious as someone who seems to think its foolish to blame all our current problems on Bush, do you actually see a difference blaming all our problems on Democrats?
[/quote]

We are not talking about "everything" but rather one specific event, and one specific cause, in case that missed you along the way. I thin the dems are driving us to hell faster than you would ever believe. IMNHO Bush (Mk1 and Mk2) were a couple of progressive RINOs, no different than a dem, and he was a complete dipshit.


Answer...
is Chris Dodd a democrat? yes!
Is Blabberin' Barny Frank a Democrat? Yes
is Dick "the tuban" Durban a democrat? yes.
Is Dingy-Harry Reed a dem? again, yes.
Signed by Obama... a democrat? Yes.


Who the hell else should I blame? Santa Clause? Tooth Faerie? Mary Poppins? Easter Bunny? Just who do you think caused it? Pick one.

Must be George Bush's fault. Whatever.

Rani, drop the racist card, it's a crutch. That myth is dispelled by the polls on Herman Cain (who I myself would LOVE to be able to see in office). Remember, he is the guy an obummer staffer called a "racist and a biggot". Guess he needs to invest in a colour television.

If there were any racists in that election they were found in the fact the black pop voted over 90 % for him. Remember the Black Panthers threatening people at the polls? Hmm... they weren't racist? Who cares what colour someone is? It's how they think, and what they have for a moral footing that matters. Anyone basing their vote on something as shallow as what wavelength of light the candidate reflects is a fool, and needs to be shot into space in an AMC pacer. To the vast majority of us it just is irrelevant! but to those that seek to crucify themselves on a cross of "liberal-white-guilt" they just can't let the crutch fall. Sure there are still some retards running around in white sheets, but giving them power by saddling that label on the majority of the USA that couldn't care less what colour they are is doing everyone a disservice.
[/quote]

Not to thread jack too far, but you're wrong about the racist issue, and you are justified in your belief because, surprise, surprise, you're white. Stand in my shoes, someone who's nearly pure blood Native American who looks white and hear what the "white folks" say without thinking, and you'd be astonished. And disgusted. Racism is very much alive and well in America. People who say racism is a crutch, or non-existent in the bigger scheme of things, or irrevelant, are almost always white. And I'm not even saying it's unjustified. I lived through the 60's, Black Panthers, Watts Riots, the Viva La Raza years, and so on. It shaped me unconsciously just as it did every one else. If you think we're not influenced by our exposure to the violent and racism then and still exhibited in millions of small way and gestures we're exposed to day in and day out, for the first time in my knowing you, I'm convinced you're an idiot. There are none so blind as though who CHOOSE not to see.

'Rani
[/quote]


Guess I better turn in those Leach Lake band of Ojibwa license plates, and my ID card then eh?

[littlec]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1317845868' post='526584']
I'd agree with almost everything you said Scotsman except for one pretty big detail. Every night my money sits in their bank, they're making money off my money. And yours. They transfer, they lend, they invest, hundreds of thousands of times within each 24-hour period. (I was actually in banking a very, VERY long time go. Our actual assets would flux by millions every single night.) This move increases the amount they get to keep for themselves rather than pay back each day when the doors to the bank open. They used to pay interest, etc. for the privilege of using our money to make money for themselves, but first they lowered the interest, then took it away completely on some types of account, and now they're upping fees. Sorry, enough is enough.

'Rani
[/quote]


This, also scottsman carrying around cash just isn't practical in a lot of situations and there is no security in that as well.