Poll : Do You Really Think Its The Bes Idea To Suggest Phunnels And Tangiers To Beginners?

[S3cretz]

My personal belief is no. Why? :

Tangiers Is not that easy to pack assimilate or smoke.
And Phunnels arent neccisarily that easy to pack either.

Bowls :

Many of the basic skills you learn when packing a normal egyptian or mod bowl go to waste when you switch to a phunnel But there are a few key skills that Switch over wich I feel are much harder To learn when starting with a phunnel.
1. Tobacco consistency : the effect it has on buzz and Cloud thickness.
2. Hole Patterns And size : the effect it has on session lifetime , buzz and Cloud thickness.
3. Heat management This is the most important as heat management on an egyptian is much harder than a phunnel. And almost any hookah smoker will tell you heat management is one of the most important skills you learn

Tobacco :

1. The buzz from Tangiers can knock most people off their ass. That isnt neccisarily a good thing.
2. Assimilation It takes forever and disheartens many when they cant get it right.
3. Heat managment and packing level Tangiers is a temperamental tobacco at best and you really need to know what your doing or you might end up with a bad session.

Some other thoughts :

If someone starts out with tangiers and has a bad experience it might ruin it for them and they will never experience the joy of it.
the first time they smoke it should be the best possible First.

Otherwise you need to crawl before you walk and that just makes walking so much better.

Oh and im not hating on tangiers or phunnels they make for the best hookah smoking experience possible. And i said nothing about naturals.

and these are only my opinions not the forums I can be and am most possibly am wrong

Then Finally what I think they should start with :

Nakhla, AF or Desi Muril
and a Egyptian bowl
or a mod but an Egyptian preffrably.

[Chreees]

Yes. I wish someone had told me to just skip all the bullshit and get right to Tangiers, because it's all I smoke now. I wasted a lot of money on brands that were meh, when I could have been spending it on Tangiers, which is much more enjoyable and the best tobacco on the market we can buy. Of course, this is all in my opinion. Everyone's different. But to me smoking different stuff before I focused on Tangiers and learned the packing techniques and such, it was all pretty much just bullshit. And noobies can learn Tangiers just fine- look at Joe, he jumped right in and learned "Hella" quick.

Edit: Just read your post more thoroughly, and Id like to say I always recommend Lucid for those starting out with Tangiers. Also, I agree that Nakhla is a good starter tobacco due to its easy heat management, but it is often disliked by newcomers to the hobby due to its heavy buzz as well. Desi Murli is the same.

It's not that Tangiers or phunnel bowls are harder to pack, it's just a different process than what most people are accustomed to.

[Moki]

Damn, all those Tangiers threads make me sad that I can't get to them in Europe.

[Floataround]

I would say the best starter shisha would be either Nak or Fantasia, because both are hard to burn (for different reasons) and in that time you can really start learning the finer points.

Both can get rough, but with Nak you really pile the heat on and will have a hard time burning it, and Fantasia is so wet that it would be hard to burn. Its just nice through the learning process when you do not have to throw out a whole bowl, you can just purge and adjust your coals as needed.

While I have yet to try DM (but really want to!), I would not say thats the best for a noob...having to mix it I could see really turning some people away from it, and from what I have read and understood, heat management is can more complex for it.

[Zildjian]

i still cant figure out why this is so hard for people. its really simple, and I never had an issue with it. You arent asking to do complex quantum math, you take a lil fork, scoop out the tobacco, put it in the bowl, cover, and smoke. so absolutely I would tell a beginner to get a phunnel and tangiers, hell I would START them with that.

[a cliche affair]

Yes, it's a good idea. I think people just way overthink it and get discouraged before even trying because of all the "how do I pack tang" threads around here.

My thought is this, the majority of people who start out and get hooked on this hobby will go to tangiers (either noir or lucid) and pick up a phunnel bowl eventually. Why waste time perfecting an egyptian bowl only to switch to a phunnel and have to learn a whole new process anyways?

[claytronmeans]

You say that you wouldn't recommend it because of the buzz, yet you recommend Desi Murli?? That makes no sense.

Negating all of that, Lucid works just fine without any harshness, and it is a much smaller buzz.

[S3cretz]

[quote name='claytronmeans' timestamp='1319723087' post='529087']
You say that you wouldn't recommend it because of the buzz, yet you recommend Desi Murli?? That makes no sense.

Negating all of that, Lucid works just fine without any harshness, and it is a much smaller buzz.
[/quote]
Depends how you pack it but I get your point. Just remember I said the buzz isint nescisarily a bad thing didint say it wasnt a good thing either. Many new smokers get into hookah for the buzz most for the flavour. Wich is why buzz was only one point and not something I really focused on

[Killface]

Also, acclimate is the word you're looking for, not assimilate.

And if you think you should "crawl before you walk" why do you suggest starting with an egyptian bowl which you think is more difficult to learn heat management with?

[S3cretz]

[quote name='Killface' timestamp='1319727463' post='529090']
Also, acclimate is the word you're looking for, not assimilate.

And if you think you should "crawl before you walk" why do you suggest starting with an egyptian bowl which you think is more difficult to learn heat management with?
[/quote]

Thank's. You learn more about heat management that way.

[Hassouni]

Desi Murli has more buzz than Tangiers. Vastly more. If Tangiers makes you feel lighthead, DM will knock you out.

Anyway, I think starting out on normal mu'assal is a good idea. Want to set up a nargile anywhere else in the world? Tangiers doesn't exist and you'll be using Nakhla, or AF, or whatever. Secondly, certain non-Tangiers flavors are really good and I don't think Tangiers has a monopoly on the good-flavor market. Finally, I can get (as you can too most likely if you scour local Middle Eastern shops) Nakhla for $6, on the spot. I can, at best, get Tangiers for about $13 or $14 per 250 after shipping.

Also, it's not that Tangiers is harder or easier, but there's less margin for error. As others have said, and as Jay (Arcane) has shown in his awesome video, you can smack Nakhla in a bowl and do anything to it and it'll smoke. Tangiers is not like that.

Also funnel bowls to me require more precise heat management just because Tangiers scorches so easily. I've never owned an Egyptian bowl but I've smoked out of them at every single nargile place in the US, and I don't think they're difficult.

[S3cretz]

Like I said Desi murli for people that like buzz.

I think you sum it Up perfectly further.

[IainUM]

gotta learn sometime, might as well be early

[Epoch]

I wish I started with Tangiers and phunnel bowls.

[atalanta]

I'll probably order some Tangiers when I order my small phunnel from 5 star. I'm thinking of phunnel for more gooey shisha, like Fantasia which is a mess. And acclimation I am sure will be not so bad now that we're entering the dry cold season (I would think its harder during the hot wet season).

This is not an easy hobby, or a cheap one. But I'm getting to like it!

[vendetta_revived]

[quote name='Hassouni' timestamp='1319732669' post='529099']
Desi Murli has more buzz than Tangiers. Vastly more. If Tangiers makes you feel lighthead, DM will knock you out.

Anyway, I think starting out on normal mu'assal is a good idea. Want to set up a nargile anywhere else in the world? Tangiers doesn't exist and you'll be using Nakhla, or AF, or whatever. Secondly, certain non-Tangiers flavors are really good and I don't think Tangiers has a monopoly on the good-flavor market. Finally, I can get (as you can too most likely if you scour local Middle Eastern shops) Nakhla for $6, on the spot. I can, at best, get Tangiers for about $13 or $14 per 250 after shipping.

Also, it's not that Tangiers is harder or easier, but there's less margin for error. [b]As others have said, and as Jay (Arcane) has shown in his awesome video, you can smack Nakhla in a bowl and do anything to it and it'll smoke.[/b] Tangiers is not like that.

Also funnel bowls to me require more precise heat management just because Tangiers scorches so easily. I've never owned an Egyptian bowl but I've smoked out of them at every single nargile place in the US, and I don't think they're difficult.
[/quote]

Where can I find this video?

[Arcane]

errr...nm. people mentioned it already.

but, i vote yes....Lucid though, not Noir. Edited October 27, 2011 by Arcane

[ChicagoRSX]

I voted no simply for this reason. My first session using the Tangiers phunnel was lack luster due to lack of experience obviously. I have no problem admitting that. I got some flavor, and had smoke, but overall just didn't get the big deal. I then on a whim packed my Crown Classic with it and was floored by how robust the flavor was. Really made me want to keep perfecting my Tang phunnel so I could see this great smoking experience everyone talks about. Had I just bought the Tang phunnel, I might have said f-it, this shit is just over rated.But due to the flavor I got off the Crown Classic, I had to press on and try to master the Tang phunnel.

[Arcane]

[quote name='ChicagoRSX' timestamp='1319754357' post='529165']
I voted no simply for this reason. My first session using the Tangiers phunnel was lack luster due to lack of experience obviously. I have no problem admitting that. I got some flavor, and had smoke, but overall just didn't get the big deal. I then on a whim packed my Crown Classic with it and was floored by how robust the flavor was. Really made me want to keep perfecting my Tang phunnel so I could see this great smoking experience everyone talks about. Had I just bought the Tang phunnel, I might have said f-it, this shit is just over rated.But due to the flavor I got off the Crown Classic, I had to press on and try to master the Tang phunnel.
[/quote]The flaw in that logic is that you're attributing the failure to Tangiers, not to the user. People who say, "Tangiers isn't great. It doesn't smoke well" actually mean, "I don't know what I'm doing, so I'll blame the tobacco."

I alsodisagree with both points the OP made about Tangiers not being easy to smoke and the phunnel being harder to pack.

First point, Lucid is quite forgiving and even those with noted Noir issues, have no problems with Lucid. Point the second, people try to apply their current knowledge of packing towards Tangiers and get bad results. Tangiers isn't harder to pack...it just requires a different method. Third, the phunnel takes about as much effort to pack as a standard egyptian, except you don't have to worry about blocking the airflow by packing too tightly.

[Arcane]

[quote name='Hassouni' timestamp='1319732669' post='529099']
Also, it's not that Tangiers is harder or easier, but there's less margin for error. As others have said, and as Jay (Arcane) has shown in his awesome video, you can smack Nakhla in a bowl and do anything to it and it'll smoke. Tangiers is not like that.[/quote]Yeah, Nakhla's great. I've actually adopted a packing method similar to the one in the video. It's a lot cleaner too.

1. Plow superchief or egyptian bowl through container and stand bowl upright.
2. Foil over
3. Poke holes w/ semi sharp object. I've been using my fingernail lately.
4. Add coals
5. ???
6. Profit!

[Chreees]

[quote name='Arcane' timestamp='1319755876' post='529167']
[quote name='ChicagoRSX' timestamp='1319754357' post='529165']
I voted no simply for this reason. My first session using the Tangiers phunnel was lack luster due to lack of experience obviously. I have no problem admitting that. I got some flavor, and had smoke, but overall just didn't get the big deal. I then on a whim packed my Crown Classic with it and was floored by how robust the flavor was. Really made me want to keep perfecting my Tang phunnel so I could see this great smoking experience everyone talks about. Had I just bought the Tang phunnel, I might have said f-it, this shit is just over rated.But due to the flavor I got off the Crown Classic, I had to press on and try to master the Tang phunnel.
[/quote]The flaw in that logic is that you're attributing the failure to Tangiers, not to the user. People who say, "Tangiers isn't great. It doesn't smoke well" actually mean, "I don't know what I'm doing, so I'll blame the tobacco."

I alsodisagree with both points the OP made about Tangiers not being easy to smoke and the phunnel being harder to pack.

First point, Lucid is quite forgiving and even those with noted Noir issues, have no problems with Lucid. Point the second, people try to apply their current knowledge of packing towards Tangiers and get bad results. Tangiers isn't harder to pack...it just requires a different method. Third, the phunnel takes about as much effort to pack as a standard egyptian, except you don't have to worry about blocking the airflow by packing too tightly.
[/quote]

Exactly. Totally agreed. Since you're not having to worry about blocking holes, doesn't that make the phunnel easier to pack? And yes, every beginner to Tangiers should start with Lucid. Noir often turns away newbies. Lucid shows them how great Tangiers can be in terms of flavor and cloudage, and then the next step up is Noir, which adds the bigger buzz, and (arguably) even better flavor. I feel that Lucid has a better flavor because it doesn't have that slight tobacco taste to it. Also, buzz doesn't matter to me. Most of the time I smoke Noir, it doesn't buzz me anyway. So I usually stick to Lucid, but I'm no stranger to Noir.

Chicago- Was your first session, the first time you used a regular mod or Egyptian bowl with a brand other than Tangiers, as good as what you can do now? I doubt it. I know my first couple weeks to month or so of smoking was hella bad compared to the kind of sessions I have these days, whether its Tangiers or not. My point is- there's a learning curve to both methods. Doesn't matter which method you start out with, because both take a bit of learning and skill development to perfect and get you to the point where it's ultimately satisfying.

[Chreees]

[quote name='Arcane' timestamp='1319756846' post='529168']
[quote name='Hassouni' timestamp='1319732669' post='529099']
Also, it's not that Tangiers is harder or easier, but there's less margin for error. As others have said, and as Jay (Arcane) has shown in his awesome video, you can smack Nakhla in a bowl and do anything to it and it'll smoke. Tangiers is not like that.[/quote]Yeah, Nakhla's great. I've actually adopted a packing method similar to the one in the video. It's a lot cleaner too.

1. Plow superchief or egyptian bowl through container and stand bowl upright.
2. Foil over
3. Poke holes w/ semi sharp object. [b]I've been using my fingernail lately.[/b]
4. Add coals
5. ???
6. Profit!
[/quote]

LMAO! The Jay packing method improves!

Here's the video for those who asked:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te7ydKLgttk&list=FL5it5IKnNUaxNFx9kPcV94Q&feature=mh_lolz[/media]

Yes Jay, I favorited that shit, so it's forever mine!!!

[vendetta_revived]

[quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1319757304' post='529170']
[quote name='Arcane' timestamp='1319756846' post='529168']
[quote name='Hassouni' timestamp='1319732669' post='529099']
Also, it's not that Tangiers is harder or easier, but there's less margin for error. As others have said, and as Jay (Arcane) has shown in his awesome video, you can smack Nakhla in a bowl and do anything to it and it'll smoke. Tangiers is not like that.[/quote]Yeah, Nakhla's great. I've actually adopted a packing method similar to the one in the video. It's a lot cleaner too.

1. Plow superchief or egyptian bowl through container and stand bowl upright.
2. Foil over
3. Poke holes w/ semi sharp object. [b]I've been using my fingernail lately.[/b]
4. Add coals
5. ???
6. Profit!
[/quote]

LMAO! The Jay packing method improves!

Here's the video for those who asked:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te7ydKLgttk&list=FL5it5IKnNUaxNFx9kPcV94Q&feature=mh_lolz[/media]

Yes Jay, I favorited that shit, so it's forever mine!!!
[/quote]

Okay, that was just awesome! Hahaha!

[ChicagoRSX]

[quote name='Arcane' timestamp='1319755876' post='529167']
[quote name='ChicagoRSX' timestamp='1319754357' post='529165']
I voted no simply for this reason.[color=#ff0000][b] My first session using the Tangiers phunnel was lack luster due to lack of experience obviously. I have no problem admitting that.[/b][/color] I got some flavor, and had smoke, but overall just didn't get the big deal. I then on a whim packed my Crown Classic with it and was floored by how robust the flavor was. Really made me want to keep perfecting my Tang phunnel so I could see this great smoking experience everyone talks about. Had I just bought the Tang phunnel, I might have said f-it, this shit is just over rated.But due to the flavor I got off the Crown Classic, I had to press on and try to master the Tang phunnel.

[/quote]The flaw in that logic is that you're attributing the failure to Tangiers, not to the user. People who say, "Tangiers isn't great. It doesn't smoke well" actually mean, "I don't know what I'm doing, so I'll blame the tobacco.".
[/quote]

Actually, I'm pretty sure I admitted that my so-so experience was due to lack of experience on my part. And we are talking about newbies and their first experiences correct? I'm taking into account people who don't join this forum and get help from it's members. But lets face it, most people in society today aren't going to try and try again, especially if they aren't a part of a community such as this, they will throw the shisha out, and smoke something they have always had good luck with.


[quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1319757043' post='529169']
[quote name='Arcane' timestamp='1319755876' post='529167']
[quote name='ChicagoRSX' timestamp='1319754357' post='529165']
I voted no simply for this reason. My first session using the Tangiers phunnel was lack luster due to lack of experience obviously. I have no problem admitting that. I got some flavor, and had smoke, but overall just didn't get the big deal. I then on a whim packed my Crown Classic with it and was floored by how robust the flavor was. Really made me want to keep perfecting my Tang phunnel so I could see this great smoking experience everyone talks about. Had I just bought the Tang phunnel, I might have said f-it, this shit is just over rated.But due to the flavor I got off the Crown Classic, I had to press on and try to master the Tang phunnel.
[/quote]The flaw in that logic is that you're attributing the failure to Tangiers, not to the user. People who say, "Tangiers isn't great. It doesn't smoke well" actually mean, "I don't know what I'm doing, so I'll blame the tobacco."

I alsodisagree with both points the OP made about Tangiers not being easy to smoke and the phunnel being harder to pack.

First point, Lucid is quite forgiving and even those with noted Noir issues, have no problems with Lucid. Point the second, people try to apply their current knowledge of packing towards Tangiers and get bad results. Tangiers isn't harder to pack...it just requires a different method. Third, the phunnel takes about as much effort to pack as a standard egyptian, except you don't have to worry about blocking the airflow by packing too tightly.
[/quote]

Exactly. Totally agreed. Since you're not having to worry about blocking holes, doesn't that make the phunnel easier to pack? And yes, every beginner to Tangiers should start with Lucid. Noir often turns away newbies. Lucid shows them how great Tangiers can be in terms of flavor and cloudage, and then the next step up is Noir, which adds the bigger buzz, and (arguably) even better flavor. I feel that Lucid has a better flavor because it doesn't have that slight tobacco taste to it. Also, buzz doesn't matter to me. Most of the time I smoke Noir, it doesn't buzz me anyway. So I usually stick to Lucid, but I'm no stranger to Noir.

Chicago- Was your first session, the first time you used a regular mod or Egyptian bowl with a brand other than Tangiers, as good as what you can do now? I doubt it. I know my first couple weeks to month or so of smoking was hella bad compared to the kind of sessions I have these days, whether its Tangiers or not. My point is- there's a learning curve to both methods. Doesn't matter which method you start out with, because both take a bit of learning and skill development to perfect and get you to the point where it's ultimately satisfying.
[/quote]

I understand Chris, but I'm talking overall. My first time with Tangiers was a train wreck compared to what it is now. First time became very harsh, very quick. To the point where I was coughing on every draw. I never had that issue with anything else, regardless of my level of skill. That's all I meant. Don't get me wrong,I thoroughly love Tangiers.

[grock]

That video is so awesome, gonna have to try that method.



But on the topic of the thread, I didn't vote at all, on account of I don't agree on either end of the spectrum.

The part I agree with, is recommending phunnels to new users. They are simple to pack, and make the smoke so much more enjoyable on account of more flavorful, bigger clouds, and lasts longer. I think everyone should use one.

However, the part I disagree with, even though I am a fan of the product, is recommending Tangiers to beginners. Now I say this not because it is hard to pack, but just on account of it can be a pain to acclimate properly. Its just a hassle that other brands have the convenience of not having to do.
Plus, there are far more flavors and brands besides Tangiers that are awesome to smoke. My stash of shisha doesn't comprise of only one brand, its a variation, because all have their pros and cons. I love Nak, Af, Tangiers, Social Smoke, and Romman. Its really had to go wrong I think.