The Goza unfan club

[dizzbizz]

So the metals in the hoses and the length of the hose is what decreases buzz? Why dont we all just stick bamboo sticks into our hose ports and [quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1329581674' post='539448']
[quote name='dizzbizz' timestamp='1329531897' post='539379']
I'm confused, if its the lack of distance between bowl and hose that gives the big buzz, wouldn't my Mya petite give me the same[b] huge[/b] buzz?
[/quote]

how long is the hose though?
[/quote]
Its a regular six foot long hose. I'm gonna use my Nu hose and see if this gives me a[b] huge[/b] buzz since its not leather, nor does it contain metals. If this doesn't work, and by using your facts, I should be able to smoke with my mouth onto the hose port and eliminate virtually any distance between myself and the pipe so I can get a [b]huge[/b] buzz. I will report later.

[Chreees]

[quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1329617342' post='539526']
[quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1329275393' post='539046']
I wish Eric would join in on this discussion, but I know he's a busy man. He would have all the answers.
[/quote]

Well I smoke to THE MAN himself today for awhile on the physics of the Goza. Turns out its not magic :/ There is a scientific reason for the increased buzz associated with the Goza.

Question: Why is there an increased buzz when smoking out of a Goza?

Answer: The short distance from the bowl to the body leads to an increased buzz along with the chemical composition of the pathway.

Facts:
-Carbon Monoxide (CO) produced by vaporizing tobacco gives the user a buzz along with nicotine.
-Copper and Brass (which is a Copper alloy) interact with CO and cause a chemical reaction with turns CO into Carbon Dioxide (CO2)
- CO2 does not cause a buzz
- A narrow pathway means more surface area over the vapor
- A longer pathway gives particles a chance to reconstitute and settle in the pathway before reaching the body
- Higher heat vaporizes more particles
- Leather cools vapor


In a KM Goza, CO from vaporized hookah tobacco reacts very little with the metal in the pipe, does not react at all in the bamboo, and the vaporized materials have less time to reconstitute (therefore the vaporized particles do not get caught in the pipe/water/bamboo).

In a typical hookah pipe there is a longer pathway which gives the particles an opportunity to get reconstituted and settle before reaching the body. If the stem is made of Copper/Brass the CO will turn into CO2 and loose buzz causing properties. In addition, some hoses are made with metal coils that may further react with the CO containing vapor and increase the CO2 that reaches the body while diminishing the CO. Further, the more narrow a stem and/or hose the more surface area touches the vapor.

So if you are smoking out of a taller pipe the opportunity for "buzz causing vapor" to reach the body is reduced. It is further reduced if you are using a hose with coils containing metal that reacts with CO. If you are smoking out of a pipe that also has a stem containing a Copper/Brass the buzz causing vapor reacts even more and causes less buzz. The more narrow the vapors pathway is through the Copper/Brass stem/hose the more reaction it will have with the end result being less of a buzz.

If you replace a hose containing a reactive metal with a leather hose the reactivity goes down but the leather aids in cooling the vapor and reconstituting the particles allowing them to solidify and get caught in the hose.

Materials used in the pipe and hose potentially filter the vapor more than the water itself.

Question: How does this affect flavor?

Answer: Some flavor compounds are reactive with Copper/Brass and will lose their potency when they interact. Additionally, some flavor particles will reconstitute given the longer pathway and not be able to reach the body. Flavors used for hookah tobacco contain many compounds with various chemical profiles. Therefor flavor profiles are variable as the different modes of delivery are changed.
[/quote]

Spoke? Funny how the mistype made such a relevant word.

Thanks for detailing Eric's long-winded answer for us. That's how I know it's from Eric. Anyway, this is what I've been waiting for, some sort of (more scientific?) explanation as to what exactly causes the increased buzz. Please tell Eric I appreciate him taking the time to answer our question. I'm sure others do as well. Perhaps I'll have to try one someday, but as for buying it, I don't smoke for the buzz, and I don't need to be able to carry it around with me in my hand.

[joytron]

[quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1329623010' post='539535']
[quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1329617342' post='539526']
[quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1329275393' post='539046']
I wish Eric would join in on this discussion, but I know he's a busy man. He would have all the answers.
[/quote]

Well I smoke to THE MAN himself today for awhile on the physics of the Goza. Turns out its not magic :/ There is a scientific reason for the increased buzz associated with the Goza.

Question: Why is there an increased buzz when smoking out of a Goza?

Answer: The short distance from the bowl to the body leads to an increased buzz along with the chemical composition of the pathway.

Facts:
-Carbon Monoxide (CO) produced by vaporizing tobacco gives the user a buzz along with nicotine.
-Copper and Brass (which is a Copper alloy) interact with CO and cause a chemical reaction with turns CO into Carbon Dioxide (CO2)
- CO2 does not cause a buzz
- A narrow pathway means more surface area over the vapor
- A longer pathway gives particles a chance to reconstitute and settle in the pathway before reaching the body
- Higher heat vaporizes more particles
- Leather cools vapor


In a KM Goza, CO from vaporized hookah tobacco reacts very little with the metal in the pipe, does not react at all in the bamboo, and the vaporized materials have less time to reconstitute (therefore the vaporized particles do not get caught in the pipe/water/bamboo).

In a typical hookah pipe there is a longer pathway which gives the particles an opportunity to get reconstituted and settle before reaching the body. If the stem is made of Copper/Brass the CO will turn into CO2 and loose buzz causing properties. In addition, some hoses are made with metal coils that may further react with the CO containing vapor and increase the CO2 that reaches the body while diminishing the CO. Further, the more narrow a stem and/or hose the more surface area touches the vapor.

So if you are smoking out of a taller pipe the opportunity for "buzz causing vapor" to reach the body is reduced. It is further reduced if you are using a hose with coils containing metal that reacts with CO. If you are smoking out of a pipe that also has a stem containing a Copper/Brass the buzz causing vapor reacts even more and causes less buzz. The more narrow the vapors pathway is through the Copper/Brass stem/hose the more reaction it will have with the end result being less of a buzz.

If you replace a hose containing a reactive metal with a leather hose the reactivity goes down but the leather aids in cooling the vapor and reconstituting the particles allowing them to solidify and get caught in the hose.

Materials used in the pipe and hose potentially filter the vapor more than the water itself.

Question: How does this affect flavor?

Answer: Some flavor compounds are reactive with Copper/Brass and will lose their potency when they interact. Additionally, some flavor particles will reconstitute given the longer pathway and not be able to reach the body. Flavors used for hookah tobacco contain many compounds with various chemical profiles. Therefor flavor profiles are variable as the different modes of delivery are changed.
[/quote]

Spoke? Funny how the mistype made such a relevant word.

Thanks for detailing Eric's long-winded answer for us. That's how I know it's from Eric. Anyway, this is what I've been waiting for, some sort of (more scientific?) explanation as to what exactly causes the increased buzz. Please tell Eric I appreciate him taking the time to answer our question. I'm sure others do as well. Perhaps I'll have to try one someday, but as for buying it, I don't smoke for the buzz, and I don't need to be able to carry it around with me in my hand.
[/quote]

Does Eric feel that these changes would actually cause a noticeable impact on the buzz?

[vendetta_revived]

Does anyone know what metal is the QT stem made of? Because by this reasoning, if I take pulls directly from it's hose port, then I should get a bigger buzz, relatively.

[mushrat]

Now, for a bunch of people not interested in a buzz, y'all are asking a lot of questions about how to get a bigger one.

Erics explanation is how it COULD give you a bigger buzz. This is not to say it WILL. As i have already stated i didnt notice much of a difference when i smoked my goza so im sure it also depends on the person. so please continue as you see fit, but id say a lot of people need to be appologizing about now for acting like asses.

[Chreees]

[quote name='mushrat' timestamp='1329659891' post='539576']
Now, for a bunch of people not interested in a buzz, y'all are asking a lot of questions about how to get a bigger one.

Erics explanation is how it COULD give you a bigger buzz. This is not to say it WILL. As i have already stated i didnt notice much of a difference when i smoked my goza so im sure it also depends on the person. so please continue as you see fit, but id say a lot of people need to be appologizing about now for acting like asses.
[/quote]

I may not be interested in obtaining a bigger buzz, but does that mean I cannot seek to understand the reasoning behind why the Goza gives a bigger one? Seems only natural to inquire about such a thing, especially since there's only so much to talk about when it comes to hookah.

Just curious... Have I acted like an ass throughout this discussion? To me this whole thing has just been like any other thread, a good topic for discussion. I think I'm missing something here...

[vendetta_revived]

[quote name='mushrat' timestamp='1329659891' post='539576']
Now, for a bunch of people not interested in a buzz, y'all are asking a lot of questions about how to get a bigger one.

Erics explanation is how it COULD give you a bigger buzz. This is not to say it WILL. As i have already stated i didnt notice much of a difference when i smoked my goza so im sure it also depends on the person. so please continue as you see fit, but id say a lot of people need to be appologizing about now for acting like asses.
[/quote]

I am actually looking for a bigger buzz...just can't afford the goza.

[Coyote]

[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1329649023' post='539570']
Does Eric feel that these changes would actually cause a noticeable impact on the buzz?
[/quote]

Yes.

[quote name='vendetta_revived' timestamp='1329658842' post='539575']
Does anyone know what metal is the QT stem made of? Because by this reasoning, if I take pulls directly from it's hose port, then I should get a bigger buzz, relatively.
[/quote]

Its Stainless Steel I believe. Stainless Steel is made with different amounts of different metals. Generally speaking, Stainless Steel has little to no reactivity. Keep in mind also that high concentrations of CO in the blood can lead to vary harmful results... so yeah you might get a killer buzz (literally) if you smoke too much out of the hose port .

[Coyote]

[quote name='mushrat' timestamp='1329659891' post='539576']
As i have already stated i didnt notice much of a difference when i smoked my goza so im sure it also depends on the person.
[/quote]

I think I remember you saying that it was brass? Highly reactive. But, yes, it also depends on the person.

[Floataround]

I also feel like trying to compare the bamboo to a hose port is a little different. You can smoke comfortably using the bamboo. I doubt you could be able to get a real seal as well as a real pull comfortably from a hose port on a QT

Edited February 19, 2012 by Floataround

[mustang67n]

I'm almost afraid to post in this thread anymore for fear to offend people.. BUT i grew some balls (and drank some whiskey) tonight, and figured fucket.. lets throw some thoughts and opinions out there..

goza buzz = CO poisoning IMO
logically in the amount of time and the bamboo actually not "filtering" anything (the smoke isnt going THROUGH anything, simply INSIDE the hose) and neither does lambskin or goat skin or leather, or PVC or w/e your hose is made out of.. if you think that your hose, in the short amount of time the smoke is in there is filtering anything.. then god bless you're precious simple mind.
there is no filtering going on. if anything, MAYBE contaminants (ie. nicotine, etc,) is CLINGING to the walls of the hose. which breaks down to a chemical level, which then would make sense that the plastic, PVC, etc. hoses have the same likelihood of filtering contaminants as a porous hose such as a leather or bamboo, or wood hose.
regardless, I'd say it's safe to say without proper testing, this argument (on both sides) is null. W/o facts, you're simply speculating. When one of you gets a fancy microscope and shows me nicotine levels actually HIGHER on the inside of your leather hose compared to your plastic, bamboo, w/e hose. then I'll omit it as possible fact. untill then.. We've heard it 30 times in these goza arguements.. ENOUGH!
so that nullifies the "filtration" hypothesis until further (probably never happening) testing..

as for the buzz coming form a shorter draw (straight from hose port or bamboo hose)
this would makes sense, only if your hose were filtering anything (see above) and if you're hose leaks. if hose leaks.. fix and achieve buzz w/o the need for bamboo

OOOOOOKay.
I don't know much about the designs of gozas.. but they look to have less water in the base than most pipes we're used too (standard egyptian bases)

this leads my reasoning to say that the only lingering factor is the smaller amount of water for the smoke to pass through. There have been tests that say the nicotine doesn't get filtered by the water (same tests we all despise and pass to the side as false) if they are false, then the water level has nothing to do with this either. THUS leading that the goza's in fact, do NOT give a higher buzz..

however.. if these filtering ideas (both the water and the hose) do have fact behind them.. then they are both valid points (however unlikely, and with no way of proving it, uncertain, like.. ever) with them being valid points, then gozas = moar buzz with less filtration

in the end... no way to prove either side...
you could test it by smoking a goza and judging the buzz, then smoking your regular pipe and judging the buzz, then smoking your regular pipe from the hose port and judging the buzz... but then it's still your opinion of the buzz

soooooooo no way to prove it.. regardless.. goza haters,, try it. if more buzz.. you lose, if same buzz, you win. (in your own heads at least)

I dont like the gozas, i think they're ugly.. I DGAF about the buzz factor.. or the bamboo (although i like pavo/erica's bamboo hoses ) i just dont like the pipes..

and regardless of that.. i think you're all dumb for debating the possible and unprovable 'buzz' factor of the goza for 6 pages of thread space.

/ thread

[gramps]

I would want to see a scientific study where samples of smoke were taken at various places from bowl to hose tip, and the results of a chemical analysis of those samples. Without such a scientific study, all we have is a hypothesis.

[mustang67n]

+1 to gramps.. STFU with your repetative hypothesizing IMO..
it's irritating and migrane inducing..

now, i've been drinking for 10 hours straight. and I dont need no headache right now! lol

no, but in all seriousness guys.. stop repeating yourselves..

[king_lunchb0x]

I haven't said much on this subject, but I feel like the goza is a decent pipe,portable but still solid. The whole buzz thing i think is just really hard to prove whether it works or it doesn't.
Personally im not a fan of the goza. But its just not my taste. U like it, great i Don't have beef with that. You say it gives you bigger buzz well I dont have beef with that either, Until I try it I just wouldn't know.

[Hassouni]

Eric's explanation makes a lot of sense. I didn't know about the metal/reaction stuff, but I was thinking the short travel distance had something to do with less filtering.

[mushrat]

Well, since some folks seem to think being mocking and insulting is acceptable behavior i guess ill have
To make my own determinations. When i get home ill deecide who needs some time for personal comtemplation.

[joytron]

I think the longer the time it takes to travel the more opportunity it has for the CO to react with Oxygen creating CO2 and that its not really about the CO "clinging" to the walls of the hose.

On another not the copper should only be reacting with CO if its oxidizing, so the shift from CO to CO2 will actually reduce the oxidization process. This means smoking helps keep your pipes clean.

CuO + CO----Cu CO2

Still surprised that the time it takes for the smoke to travel on a goza vs another pipe actually has anything greater than a negligible impact.

[gramps]

There's also the interaction between the CO and the water in the vase. Both CO and CO2 are somewhat soluble in water.

[cotsi95]

[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1329695819' post='539616']
There's also the interaction between the CO and the water in the vase. Both CO and CO2 are somewhat soluble in water.
[/quote]

So is nicotine.

And nate there has been study's done and if I recall correctly something like 10-15% of the nicotine stays in the hose and mouth tip. A leather hose will absorb that nicotine over time where as a plastic one will not. That being said a bamboo hose should absorb some as well but to what degree I dont know.

[mustang67n]

Seee! finally we has some numbers and facts floating around in here. yaaaay

[Epoch]

I hope I'm not the only one who isn't interested in the Goza's buzz factor...

[cotsi95]

The absorbing of the leather/ non washable hoses is why they break down and why i personally believe they "ghost" more.

[IainUM]

i still don't like how they look. that is my main deterrent from them. that and the fact that you can't just set it down anywhere. i don't care about the buzz at all, cause i rarely ever want the buzz feeling, i just do it for the social aspects and the taste.

i am not a fan

[EAK1791]

[quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1329617342' post='539526']
[quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1329275393' post='539046']
I wish Eric would join in on this discussion, but I know he's a busy man. He would have all the answers.
[/quote]

Eric's long winded explanation.
[/quote]

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I'm getting a goza myself, so I mean no ill will towards it. But assuming the part about the reactivity of the metal is correct, would it not be counteracted somewhat by the fact that the base is also metal? Sure, it does come in contact with less reactive metal, in the stem, but a higher percentage of the surfaces it comes in contact with, (100%, sans bamboo) is said reactive metal.

[Rani]

[quote name='Epoch' timestamp='1329712481' post='539648']
I hope I'm not the only one who isn't interested in the Goza's buzz factor...
[/quote]

Nope. I've never found a nicotine buzz to be remotely relaxing. The rare times I've had one it seems you go from feeling entirely normal to room spins in about 15 seconds flat. Not a feeling I would covet. Luckily for me, I seem to have a high tolerance that's been worked on through large amounts of Nakhla and Tangiers Noir. Never get a buzz at all anymore. Still need tequila for that!

'Rani