So Birth Control Makes Me A What?

[gramps]

Rush has a good explanation on his website.
[url="http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/03/07/clearing_up_misinformation_on_our_sponsors"]http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/03/07/clearing_up_misinformation_on_our_sponsors[/url]

You should also read Isaiah 9:10 and then search for Rabbi Jonathan Cahn's explanation of this harbinger. There are several videos of him being interviewed about it.

[Christopher Mason Taylor]

[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331111163' post='541640']
I'm not opposed to birth control, but don't ask me to pay for it. I'm not saying that from any religious viewpoint; I simply don't want to pay for somebody else's stuff, whether through taxes or increases premiums for my insurance. I have my own bills to pay for already. What else should society be obligated to pay for simply because somebody demands it? A new car? Designer clothes? Has anybody heard of personal responsibility?[/quote]

You want personal responsibility in the sense you're talking about it? Go live on an island by yourself. This is what society is: coming together to support one another, and taking mutual responsibility for the world around us. We don't live in a country where the libertarian ideal is realistically possible anymore. Ever driven on a road? Ever been helped by a paramedic, or a firefighter? Ever lived in a neighborhood or town with police, who keep the peace? Ever gone to a public school? Ever been to a park, or a library? Those things are provided by society. We came together and we agreed that they were worth having, so we contributed. No one is an island.

[quote]The woman in question is attending a Catholic university. She knew full well before she enrolled what their view was. She's just stirring the pot and creating a stink to advance her agenda.[/quote]

Religious exemptions for laws just breed insanity ad infinitum. Period.

[quote]It's like attending a Muslim university and demanding that they serve ham sandwiches in the cafeteria.[/quote]

This is a health issue, not "what I prefer to have for lunch" issue. And you know that.

[quote]And I still can't figure out how a person smart enough to be in law school doesn't know that you can get free birth control in 75% of the counties in this country simply be going to the health department.
[/quote]

Again, this nonsensical conflation between condoms and the pill. They aren't the same, even by a long shot. They don't do the same things. They don't even entirely serve the same purpose.

[Christopher Mason Taylor]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1331230425' post='541815']
The question at hand is weather a religious owned, and run institution should be forced to provide their money to pay for something contrary to their long published beliefs.
[/quote]

Insurance is compensation they're giving to their employees for work performed, just like salary is. When you compensate your employee, that isn't your money anymore.

[Christopher Mason Taylor]

[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331334632' post='541960']
An even bigger backlash has started against the sponsers who dropped Limbaugh. Watch most of them come back to him in the next few months, albeit under the radar. That's too big an audience to ignore. Feel-good political statements are one thing; the bottom line is another. Rush's listeners are better educated than your typical CNN or MSNBC audience; they are also more affluent so advertisers get a real bang for their buck.
[/quote]

Oh, really. I'd love to see the data on these claims. First, that CNN and MSNBC have the same audiences. And second, that Limbaugh's is better educated. Oh wait, you have absolutely no data for that; you just made it up on the spot! Bravo.

EDIT:




[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331337826' post='541966']
It always has been, and not just in our country and time. All the more reason for faith and spirituality.

This country is about to suffer a long-overdue judgment. There's very little time left to prevent it.
[/quote]

I retract my earlier statement; you're a fanatic. Reason, evidence and data are just not your concern. Edited March 14, 2012 by Christopher Mason Taylor

[Christopher Mason Taylor]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1331361832' post='542019']
[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331337826' post='541966']
It always has been, and not just in our country and time. All the more reason for faith and spirituality.

This country is about to suffer a long-overdue judgment. There's very little time left to prevent it.
[/quote]

The difference is that now the same tactics the progressives have used against us for years are now being used back at those same progressives, and with great success. I love it! The days of the average conservative thinking they are isolated, of one of a very few are gone. Years ago no one would have prusued fluke's prior statements, nor who is actually pulling her puppet-strings, but thanks to the eternal nature of the internet, it comes out that she is being "managed" by an obama-goon, and mao lover, Anita Dunn, then "represented" by SKD/Knickerbocker. Ya, sure, little miss victim. Please, save me from another manufactured-victim from the left. You believe her BS, you are one dim bulb.

I don't think there is any time left to prevent the inevitable. Where this mess goes from here is going to be interesting those of us that enjoy the study of modern history, and cultural interaction.
[/quote]

I think you're confusing "modern history" with paranoid delusions and conspiracy theories. Those things can be engrossing; though only in the same way that peeking at a train wreck is.

[joytron]

[quote name='Christopher Mason Taylor' timestamp='1331697808' post='542458']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1331361832' post='542019']
[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331337826' post='541966']
It always has been, and not just in our country and time. All the more reason for faith and spirituality.

This country is about to suffer a long-overdue judgment. There's very little time left to prevent it.
[/quote]

The difference is that now the same tactics the progressives have used against us for years are now being used back at those same progressives, and with great success. I love it! The days of the average conservative thinking they are isolated, of one of a very few are gone. Years ago no one would have prusued fluke's prior statements, nor who is actually pulling her puppet-strings, but thanks to the eternal nature of the internet, it comes out that she is being "managed" by an obama-goon, and mao lover, Anita Dunn, then "represented" by SKD/Knickerbocker. Ya, sure, little miss victim. Please, save me from another manufactured-victim from the left. You believe her BS, you are one dim bulb.

I don't think there is any time left to prevent the inevitable. Where this mess goes from here is going to be interesting those of us that enjoy the study of modern history, and cultural interaction.
[/quote]

I think you're confusing "modern history" with paranoid delusions and conspiracy theories. Those things can be engrossing; though only in the same way that peeking at a train wreck is.
[/quote][quote name='Christopher Mason Taylor' timestamp='1331697808' post='542458']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1331361832' post='542019']
[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331337826' post='541966']
It always has been, and not just in our country and time. All the more reason for faith and spirituality.

This country is about to suffer a long-overdue judgment. There's very little time left to prevent it.
[/quote]

The difference is that now the same tactics the progressives have used against us for years are now being used back at those same progressives, and with great success. I love it! The days of the average conservative thinking they are isolated, of one of a very few are gone. Years ago no one would have prusued fluke's prior statements, nor who is actually pulling her puppet-strings, but thanks to the eternal nature of the internet, it comes out that she is being "managed" by an obama-goon, and mao lover, Anita Dunn, then "represented" by SKD/Knickerbocker. Ya, sure, little miss victim. Please, save me from another manufactured-victim from the left. You believe her BS, you are one dim bulb.

I don't think there is any time left to prevent the inevitable. Where this mess goes from here is going to be interesting those of us that enjoy the study of modern history, and cultural interaction.
[/quote]

I think you're confusing "modern history" with paranoid delusions and conspiracy theories. Those things can be engrossing; though only in the same way that peeking at a train wreck is.
[/quote]

Speaking about peeking at a train wreck, things are finally starting to get interesting.

[Christopher Mason Taylor]

[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1331698726' post='542461']

Speaking about peeking at a train wreck, things are finally starting to get interesting.
[/quote]

Perhaps I began my posting here on a bit of an intense foot. I apologize for my "fanatic" remark. That was uncalled for.

[gramps]

Apology accepted.

And you obviously have no idea how advertising on radio works.

[Rani]

[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331713228' post='542487']
Apology accepted.

And you obviously have no idea how advertising on radio works.
[/quote]

Now did you have to throw that last bit in there? Comes off as snarky considering he apologized without being prodded and you accepted. Plus he brought some interesting points to the conversation like insurance being part of compensation, etc. One "Woo-Hoo!" on that for the new kid.

'Rani

[Rani]

[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331375199' post='542025']
Rush has a good explanation on his website.
[url="http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/03/07/clearing_up_misinformation_on_our_sponsors"]http://www.rushlimba...on_our_sponsors[/url]

You should also read Isaiah 9:10 and then search for Rabbi Jonathan Cahn's explanation of this harbinger. There are several videos of him being interviewed about it.
[/quote]

I took a couple days to calm down after reading this post gramps because I've actually read The Harbinger and looked over what's known about Jonathan Cahn. And frankly if we were in the Second Inquistion, Jonathan Cahn would be Witchfinder General. He believes nothing but his brand of Christianity has any value at all.

Sure as Americans we want America to survive. But from the view of say, God, why? Our souls have no more value than the souls of Afghans, or Iraqi, or French, or anybody else from the point of view of God. This nation is just one other nation in a world of many and we are not more inherently right or wrong than either of them. Empires ascend, and they fall, and so eventually will this one. I'd rather it didn't happen in my lifetime, but I don't have that choice. If it does, I'll do the same as everyone else, try and live through it best I can while keeping to my moral ground. But to think God would favor a nation which is no more than a soulless government run machine like a clockwork figure of gears and cogs? No. God would care about individual souls. Not the nations those souls live within. Because that's just bureaucracy. And nothing at all to do with the spirit.

'Rani

[littlec]

[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331111163' post='541640']
I'm not opposed to birth control, but don't ask me to pay for it. I'm not saying that from any religious viewpoint; I simply don't want to pay for somebody else's stuff, whether through taxes or increases premiums for my insurance. I have my own bills to pay for already. What else should society be obligated to pay for simply because somebody demands it? A new car? Designer clothes? Has anybody heard of personal responsibility?

The woman in question is attending a Catholic university. She knew full well before she enrolled what their view was. She's just stirring the pot and creating a stink to advance her agenda. It's like attending a Muslim university and demanding that they serve ham sandwiches in the cafeteria. And I still can't figure out how a person smart enough to be in law school doesn't know that you can get free birth control in 75% of the counties in this country simply be going to the health department.
[/quote]

This


ALSO BIRTH CONTROL MAKES YOU A BABY MURDERING WHORE


/not

[Christopher Mason Taylor]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1331738825' post='542503']
[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331713228' post='542487']
Apology accepted.

And you obviously have no idea how advertising on radio works.
[/quote]

Now did you have to throw that last bit in there? Comes off as snarky considering he apologized without being prodded and you accepted. Plus he brought some interesting points to the conversation like insurance being part of compensation, etc. One "Woo-Hoo!" on that for the new kid.

'Rani
[/quote]

I appreciate the defense, but truly, I don't mind that he put that last bit in there. It was just another unsupported assertion, designed to dodge everything else I'd said.

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Christopher Mason Taylor' timestamp='1331697391' post='542455']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1331230425' post='541815']
The question at hand is weather a religious owned, and run institution should be forced to provide their money to pay for something contrary to their long published beliefs.
[/quote]

Insurance is compensation they're giving to their employees for work performed, just like salary is. When you compensate your employee, that isn't your money anymore.
[/quote]

It's a student policy at an education institution. Your comment makes absolutely jack for sense. Compensation for employees? You are just spewing liberal talking points from the DNC, nearly verbatim. Hard to take that for more than propaganda.

[gramps]

I've been in these discussions before. Yes, I could give links to sources and back up everything I said, but the response would be that they're not valid or reliable sources, or they're extrememly biased sources. Anybody can find whatever they want on the net. I don't believe your sources any more than you would believe mine. It's a waste of time we could all spend smoking.

[Christopher Mason Taylor]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1331769834' post='542573']
It's a student policy at an education institution. Your comment makes absolutely jack for sense. Compensation for employees? You are just spewing liberal talking points from the DNC, nearly verbatim. Hard to take that for more than propaganda.
[/quote]

Apparently you're ONLY talking about Sandra Fluke's comments on student health care. I'm talking about the law re: religious employers generally. If you want to talk about student health plans specifically, which were paid for by (among other things) her tuition fees, then that's an entirely different ball game.

Or you could just continue to ignore arguments and scream "liberal liberal liberal" as if it's a dirty word. Your choice.

[Christopher Mason Taylor]

[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331773338' post='542583']
I've been in these discussions before. Yes, I could give links to sources and back up everything I said, but the response would be that they're not valid or reliable sources, or they're extrememly biased sources. [/quote]

There are plenty of reliable polling agencies out there, generally trusted by people on the left and right. But given that AM radio doesn't have a method of tracking its listeners, I am very, very skeptical of the claim that anyone has conducted a serious, scientifically rigorous intelligence & education comparison between Rush Limbaugh's listeners and viewers of CNN or MSNBC, let alone both lumped together.

[quote]Anybody can find whatever they want on the net. I don't believe your sources any more than you would believe mine. It's a waste of time we could all spend smoking.
[/quote]

The difference is, you're the one who made claims, and have the burden of proof.

And I'm happy to smoke and discuss things at the same time, but you're right, if we can't have an honest, evidence-based discussion, it is pointless.

[Kathrynx]

At this time I would like to put this here as a friendly reminder/warning for this touchy subject in the Serious Discussion Forum:

[b][color=#7F7F7F][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Rule #1 Maintain a civil manner and tone. This is a friendly forum with a wide variety of people from lots of different places. We will not all agree on issues. Feel free to express yourself, but name calling, personal insults, and baiting will not be tolerated. Profanity is permitted in it's proper context.[/size][/font][/color][/b][b][color=#7F7F7F][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3] [/size][/font][/color][/b]

[Rani]

Now why would her health insurance be paid for in tuition when for another two years health insurance is selective? And as of right now students would be on their parents policy through age 26? Plus if a student were paying for it in tuition, then we're back to the fact that if the student is paying then the student should be able to choose a policy which covers her birth control? So once again we have a private company choosing to enforce something they're not paying for, don't we?

'Rani

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1331779385' post='542612']
Now why would her health insurance be paid for in tuition when for another two years health insurance is selective? And as of right now students would be on their parents policy through age 26? Plus if a student were paying for it in tuition, then we're back to the fact that if the student is paying then the student should be able to choose a policy which covers her birth control? So once again we have a private company choosing to enforce something they're not paying for, don't we?

'Rani
[/quote]

On parents policy only if they chose to leave them there. Some may not.

I would bet the dioceses is subsidizing the group plan. Students may be paying, but I guarantee the school is paying part of it in some way. After all, she IS free to get a policy anywhere, why does she seem to think she has to buy the group plan from the school?

I keep coming back to a point where I just think that insurance is something you buy to pay for unexpected losses, damage, sickness, or injury, not something you buy and expect it to pay for routine expenses. At what point did we come to think that an "insurance" plan that we buy for XXX$ a month was going to pay more than the premium amount in regular routine benefits?

The average American needs to wise up, and figure out that they are responsible for their own expenses. Bunch of freeloading people that can't possibly be inconvenienced to pay their own bills.

[Christopher Mason Taylor]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1331781937' post='542625']I keep coming back to a point where I just think that insurance is something you buy to pay for unexpected losses, damage, sickness, or injury, not something you buy and expect it to pay for routine expenses. At what point did we come to think that an "insurance" plan that we buy for XXX$ a month was going to pay more than the premium amount in regular routine benefits?
[/quote]

Health insurance has evolved differently than other insurances. The reason for this is that preventive medicine is much more cost-effective than the alternative of simply solving problems after the fact. If insurance companies can encourage their customers to make good health decisions, they don't have to shell out as much for major problems in the long run. It's not like electronics insurance where you either drop/break your device or you don't. This is why many of them have things like co-pays for regular checkups and why many of them already cover birth control pills, which do a good bit more than simply prevent pregnancy.

[joytron]

Dental insurance? I routinely go in for a cleaning. Its not like I only use it when I knock my teeth out.

[Rani]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1331781937' post='542625']
[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1331779385' post='542612']
Now why would her health insurance be paid for in tuition when for another two years health insurance is selective? And as of right now students would be on their parents policy through age 26? Plus if a student were paying for it in tuition, then we're back to the fact that if the student is paying then the student should be able to choose a policy which covers her birth control? So once again we have a private company choosing to enforce something they're not paying for, don't we?

'Rani
[/quote]

On parents policy only if they chose to leave them there. Some may not.

I would bet the dioceses is subsidizing the group plan. Students may be paying, but I guarantee the school is paying part of it in some way. After all, she IS free to get a policy anywhere, why does she seem to think she has to buy the group plan from the school?

I keep coming back to a point where I just think that insurance is something you buy to pay for unexpected losses, damage, sickness, or injury, not something you buy and expect it to pay for routine expenses. At what point did we come to think that an "insurance" plan that we buy for XXX$ a month was going to pay more than the premium amount in regular routine benefits?

The average American needs to wise up, and figure out that they are responsible for their own expenses. Bunch of freeloading people that can't possibly be inconvenienced to pay their own bills.
[/quote]

Scotsman, that's a bogus argument and you know it because for probably 90% at least of those who pay for health insurance never use more than the smallest amount of it's services. Just in my own example I've paid $240 a month for the past 8months and used exactly zero benefits. Our office manager has been paying for 12 years and used it once for an injury and a physical once a year. Why else do you think insurance companies exist? They're for profit businesses like every business.

'Rani

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1331784238' post='542634']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1331781937' post='542625']
[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1331779385' post='542612']
Now why would her health insurance be paid for in tuition when for another two years health insurance is selective? And as of right now students would be on their parents policy through age 26? Plus if a student were paying for it in tuition, then we're back to the fact that if the student is paying then the student should be able to choose a policy which covers her birth control? So once again we have a private company choosing to enforce something they're not paying for, don't we?

'Rani
[/quote]

On parents policy only if they chose to leave them there. Some may not.

I would bet the dioceses is subsidizing the group plan. Students may be paying, but I guarantee the school is paying part of it in some way. After all, she IS free to get a policy anywhere, why does she seem to think she has to buy the group plan from the school?

I keep coming back to a point where I just think that insurance is something you buy to pay for unexpected losses, damage, sickness, or injury, not something you buy and expect it to pay for routine expenses. At what point did we come to think that an "insurance" plan that we buy for XXX$ a month was going to pay more than the premium amount in regular routine benefits?

The average American needs to wise up, and figure out that they are responsible for their own expenses. Bunch of freeloading people that can't possibly be inconvenienced to pay their own bills.
[/quote]

Scotsman, that's a bogus argument and you know it because for probably 90% at least of those who pay for health insurance never use more than the smallest amount of it's services. Just in my own example I've paid $240 a month for the past 8months and used exactly zero benefits. Our office manager has been paying for 12 years and used it once for an injury and a physical once a year. Why else do you think insurance companies exist? They're for profit businesses like every business.

'Rani
[/quote]

240 a month! Good grief Rani, did that bill come with a threat letter, or something? We are talking about insurance, not armed robbery! I would have to go get myself broken just to not feel screwed!

And yes, they are a biz, when you expect them to pay for everything under the sun, your rates are going to go up. (sorta like that 'bamacare bill that CBO doubled a few days ago.) I think everyone should be able to choose a plan they want. Maybe what is needed at GU is a choice of plans, rather than a one size fits all. Naturally that is going to make the basic major-med policy cheaper, and the freeloader-wants-it-for-free policy more expensive. Does seem like the only fair answer for the problem.

[ChicagoRSX]

I support birth control being paid for with my taxes. I'd rather my taxes possibly prevent someone's mistake that, if not prevented, my taxes may have to support for another 18 years.

[Rani]

[quote name='ChicagoRSX' timestamp='1332349406' post='543020']
I support birth control being paid for with my taxes. I'd rather my taxes possibly prevent someone's mistake that, if not prevented, my taxes may have to support for another 18 years.
[/quote]

I've kind of argued this from the beginning, but in a discussion over the weekend something else came up...... As one person said...."We cannot allow religious organizations to govern our healthcare. If your employer's religious belief's do not allow for transfusions, or organ donation, or medical intervention at all, then under this precedent you wouldn't have to be allowed them either. "

And we know precedent is EVERYTHING in setting laws, so I'm sorry, no. When it comes to the issue of whether or not a religious organization is allowed to decide what your health care entails, religious freedom doesn't trump rights to life, liberty and privacy of health care. There should absolutely NO exceptions made for "religious" employers or educational institutions.

And as someone else pointed out, it's a piss-poor church that has so little influence over it's congregation that it requires the United States government to make laws preventing their acting against your instructions.

'Rani