Christopher Mason Taylor Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='dizzbizz' timestamp='1332204575' post='542897'] I use my alien all the time and its great. I'd go with that. But if you don't mind a regular egyptian bowl I'd get the mini egyptian. I use my all the time if I'm not using the alien. [/quote] I have an Egyptian, and I love it. I'd just like to have a small backup funnel bowl to maintain the juices, as well as give me an opportunity to enjoy Tangiers when I get to have it. It seems like opinions are really divided on the Alien. Edited March 20, 2012 by Christopher Mason Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joytron Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Really where is the fun, and what is the point of a forum when you start saying everyone's opinions are equally valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavsfan31 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 [quote name='Christopher Mason Taylor' timestamp='1332215887' post='542910'] [quote name='dizzbizz' timestamp='1332204575' post='542897'] I use my alien all the time and its great. I'd go with that. But if you don't mind a regular egyptian bowl I'd get the mini egyptian. I use my all the time if I'm not using the alien. [/quote] I have an Egyptian, and I love it. I'd just like to have a small backup funnel bowl to maintain the juices, as well as give me an opportunity to enjoy Tangiers when I get to have it. It seems like opinions are really divided on the Alien. [/quote] Opinions are pretty divided on here. On another forum, I would venture to say at least 90% of the posters would recommend you an alien over the micro. Another thing that has to be considered is that the aliens have varied a fair amount in size. Some got the shallow ones, hated them, so they wrote them off. Some got a shallow one, didn't like it, bought a larger one and they enjoy the larger one. I have a fairly shallow one and it works quite well for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavsfan31 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 [quote name='Christopher Mason Taylor' timestamp='1332143618' post='542841'] [quote name='mavsfan31' timestamp='1332132409' post='542833'] Disagree. You might have found a method that works well for a chinese phunnel, but once you get things down with a genuine Tangiers phunnel you will be able to notice the difference. [/quote] Come on. It's one thing to state your preference, but invalidating someone else's experience who says they've tried what you have? That's not fair. Anyway, it seems like most people here are really big fans of the Crown Micro. Are there really no short session alternatives, though, besides the Alien? [/quote] I guess I could have said it differently, but these kinds of discussions are healthy. I don't get what the big deal is. I wasn't invalidating his opinion. At the end of the day, he should use what works best for him. After all, I'm not smoking with him. When he said that a generic chinese phunnel will smoke as well as his Tangiers, I took him to be stating that as more of a fact. I see it (as I'm sure many others do as well) that it is a fact that with proper packing and heat management the Tangiers phunnel will smoke better than a chinese phunnel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mason Taylor Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 [quote name='mavsfan31' timestamp='1332228011' post='542918'] I see it (as I'm sure many others do as well) that it is a fact that with proper packing and heat management the Tangiers phunnel will smoke better than a chinese phunnel. [/quote] Again, realm of opinion, not fact. "Better" is a quality without factual value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floataround Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 You starred this thread asking a question and wanting opinions from people who know what they are talking about. Someone gave you bad advice, we corrected it. You are now arguing that. If you want a sub par Chinese phunnel, by all means its your money. And in regards to factual vs opinion, I can think of no one who knows everything about hookah than Eric. He knows what he is doing. He has made the superior product. Just because you don't know the scientific makeup on his products does not mean that it's not there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floataround Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Oh and based off of what your smoking, just get a small Egyptian. (null) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavsfan31 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 [quote name='Christopher Mason Taylor' timestamp='1332250112' post='542923'] [quote name='mavsfan31' timestamp='1332228011' post='542918'] I see it (as I'm sure many others do as well) that it is a fact that with proper packing and heat management the Tangiers phunnel will smoke better than a chinese phunnel. [/quote] Again, realm of opinion, not fact. "Better" is a quality without factual value. [/quote] Give Eric a call. He'll give you the lowdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vendetta_revived Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 [quote name='CO_hookah' timestamp='1332130648' post='542830'] I actually use a generic Chinese phunnel and it smokes just as good as any Tang phunnel I've used. Just gotta find the right one I suppose. [/quote] Disclaimer: I don't mean any offense to you @Co_Hookah, I am quoting you here only for the sake of discussion. Please don't mind. @Christopher Mason Tyler: Man, the statement above is fine, and would be counted as an opinion if made in a discussion thread about phunnels. I mean if someone finds out a way to get their chinese phunnel to work as good as a tangiers phunnel, then more power to them. This is however, not a discussion thread. This is a thread where a new member has asked for opinions so that he can make an informed decision on what phunnel to buy and not feel like he just flushed his money down the toilet, and by making the statement above in a thread like this, the poster is not only stating his own opinion, but rather implying that since he is able to get his chinese phunnel to work, you will be too, as in a surefire way, as in a FACT. This is a forum, and people ask questions all the time, so if someone wants an advice on a new hookah, and then someone else comes in and says that their pumpkin works as good as any KM/Al Nawras/Myas/Elmas they have tried, then it is our duty to disagree with them and guide the OP in the right direction. Now the OP (the guy who asked the question, and not the one who made the suggestion) may be a 1 in a million kind of guy, who as it turns out, would have liked a pumpkin, better than a more quality hookah, but then, he should have gone down the road of trial and error, and found his holy grail, because majority of people on this forum, would never guide someone to buy a pumpkin, because even though it is not a fact that a quality hookah is better than a pumpkin, we just find it logical, to guide people towards items which are *more likely* to satisfy their needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 [quote name='CO_hookah' timestamp='1332130648' post='542830'] I actually use a generic Chinese phunnel and it smokes just as good as any Tang phunnel I've used. Just gotta find the right one I suppose. [/quote] Chinese phunnel bowls (such as ones made my Deezer) are in no way similar to Tangiers phunnels besides the fact that there is a center spire and a well. [img]http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l590/PrincessCoyote/phunnelvenn.jpg[/img] Hollow constructed bowls made with low quality materials will not retain heat as well as a Tangiers phunnel and thus will make heat management more difficult and the clouds will not be as thick. Flavor will also take a hit. Sure you can pack Tangiers in any bowl but the results will vary. If you want to take advantage of the fullest potential of the flavor character, the balance of flavor tones, and the thickest clouds then a Tangiers Phunnel is your best bet. For short sessions WITHOUT a Tangiers Phunnel I like to recommend the HJ's FSB or the Alien. The FSB is very easy to pack and requires little to no heat management skills. Evan noticed that more of the "top-note" flavors come out first when using the FSB. The Alien requires a little more attention to pack and heat management but the result is very similar to the FSB. I have also successfully packed Tangiers in a standard Egyptian bowl and had good flavor and mediocre clouds. Glass bowls generally will give good flavor and not so big clouds and the heat is inconsistent since the glass doesn't retain heat. Hope that helps. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I didn't realize there was a page 2 to this discussion before I posted... so I will just leave you guys with this: [img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmr8098Mvg1qfj6wko1_500.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 [quote name='mavsfan31' timestamp='1332227706' post='542917'] [b]Opinions are pretty divided on here. On another forum, I would venture to say at least 90% of the posters would recommend you an alien over the micro.[/b] Another thing that has to be considered is that the aliens have varied a fair amount in size. Some got the shallow ones, hated them, so they wrote them off. Some got a shallow one, didn't like it, bought a larger one and they enjoy the larger one. I have a fairly shallow one and it works quite well for me. [/quote] Well of course you'll find a higher [u]diversity[/u] (I wouldn't call them "divided") of opinions here... I think we all know why the Alien is more recommended there than here. [quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1332258770' post='542931'] [img]http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l590/PrincessCoyote/phunnelvenn.jpg[/img] [/quote] Bam. This is all you need to know, Christopher. (I wouldn't bother with a Chinese phunnel myself) [quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1332259412' post='542932'] I didn't realize there was a page 2 to this discussion before I posted... so I will just leave you guys with this: [img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmr8098Mvg1qfj6wko1_500.jpg[/img] [/quote] And this just looks fucking delish! EDIT: Minus the Bud Light, haha. Need a real beer in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSmokes Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 [quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1332259412' post='542932'] I didn't realize there was a page 2 to this discussion before I posted... so I will just leave you guys with this: [img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmr8098Mvg1qfj6wko1_500.jpg[/img] [/quote] Right when I thought I wasn't craving anything you had to go and post this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavsfan31 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 [quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1332258770' post='542931'] [quote name='CO_hookah' timestamp='1332130648' post='542830'] I actually use a generic Chinese phunnel and it smokes just as good as any Tang phunnel I've used. Just gotta find the right one I suppose. [/quote] Chinese phunnel bowls (such as ones made my Deezer) are in no way similar to Tangiers phunnels besides the fact that there is a center spire and a well. [img]http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l590/PrincessCoyote/phunnelvenn.jpg[/img] Hollow constructed bowls made with low quality materials will not retain heat as well as a Tangiers phunnel and thus will make heat management more difficult and the clouds will not be as thick. Flavor will also take a hit. Sure you can pack Tangiers in any bowl but the results will vary. If you want to take advantage of the fullest potential of the flavor character, the balance of flavor tones, and the thickest clouds then a Tangiers Phunnel is your best bet. For short sessions WITHOUT a Tangiers Phunnel I like to recommend the HJ's FSB or the Alien. The FSB is very easy to pack and requires little to no heat management skills. Evan noticed that more of the "top-note" flavors come out first when using the FSB. The Alien requires a little more attention to pack and heat management but the result is very similar to the FSB. I have also successfully packed Tangiers in a standard Egyptian bowl and had good flavor and mediocre clouds. Glass bowls generally will give good flavor and not so big clouds and the heat is inconsistent since the glass doesn't retain heat. Hope that helps. [/quote] Only thing I would add is that the quality control of the chinese phunnels is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcane Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 [quote name='Floataround' timestamp='1332252850' post='542925'] Oh and based off of what your smoking, just get a small Egyptian. (null) [/quote] This is good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dereksd Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 the alien or the crown are both good ways to go. I personally love my alien. It uses about 20-25 grams of shisha and i can get a 3 hour session out of it no problem with tangiers. In my opinion anyone who has a bad thing to say about the alien either hasnt owned/used a newer model(more depth than the older bowls) or doesnt know how to pack one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mason Taylor Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 [quote name='vendetta_revived' timestamp='1332257899' post='542930'] @Christopher Mason Tyler: Man, the statement above is fine, and would be counted as an opinion if made in a discussion thread about phunnels. I mean if someone finds out a way to get their chinese phunnel to work as good as a tangiers phunnel, then more power to them. This is however, not a discussion thread. This is a thread where a new member has asked for opinions so that he can make an informed decision on what phunnel to buy and not feel like he just flushed his money down the toilet, and by making the statement above in a thread like this, the poster is not only stating his own opinion, but rather implying that since he is able to get his chinese phunnel to work, you will be too, as in a surefire way, as in a FACT. This is a forum, and people ask questions all the time, so if someone wants an advice on a new hookah, and then someone else comes in and says that their pumpkin works as good as any KM/Al Nawras/Myas/Elmas they have tried, then it is our duty to disagree with them and guide the OP in the right direction. Now the OP (the guy who asked the question, and not the one who made the suggestion) may be a 1 in a million kind of guy, who as it turns out, would have liked a pumpkin, better than a more quality hookah, but then, he should have gone down the road of trial and error, and found his holy grail, because majority of people on this forum, would never guide someone to buy a pumpkin, because even though it is not a fact that a quality hookah is better than a pumpkin, we just find it logical, to guide people towards items which are *more likely* to satisfy their needs. [/quote] Just FYI, I'm the OP. And what I was hoping for when I started the thread were a series of varied suggestions coming from different perspectives. When I saw a post that disagreed with what appears to be the "general wisdom" here, obviously the deviation was something I took into account. Obviously I want to hear as many viewpoints as possible. That's why I came here. But when I saw the guy being essentially told he wasn't experiencing what he was experiencing, that he must be doing something wrong to hold the opinion he does, that wasn't cool. He was just imparting his experience and his opinion. No matter how you try to twist it, and no matter how many claims anyone throws out about the differences between the bowls, he was still stating his opinion, that to him, the smoke was "just as good." All anyone had to say was, "that hasn't been my experience. I don't agree. I think the Tangiers phunnel bowls smoke significantly better than the Chinese copies." But that isn't what was said. A large number of people have since been claiming that their opinions are facts, rather than opinions, and that isn't helpful. The point of sharing views, tastes, and opinions is to give people like me, with limited experience with funnels, a chance to see the differing views and judge for myself based on what is presented. It's not to try and claim authority and quash the view of others by claiming an opinion is fact because it's the majority opinion, or because it's your opinion. Thanks again, to everyone for all the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floataround Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Christopher Mason Taylor' timestamp='1332308806' post='542996']No matter how you try to twist it, and no matter how many claims anyone throws out about the differences between the bowls, he was still stating his opinion, that to him, the smoke was "just as good." [/quote] Thats great, and what was said to him was this [quote name='mavsfan31' timestamp='1332132409' post='542833'] Disagree. You might have found a method that works well for a chinese phunnel, but once you get things down with a genuine Tangiers phunnel you will be able to notice the difference. [/quote] Which is true. Packing a Tangiers phunnel right, and using proper heat management will result in a better smoke than a Chinese phunnel.If someone would rather use a Chinese, feel free, but its going to be an experience that can be much improved. You then claim [quote name='Christopher Mason Taylor' timestamp='1332308806' post='542996']A large number of people have since been claiming that their opinions are facts, rather than opinions, and that isn't helpful. [/quote] But you were given facts. Coyote did give you facts. Scientific facts. She is a Tangiers rep and knows those facts. You were also told, call of Eric of Tangiers, and he will give you his scientific method. You for whatever reason decided to take the facts and say that they were opinions. More goes into making a hookah product than you think. Like she said, more goes into this than just shaping a bowl with a well in it. You are choosing to deny that. [quote name='Christopher Mason Taylor' timestamp='1332308806' post='542996']The point of sharing views, tastes, and opinions is to give people like me, with limited experience with funnels, a chance to see the differing views and judge for myself based on what is presented. It's not to try and claim authority and quash the view of others by claiming an opinion is fact because it's the majority opinion, or because it's your opinion. [/quote] None of that is going on though. We are giving you the best advice possible, and again, you are denying the factual evidence as to why a Tangiers phunnel is better. It is the majority view due to those facts. No one here is going to stop you from buying a Chinese phunnel or any other bowl. Its your choice. You HAVE been given the facts though. Do what you will with them. Edited March 21, 2012 by Floataround Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mason Taylor Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 [quote name='Floataround' timestamp='1332347185' post='543017'] Packing a Tangiers phunnel right, and using proper heat management will result in a better smoke than a Chinese phunnel.If someone would rather use a Chinese, feel free, but its going to be an experience that can be much improved.[/quote] "Better" is, and has always been, a subjective, and not objective, factual term. Period. [quote] But you were given facts. Coyote did give you facts. Scientific facts. She is a Tangiers rep and knows those facts. You were also told, call of Eric of Tangiers, and he will give you his scientific method. You for whatever reason decided to take the facts and say that they were opinions. More goes into making a hookah product than you think. Like she said, more goes into this than just shaping a bowl with a well in it. You are choosing to deny that. [/quote] I denied none of the facts I was given, nor said they were opinions. Even if I assume without evidence that Eric conducted thousands of tests and created hundreds of prototypes before settling on the exact formula for the Tangiers phunnel bowl, as well as that the Chinese knockoff in question has exactly the properties it was said to have comparatively speaking, those facts (yes, they are facts; I do not and did not deny it) do not prove that anything is better, because better is a matter of opinion. [quote]None of that is going on though. We are giving you the best advice possible, and again, you are denying the factual evidence as to why a Tangiers phunnel is better. It is the majority view due to those facts.[/quote] "We are giving the best advice possible" just reinforces this "our opinions are the RIGHT opinions" stuff. I denied no facts. But no amount of acts can turn "a better smoke" into anything other than a subjective quality, a matter of opinion. [quote]No one here is going to stop you from buying a Chinese phunnel or any other bowl. Its your choice. You HAVE been given the facts though. Do what you will with them. [/quote] I didn't accuse anyone of trying to stop me from buying one of the Chinese knockoffs. I've never defended them, or implied that I WANT to buy one for any reason. All I've ever done is point out that "better" is a subjective quality, and it is rude to invalidate the opinions of others. Please stop putting words in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joytron Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 You must be new here. Anyways, I think the egyptian bowl is really great and if you don't plan on smoking for more than a couple hours I would not worry about the leakage. In my experience the egyptian bowl was more functional than the alien and was much less heat sensitive. The alien I used also had a spire that was not lower than the rim which is pretty problematic. I get that maybe there have been improvements but I have not really heard anyone say an alien smokes better than a tangier's phunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mason Taylor Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) [quote name='joytron' timestamp='1332387874' post='543062'] You must be new here. Anyways, I think the egyptian bowl is really great and if you don't plan on smoking for more than a couple hours I would not worry about the leakage. In my experience the egyptian bowl was more functional than the alien and was much less heat sensitive. The alien I used also had a spire that was not lower than the rim which is pretty problematic. I get that maybe there have been improvements but I have not really heard anyone say an alien smokes better than a tangier's phunnel. [/quote] Thanks again. Yeah, I already have an Egyptian, and love it for most Nakhla, especially Zaghloul. I prefer DA in my "small" phunnel, though, at least when I have the time for a really long session. Plus, I'd like to spend some quality time with Tangiers one of these days, as buzz is my #1 priority, and from my limited experience with it, neither a Vortex nor an Egyptian seemed ideal. But maybe I was just packing it wrong. It's looking like I'll just have to stick with what I've got for the meantime, and save up for either a Crown Micro, or a Tangiers Mini if I run across one. I'm also entertaining the idea of building my own; my mother has a friend that runs a pottery studio. But we'll see. It really is a shame there are so few options. Edited March 22, 2012 by Christopher Mason Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushrat Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 [quote name='Dereksd' timestamp='1332300910' post='542989'] the alien or the crown are both good ways to go. I personally love my alien. It uses about 20-25 grams of shisha and i can get a 3 hour session out of it no problem with tangiers. In my opinion anyone who has a bad thing to say about the alien either hasnt owned/used a newer model(more depth than the older bowls) or doesnt know how to pack one. [/quote] or they just dont like it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Guess what, Christopher... You can now be on the lookout for a Tangiers Tiny Mini Phunnel! Or whatever the feck it is officially called... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy Oma Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 This is one, next to a tangiers small phunnel for scale. [attachment=5804:IMG_20120325_151448_2.jpg] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floataround Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Is it confirmed these will go retail? (null) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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