Tang At High Altitude Help

[CO_hookah]

So, I live at about 6,200 ft above sea level with very little humidity, and I love to smoke tang. My problem is that I'm about 50/50 when it comes to packing. I use a tang small phunnel, one piece of foil, holes over the whole bowl with a Fumari poker, and 2-3 coconaras. I've tried the dense as in the bag packing method and it doesn't really work. I've experimented with other ways, with a 50/50 success rate. Does anyone from a high altitude have a way that works? Or does anyone else have any advice? Thanks!

[headhunter]

Are u sure its acclimated when you pack it? If it doesnt smell like it should (like BBQ or burnt tobacco) then try acclimating it more, either freezing it as a last resort or the 4/20 method. And not to insult you if you know this, just the best way to start off.

[twoapplesplease]

I've used tang at 9000ft....a longer acclimating at first but then its good to go untill its gone....let it sit out over night

[Coyote]

Just a few questions to get to the root of the problem:

What line of Tangiers are you using? (Lucid, Birquq, Noir)
How are you acclimating? and how often?
What does your tobacco smell like before you pack it?
What are the symptoms? (describe your smoke feel, flavor, and cloud density)

Hopefully we can pinpoint what is going on and get you at 100%

[CO_hookah]

[quote name='twoapplesplease' timestamp='1333953484' post='544386']
I've used tang at 9000ft....a longer acclimating at first but then its good to go untill its gone....let it sit out over night
[/quote]

I'll give this a shot

[quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1333980399' post='544393']
Just a few questions to get to the root of the problem:

What line of Tangiers are you using? (Lucid, Birquq, Noir)
How are you acclimating? and how often?
What does your tobacco smell like before you pack it?
What are the symptoms? (describe your smoke feel, flavor, and cloud density)

Hopefully we can pinpoint what is going on and get you at 100%
[/quote]

When it comes to acclimating most flavors smell just like they should as soon as I open the package. The few times I've had to acclimate I've done the 4/20 method and that works just as fine. I won't pack it until it smells like it should. I use Noir. The most common symptom is weak smoke and flavor. My last example was I tried smoking maraschino cherry. It smelt just like it should, packed it fairly dense, 2 coconaras. Flavor and smoke were real weak. Moved to 3 and that just made it taste burnt and awful. The second most common one is just an insane amount of harshness right off the bat, no smoke or flavor. I've also had times of super intense flavor, but weak smoke.

Thanks for the help everyone! Edited April 9, 2012 by CO_hookah

[Coyote]

[quote name='CO_hookah' timestamp='1333987630' post='544400']
[quote name='twoapplesplease' timestamp='1333953484' post='544386']
I've used tang at 9000ft....a longer acclimating at first but then its good to go untill its gone....let it sit out over night
[/quote]

I'll give this a shot

[quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1333980399' post='544393']
Just a few questions to get to the root of the problem:

What line of Tangiers are you using? (Lucid, Birquq, Noir)
How are you acclimating? and how often?
What does your tobacco smell like before you pack it?
What are the symptoms? (describe your smoke feel, flavor, and cloud density)

Hopefully we can pinpoint what is going on and get you at 100%
[/quote]

When it comes to acclimating most flavors smell just like they should as soon as I open the package. The few times I've had to acclimate I've done the 4/20 method and that works just as fine. I won't pack it until it smells like it should. I use Noir. The most common symptom is weak smoke and flavor. My last example was I tried smoking maraschino cherry. It smelt just like it should, packed it fairly dense, 2 coconaras. Flavor and smoke were real weak. Moved to 3 and that just made it taste burnt and awful. The second most common one is just an insane amount of harshness right off the bat, no smoke or flavor. I've also had times of super intense flavor, but weak smoke.

Thanks for the help everyone!
[/quote]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]How many times have you run 4/20 acclimation on your MCherry?[/size][/font][/color]

At first glance this doesn't seem to be a acclimation issue at all. It sounds like a packing issue to me. Trying packing a denser. Harsh, flavorless, wispy smoke is an indicator of an underpack. The rule of thumb is to pack it as densely in the bowl as it is the package. The density of your tobacco should be consistent all the way around the bowl (so there are no craters or swells). Avoid the moat around the outside rim but pressing the tobacco up again the edge of the bowl. The surface of the tobacco should be smooth so that there are no potholes After the palm test, there should be about a quarter coins thickness between the surface of the tobacco and the outside rim of the bowl. In addiction there should be just a little bit of the spire showing above the surface of the tobacco (I would say about a dime coins thickness?).

After the bowl is packed add a layer of HD foil...make sure your holes are plentiful and larger than the toothpick (I don't know what a fumari poker is... I use a souvlaki skewer). It is important to press all the way down to the bottom of the bowl. Retighten your foil after you have poked holes just incase the downward force of your poking object has caused a collapse in your foil.

Additionally, you make also want to play around with your heat management. It will take at least 20minutes for your bowl and its contents to reach temperature. If you add too much heat in the beginner then it will most likely scorch as you approach the 20 minute mark. Some people just wait until the 20 minute mark to reach thunderclouds... some people add a coal and then take it off if there is any change in flavor or smoke feel (usually right before the 20minute mark)... some people add a windcover and remove at the changing point/20minute mark.

It has been theorized before that less heat is needed to vaporize Tangiers at altitudes higher than 5,000ft because the pressure decreases the boiling point. I have no personal experience with these theory and we haven't the information yet make approve or disprove the theory. Makes sense to me though. Maybe try a little less heat and then let us know.

Hope that helps! If not, let us diagnose again

[CO_hookah]

[quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1333994338' post='544409']
[quote name='CO_hookah' timestamp='1333987630' post='544400']
[quote name='twoapplesplease' timestamp='1333953484' post='544386']
I've used tang at 9000ft....a longer acclimating at first but then its good to go untill its gone....let it sit out over night
[/quote]

I'll give this a shot

[quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1333980399' post='544393']
Just a few questions to get to the root of the problem:

What line of Tangiers are you using? (Lucid, Birquq, Noir)
How are you acclimating? and how often?
What does your tobacco smell like before you pack it?
What are the symptoms? (describe your smoke feel, flavor, and cloud density)

Hopefully we can pinpoint what is going on and get you at 100%
[/quote]

When it comes to acclimating most flavors smell just like they should as soon as I open the package. The few times I've had to acclimate I've done the 4/20 method and that works just as fine. I won't pack it until it smells like it should. I use Noir. The most common symptom is weak smoke and flavor. My last example was I tried smoking maraschino cherry. It smelt just like it should, packed it fairly dense, 2 coconaras. Flavor and smoke were real weak. Moved to 3 and that just made it taste burnt and awful. The second most common one is just an insane amount of harshness right off the bat, no smoke or flavor. I've also had times of super intense flavor, but weak smoke.

Thanks for the help everyone!
[/quote]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]How many times have you run 4/20 acclimation on your MCherry?[/size][/font][/color]

At first glance this doesn't seem to be a acclimation issue at all. It sounds like a packing issue to me. Trying packing a denser. Harsh, flavorless, wispy smoke is an indicator of an underpack. The rule of thumb is to pack it as densely in the bowl as it is the package. The density of your tobacco should be consistent all the way around the bowl (so there are no craters or swells). Avoid the moat around the outside rim but pressing the tobacco up again the edge of the bowl. The surface of the tobacco should be smooth so that there are no potholes After the palm test, there should be about a quarter coins thickness between the surface of the tobacco and the outside rim of the bowl. In addiction there should be just a little bit of the spire showing above the surface of the tobacco (I would say about a dime coins thickness?).

After the bowl is packed add a layer of HD foil...make sure your holes are plentiful and larger than the toothpick (I don't know what a fumari poker is... I use a souvlaki skewer). It is important to press all the way down to the bottom of the bowl. Retighten your foil after you have poked holes just incase the downward force of your poking object has caused a collapse in your foil.

Additionally, you make also want to play around with your heat management. It will take at least 20minutes for your bowl and its contents to reach temperature. If you add too much heat in the beginner then it will most likely scorch as you approach the 20 minute mark. Some people just wait until the 20 minute mark to reach thunderclouds... some people add a coal and then take it off if there is any change in flavor or smoke feel (usually right before the 20minute mark)... some people add a windcover and remove at the changing point/20minute mark.

It has been theorized before that less heat is needed to vaporize Tangiers at altitudes higher than 5,000ft because the pressure decreases the boiling point. I have no personal experience with these theory and we haven't the information yet make approve or disprove the theory. Makes sense to me though. Maybe try a little less heat and then let us know.

Hope that helps! If not, let us diagnose again
[/quote]


Thank you! I'll give all my flavors a once more with the 4/20 (M Cherry, mint, and Welsh cream) and try packing according to what you just said. The Fumari poker is a little bigger than a toothpick, do I still want bigger? I'll start the 4/20 again now, and report again tomorrow night or Wednesday. Thanks!

[Coyote]

The MCherry might suffer flavorloss if it is exposed openly (without a lid) to the environment for over 24hrs. Other flavors should be ok.

[DrSmokes]

Might also want to try halving the coals and using 3 of the halves to see if that will help with your heat management a lil better. Definitely having a wind cover has been awesome for me. Much easier to manage the heat that way by putting it on and taking it off depending on how the smoke feels, how big the clouds are, and how it tastes.

[Coyote]

I have not seen a good enough reason to cut coals when you can just stonehenge them.

[DrSmokes]

[quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1334171541' post='544598']
I have not seen a good enough reason to cut coals when you can just stonehenge them.
[/quote]
Unless he has the cubed ones

[Coyote]

[quote name='DrSmokes' timestamp='1334171997' post='544601']
[quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1334171541' post='544598']
I have not seen a good enough reason to cut coals when you can just stonehenge them.
[/quote]
Unless he has the cubed ones
[/quote]

He says he's using CCNs.

[DrSmokes]

[quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1334172230' post='544603']
[quote name='DrSmokes' timestamp='1334171997' post='544601']
[quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1334171541' post='544598']
I have not seen a good enough reason to cut coals when you can just stonehenge them.
[/quote]
Unless he has the cubed ones
[/quote]

He says he's using CCNs.
[/quote]
Don't they come in cubes and rectangles? I have a set of each.

[CO_hookah]

I use the flat ones. Due to Murphy's Law I have to put off smoking until tonight. Will report back tomorrow!

[Coyote]

Cocomayaza cubes are distributed by CCN...


*Comments in this post do not necessarily reflect those of Tangiers Tobacco*

[CO_hookah]

Alright, so after using the advice Coyote so graciously gave me, my first bowl using it was m cherry packed as dense as I remember the package was, one piece Reynolds HD, holes all around the foil using a Fumari poker with each poke going all the way to the bottom, and 2 Coconara flats. I let it sit for a few minutes, then started to smoke consistently. Clouds were decent (similar to AF) and the flavor was decent, but not the insane in your face flavor I've had from the few great bowls I've managed to pack. Do you still think it's a packing issue?

[mustang67n]

Did you make sure to pack the walls a bit tighter?

I was having flavor issues before, and after using a fork to pack the walls first then compressing the rest of the bowl it helped a lot. This helps allow the bowl's temperature from the coals heat up more of the tobacco from my understanding.

[CO_hookah]

[quote name='mustang67n' timestamp='1334284058' post='544783']
Did you make sure to pack the walls a bit tighter?

I was having flavor issues before, and after using a fork to pack the walls first then compressing the rest of the bowl it helped a lot. This helps allow the bowl's temperature from the coals heat up more of the tobacco from my understanding.
[/quote]

Up against the walls? Like pack tight against the walls of the bowl the pack the rest of it?

[Coyote]

Correct. That's one of the three packing methods I teach....

What flavor did you pack this time? Did u do the sniff test first?

*Comments in this post do not necessarily reflect those of Tangiers Tobacco*

[CO_hookah]

M cherry. Sniff test? When I open the container right away you get the huge whiff of an awesome cherry smell.

[Coyote]

[quote name='CO_hookah' timestamp='1334329954' post='544819']M cherry. Sniff test? When I open the container right away you get the huge whiff of an awesome cherry smell.[/quote]

How many hours total have you kept the lid off?


*Comments in this post do not necessarily reflect those of Tangiers Tobacco*

[CO_hookah]

Since I've made this thread, about 8, did the 4/20 method twice