Tobacco Vaccination?

[joytron]

[quote name='Coleman' timestamp='1336529924' post='546945']
As odd as this sounds but look at the movie idiocracy (yes it was a comedy) but when you look at people we are slowly getting more stupid. Reading is hated by so many kids in high school so it's seems intelligence is slowly dying. I mean I'm not brilliant I can be a moron sometimes but there are so many people much worse then me
[/quote]

Coleman, if hookah forum started advocating social darwinism, you would be the first to go.

[headhunter]

[quote name='Coleman' timestamp='1336529924' post='546945']
As odd as this sounds but look at the movie idiocracy (yes it was a comedy) but when you look at people we are slowly getting more stupid. Reading is hated by so many kids in high school so it's seems intelligence is slowly dying. I mean I'm not brilliant I can be a moron sometimes but there are so many people much worse then me
[/quote]
[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1336531402' post='546947']
not true, i know many of my classmates that are avid readers. as well as myself, i love to read and can read a 400 page book in half a day sir.
[quote name='Coleman' timestamp='1336529924' post='546945']
As odd as this sounds but look at the movie idiocracy (yes it was a comedy) but when you look at people we are slowly getting more stupid. Reading is hated by so many kids in high school so it's seems intelligence is slowly dying. I mean I'm not brilliant I can be a moron sometimes but there are so many people much worse then me
[/quote]
Coleman, if hookah forum started advocating social darwinism, you would be the first to go.
[/quote]

lol Edited May 9, 2012 by headhunter

[Pavo21]

i like this i hate cigs and the smell so ban them all!!!

[Coleman]

[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1336531402' post='546947']
[quote name='Coleman' timestamp='1336529924' post='546945']
As odd as this sounds but look at the movie idiocracy (yes it was a comedy) but when you look at people we are slowly getting more stupid. Reading is hated by so many kids in high school so it's seems intelligence is slowly dying. I mean I'm not brilliant I can be a moron sometimes but there are so many people much worse then me
[/quote]

Coleman, if hookah forum started advocating social darwinism, you would be the first to go.
[/quote]

Did you just call me a moron hahah if so I beg to differ.

[kenshinx23]

[quote name='Coleman' timestamp='1336529924' post='546945']
As odd as this sounds but look at the movie idiocracy (yes it was a comedy) but when you look at people we are slowly getting more stupid. Reading is hated by so many kids in high school so it's seems intelligence is slowly dying. I mean I'm not brilliant I can be a moron sometimes but there are so many people much worse then me
[/quote]


How do you define stupid? The overall IQ of most countries have been on a steady and measurable rise for the past 1.5 decades. And no that movie was not a comedy >>

[Coleman]

[quote name='kenshinx23' timestamp='1336538603' post='546959']
[quote name='Coleman' timestamp='1336529924' post='546945']
As odd as this sounds but look at the movie idiocracy (yes it was a comedy) but when you look at people we are slowly getting more stupid. Reading is hated by so many kids in high school so it's seems intelligence is slowly dying. I mean I'm not brilliant I can be a moron sometimes but there are so many people much worse then me
[/quote]


How do you define stupid? The overall IQ of most countries have been on a steady and measurable rise for the past 1.5 decades. And no that movie was not a comedy >>
[/quote]

There many forms of stupid, one being lack of "book smarts" or maybe you lack common sense. There are others but I don't feel the need to list anymore. Secondly saying that movie wasn't a comedy is like saying hostel isn't a horror flick. It was an over the top satire.

[shalowlow]

[quote name='DrSmokes' timestamp='1336526025' post='546938']
[quote name='shalowlow' timestamp='1336498001' post='546924']
[quote name='DrSmokes' timestamp='1336236961' post='546764']
[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1336173660' post='546713']
[quote name='mustang67n' timestamp='1336103550' post='546568']
I definitely understand and respect that they are finding solutions to some of these 'problems' but as some of you has said.. is it really worth it to make EVERYONE live longer?! I strongly believe in natural selection and allowing the weak to die off to ultimately increase the strength of the species. The more vaccines and cures and such that come out, the weaker, ultimately, our species becomes. Too reliant on technology (of which, 99% of us don't understand or couldn't recreate).

Guess that got a little off topic there. haha

.. BTW Skoozle. I love your new picture. Hookah IV = win
[/quote]

Hmmmmm... you do realize Hitler believed the same thing.
[/quote]
Sort of...but no quite. He acted upon, trying to force nature in that direction. Natural selection...is natural lol He was forcing artificial selection...kind of like what we do with vaccines and artificial "immunity". Artificial =/= natural.
[/quote]

Yes. Hitler = eradication of polio. Obviously.
[/quote]
You sir, do not make a lick of sense.
[/quote]

Hi Dr., so honored you replied to my posting.

Yeah, it was sarcasm, maybe you didn't get it.

I said it because you compared what scientist are trying to do to help people that have become addicted to a toxic substance and are dying and leaving kids, wives and grandkids behind because they made a bad decision to start in the first place but can't quit, or better yet, scientists trying to eradicate any other disease that is killing people to what Hitler did in trying to eradicate a whole religion.

Yeah, I know that you said "kind of like" and I know you hate medicine and it doesn't cure anything yada yada yada. But come on, really? Vaccines really have nothing at all to do with Hitler and what he tried to do. Nothing at all. Nothing at all. Nothing at all.

I'm sure you have your reasons for your beliefs about medicine and vaccines and stuff, I have and idea of why you have those beliefs, but I don't think you care what I think. You can think what you want and you've made an educated decision regarding your beliefs even though I don't agree with most of them. But you continually come one these boards and spit out what you think is gospel, and it just rubs me the wrong way I guess.

Having said that, trying to create a vaccine to help people isn't harming anyone, everyone on here is so cynical but maybe, just maybe, someone out there is trying to help. And maybe this will save lives and make people happy and live longer. Even if you don't think they should Dr. because they're not as great as you are.

I know it's a touchy subject around here, but nicotine may not be good for us! It's okay to try to help people that want to stop.

[DrSmokes]

[quote name='shalowlow' timestamp='1336591479' post='547000']
[quote name='DrSmokes' timestamp='1336526025' post='546938']
[quote name='shalowlow' timestamp='1336498001' post='546924']
[quote name='DrSmokes' timestamp='1336236961' post='546764']
[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1336173660' post='546713']
[quote name='mustang67n' timestamp='1336103550' post='546568']
I definitely understand and respect that they are finding solutions to some of these 'problems' but as some of you has said.. is it really worth it to make EVERYONE live longer?! I strongly believe in natural selection and allowing the weak to die off to ultimately increase the strength of the species. The more vaccines and cures and such that come out, the weaker, ultimately, our species becomes. Too reliant on technology (of which, 99% of us don't understand or couldn't recreate).

Guess that got a little off topic there. haha

.. BTW Skoozle. I love your new picture. Hookah IV = win
[/quote]

Hmmmmm... you do realize Hitler believed the same thing.
[/quote]
Sort of...but no quite. He acted upon, trying to force nature in that direction. Natural selection...is natural lol He was forcing artificial selection...kind of like what we do with vaccines and artificial "immunity". Artificial =/= natural.
[/quote]

Yes. Hitler = eradication of polio. Obviously.
[/quote]
You sir, do not make a lick of sense.
[/quote]

Hi Dr., so honored you replied to my posting.

Yeah, it was sarcasm, maybe you didn't get it.

I said it because you compared what scientist are trying to do to help people that have become addicted to a toxic substance and are dying and leaving kids, wives and grandkids behind because they made a bad decision to start in the first place but can't quit, or better yet, scientists trying to eradicate any other disease that is killing people to what Hitler did in trying to eradicate a whole religion.

Yeah, I know that you said "kind of like" and I know you hate medicine and it doesn't cure anything yada yada yada. But come on, really? Vaccines really have nothing at all to do with Hitler and what he tried to do. Nothing at all. Nothing at all. Nothing at all.

I'm sure you have your reasons for your beliefs about medicine and vaccines and stuff, I have and idea of why you have those beliefs, but I don't think you care what I think. You can think what you want and you've made an educated decision regarding your beliefs even though I don't agree with most of them. But you continually come one these boards and spit out what you think is gospel, and it just rubs me the wrong way I guess.

Having said that, trying to create a vaccine to help people isn't harming anyone, everyone on here is so cynical but maybe, just maybe, someone out there is trying to help. And maybe this will save lives and make people happy and live longer. Even if you don't think they should Dr. because they're not as great as you are.

I know it's a touchy subject around here, but nicotine may not be good for us! It's okay to try to help people that want to stop.
[/quote]
I wasn't the one that brought up Hitler, I was only comparing that to vaccines, both of with are artificial. Go ahead and look it up if you don't believe me. I haven't forced my knowledge in this thread, you are the one trying to PULL it into this thread like a troll, because you know I would reply. You did it on purpose and with purpose. So as I said, the person that brought up natural selection with Hitler, I only said it was artificial selection just like immunity from vaccines is artificial immunity. To make things easier for your lack of knowledge, I'll provide you with a [url="http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/artificial+immunity"]link[/url]. If you don't believe that link, look it up in Google. I'm right, and you're trying to make something stupid out of this thread directly attacking me.

"Yeah, I know that you said "kind of like" and I know you hate medicine and it doesn't cure anything yada yada yada. But come on, really? Vaccines really have nothing at all to do with Hitler and what he tried to do. Nothing at all. Nothing at all. Nothing at all."
- Just to point this out, the paragraph above states exactly why I brought it up. I wasn't the one that said anything about hitler, just relating what they said back to the OP/topic.

I'm not spreading any sort of gospel. I said one thing in another thread and you and the other d-bag jumped on me without any proof but you decided to troll and attack me. Cool. I don't care what you think about what I [b]know[/b] (not believe, it's knowledge and a scientific look at the topic, not a religion...). I've done my research and I highly doubt you have. If you have, you'd at least have slight doubt about it. Just a few things that made up my mind...every infectious disease was already on the decline prior to that of the invention of vaccines. Each decreased by about 80% by the time vaccines were introduced. Some of the infectious diseases that didn't and still don't have vaccines for (i.e. scarlet fever) trended the exact same as all the vaccinated infectious diseases. In fact, most infectious diseases increased when vaccines were first introduced. Not to mention the polio vaccine has had 2 different types in the past. 1 being OPV and the other being IPV. One is a live attenuated virus and the other is inactive. They first introduced one into the public and then 6 years later, even though there was still a decline in the disease, they said that it didn't work and people had to come back to get the other one so they would have protection. They've done that with other vaccines as well. They also use to say that some of these gave lifelong immunity, and now they are claiming they don't. So what is it? They don't base it off of science, but fear tactics. HPV? Yeah, that's one of the least obtained cancers (I know HPV isn't a cancer, but they claim it causes it), yet they are scaring the public into getting the vaccine. And they claim the vaccine only protects against 2 of the MANY strains that can "cause" cancer.

And then there are all the law suits against vax makers due to the contamination or the dosage is way off. All the adverse reactions out there. The potential to causing chronic diseases down the road (there is no direct causation that I've seen yet, but correlation is there amongst other things...I believe the toxic cocktail of injection, especially into a child under 2 who hasn't developed their blood brain barrier allowing those toxins in vaccines to freely pass into the brain and cause permanent damage, along with the evolution of food, i.e. processed food is dominant now...not fresh, living foods; I think that combination has been the decline of industrialized nations health...Hell, the US spends the most on medication, yet we are ranked 2 or 3rd from last in terms of health...if medication provided health, where are all the healthy pill poppers?!?!?!).

My whole thing is people need to educate themselves before getting stabbed and injected with a toxic cocktail. Many of our rights are being violated by medical facilities stabbing kids with these toxins without getting consent from parents. They are even going into schools now and doing it...and they are injecting kids without their parents consent. I don't care if you choose to be vaccinated or not. I've made an educated decision and I stand by that. If everyone educated themselves and still decided to get vax'd, then that is totally fine. At least then they will know the side effects and even the contraindications for it. If they have a contraindication yet they still want the vax, that's on them and only on them. But if the doctor doesn't explain it and they stab that person who has a contraindication (happens every day) and they have a side effect from it, that's totally on the doctor's conscious and should, imo, pay for the medical bills of the person they just screwed up.

This is all the tip of an iceberg and barely even touches on why I have decided against vaccines. As I said, my biggest thing is for people to inform themselves of both sides. I've read a few books, including that written by a pro-vax doc, Robert Sears, MD, and he is one that tries to show and see both sides but his language used in the books is definitely trying to tell parents "despite all the bad things that can possibly happen and the toxins in these vaccines, you should still get vaccinated". That's fine...as I said, I've researched both sides and am still researching. I just don't trust big pharma, the FDA, CDC, or any other government health agency because they haven't proven to me yet that I can trust them. So that gives you a lil background as to why I've chosen what I've chosen and I hope you have enough [b]respect[/b] to leave me a lone and stop attacking and trying to troll me.

[shalowlow]

[quote name='DrSmokes' timestamp='1336595947' post='547005']
...
[/quote]

Dr., I'm not trolling you, I have only responded to you in two threads, this one and the other thread about the guy with allergies. You may be confusing me with someone else. If you think I'm trolling you then I'm sorry. I just pointed out that what you said was wrong. You didn't bring it up though. I realize that.

I won't respond to any of your postings anymore if that's what you want, but I don't understand why someone can't argue with you about a point, sorry for disagreeing with you Dr.!

By the way, you probably shouldn't assume what I know or don't know. That's not a very good argument.

What's funny is I do agree with you that big pharms have gotten out of hand and greed takes over, I've seen it first hand.

But the idea that this can be a good thing still stands. Everyone is upset at this because it's about Nicotine and the need to control it, which goes directly in the face of the hobby that this site is built on.

[kenshinx23]

I stated the movie wasn't a comedy due to lack of comedy in the movie. Yes i know it was a comedy..........

[DrSmokes]

[quote name='shalowlow' timestamp='1336600749' post='547011']
[quote name='DrSmokes' timestamp='1336595947' post='547005']
...
[/quote]

Dr., I'm not trolling you, I have only responded to you in two threads, this one and the other thread about the guy with allergies. You may be confusing me with someone else. If you think I'm trolling you then I'm sorry. I just pointed out that what you said was wrong. You didn't bring it up though. I realize that.

I won't respond to any of your postings anymore if that's what you want, but I don't understand why someone can't argue with you about a point, sorry for disagreeing with you Dr.!

By the way, you probably shouldn't assume what I know or don't know. That's not a very good argument.

What's funny is I do agree with you that big pharms have gotten out of hand and greed takes over, I've seen it first hand.

But the idea that this can be a good thing still stands. Everyone is upset at this because it's about Nicotine and the need to control it, which goes directly in the face of the hobby that this site is built on.
[/quote]
Sorry but you weren't having a conversation with me about how, what I've read, researched, and seen first hand might be wrong or misconceived. I detailed parts of why I know what I know and you've ignored it and told me I'm wrong without any sort of evidence stating that. Please do me a favor and look up the graphs prior to vaccine introduction. I think you'll see one of the selling points that made me dig even deeper into the matter. Not to mention many of the "diseases" that are vaccinated for are not that bad (chicken pox, mumps, measels, etc)...but the medical fraternity uses fear to make you think it's something very terrible. Yes, there are terrible cases with everything (common cold, seasonal flu, chicken pox, etc), but those people already have something more severe going on in nearly all cases (I haven't heard of any cases that that wasn't the case but I'm covering my bases saying nearly all).

I'm very open to a devil's advocate, just not a person that says that I'm wrong without providing any information as to why. If you read my post and looked up Dr. Sears, you should see that I have done my homework. You've yet to provide any evidence to me to make me think you've done anything more than to just listen to you ill-informed (or informed by big pharma) MD. So if you'd like to continue with this conversation, please drop me a PM. I want to make sure I know this information extremely well and if you have information that I haven't see yet, I'd like to read into it. I read a few articles about it a week, I have 2 books, 1 I'm almost through, and 2-3 more books waiting on my wishlist on Amazon for when I finish these, and I've been to seminars about it. I have lost trust in vaccines, especially since the symptoms of the side effects have shown in me and people close to me.

But I guess the few things I said in my last post you understand and ignored (information about vaccines, artificial immunity, and the Hitler comment). I'd like to hear what you have to say if it's not attacking me like you've done and actually provide information, unlike what you've done. I'm free to gaining more knowledge as that's how it should be in our society. I don't believe in blindly following the words of the ill-informed. Edited May 9, 2012 by DrSmokes

[shalowlow]

[quote name='DrSmokes' timestamp='1336606608' post='547018']
[quote name='shalowlow' timestamp='1336600749' post='547011']
[quote name='DrSmokes' timestamp='1336595947' post='547005']
...
[/quote]

Dr., I'm not trolling you, I have only responded to you in two threads, this one and the other thread about the guy with allergies. You may be confusing me with someone else. If you think I'm trolling you then I'm sorry. I just pointed out that what you said was wrong. You didn't bring it up though. I realize that.

I won't respond to any of your postings anymore if that's what you want, but I don't understand why someone can't argue with you about a point, sorry for disagreeing with you Dr.!

By the way, you probably shouldn't assume what I know or don't know. That's not a very good argument.

What's funny is I do agree with you that big pharms have gotten out of hand and greed takes over, I've seen it first hand.

But the idea that this can be a good thing still stands. Everyone is upset at this because it's about Nicotine and the need to control it, which goes directly in the face of the hobby that this site is built on.
[/quote]
Sorry but you weren't having a conversation with me about how, what I've read, researched, and seen first hand might be wrong or misconceived. I detailed parts of why I know what I know and you've ignored it and told me I'm wrong without any sort of evidence stating that. Please do me a favor and look up the graphs prior to vaccine introduction. I think you'll see one of the selling points that made me dig even deeper into the matter. Not to mention many of the "diseases" that are vaccinated for are not that bad (chicken pox, mumps, measels, etc)...but the medical fraternity uses fear to make you think it's something very terrible. Yes, there are terrible cases with everything (common cold, seasonal flu, chicken pox, etc), but those people already have something more severe going on in nearly all cases (I haven't heard of any cases that that wasn't the case but I'm covering my bases saying nearly all).

I'm very open to a devil's advocate, just not a person that says that I'm wrong without providing any information as to why. If you read my post and looked up Dr. Sears, you should see that I have done my homework. You've yet to provide any evidence to me to make me think you've done anything more than to just listen to you ill-informed (or informed by big pharma) MD. So if you'd like to continue with this conversation, please drop me a PM. I want to make sure I know this information extremely well and if you have information that I haven't see yet, I'd like to read into it. I read a few articles about it a week, I have 2 books, 1 I'm almost through, and 2-3 more books waiting on my wishlist on Amazon for when I finish these, and I've been to seminars about it. I have lost trust in vaccines, especially since the symptoms of the side effects have shown in me and people close to me.

But I guess the few things I said in my last post you understand and ignored (information about vaccines, artificial immunity, and the Hitler comment). I'd like to hear what you have to say if it's not attacking me like you've done and actually provide information, unlike what you've done. I'm free to gaining more knowledge as that's how it should be in our society. I don't believe in blindly following the words of the ill-informed.
[/quote]

When I said "wrong" I mean "wrong" in the moral sense. The Hitler comment was a stretch by you and I think you realize that; perhaps you won't admit it.

You obviously have done your research, so I wouldn't contend you're wrong in the factual sense. We just disagree on the line of how effective/evil vaccines are. I think they are useful to society if not flawed, and you think differently. (I won't characterize it because I don't want to misrepresent you).

Let's just agree to disagree and call it a day.

I won't respond to your postings again.

[DrSmokes]

[quote name='shalowlow' timestamp='1336607817' post='547020']

When I said "wrong" I mean "wrong" in the moral sense. The Hitler comment was a stretch by you and I think you realize that; perhaps you won't admit it.

[/quote]
This still doesn't make sense... My moral is wrong? You state that without an explanation. And the Hitler comment? Please explain why you think it's a stretch. I explained myself quite clearly and even gave you a link (unless you didn't click it and read the page).

If you say you won't respond, then cool. Just the way you comment is quite flawed. When you say that someone is wrong, you need to provide reasoning as to why. When you want to critique someone, you better have something backing up that critique and better make sure you are perfect if you want to be pointing out flaws.

But seeing as you don't want to respond to me anymore makes me think you can't come up with anything when it comes to this "argument". You want to make empty claims and jabs without any explanation. I'm sure this doesn't work for you "in real life"... Edited May 10, 2012 by DrSmokes

[joytron]

So, I feel the need to chime in as I was actually the person who brought up the Hitler comparison. Fundamentally, you are looking at a situation where you have a group of people determining what traits are deemed beneficial and then actively seeking to propagate them. You bring up the concept of natural versus unnatural, but we are dealing with human beings who live in a self construed environment. There is no separation at will. Certainly I do not believe either of you advocate absolutely no health care for anyone, which would leave me to believe the genetic health of an individual should determine the quality of care.

I think what is fundamentally missing is we are a pro social species dependent on human connection. Nate you talk about weakening our species, but the world you propose has no place for the savant. Where does that leave people like Einstein, your world is severely lacking in some of the greatest musicians, artists, and thinkers. I propose that the issue is as human beings one cannot dictate the worth of an individual. Qualities like empathy and social responsibility are some of the most undervalued traits and I think the play an even more important role in propagating the human species than qualities based on immune systems or physical strength. I volunteer doing restoration work at a lagoon near my house and work with a young autistic man who by your account is holding back humankind, and yet every opportunity he is there providing an invaluable service to the community and the people around him. My niece is autistic and has tremendous social and behavioral issues, and yet she is one of the most gifted people I have ever met. When we create a world that bars these people from survival because they deviate from the norm we cease to be human.

[DrSmokes]

[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1336613732' post='547023']
So, I feel the need to chime in as I was actually the person who brought up the Hitler comparison. Fundamentally, you are looking at a situation where you have a group of people determining what traits are deemed beneficial and then actively seeking to propagate them. You bring up the concept of natural versus unnatural, but we are dealing with human beings who live in a self construed environment. There is no separation at will. Certainly I do not believe either of you advocate absolutely no health care for anyone, which would leave me to believe the genetic health of an individual should determine the quality of care.
[/quote]
I think my statement came across wrong. When talking about natural selection, it's nature's doing. Such as a species trying to blend in with its environment. The ones that can, will live more, the ones that can't, won't live longer. The thing I see often in FL is the albino lizards are always on white or very light building walls (never in the grass), waiting by light sources for the moths and mosquito's to come and not see it because it blends in. The darker colored ones stay in the bushes and greenery because that's where it can blend in and sneak up on it's food sources. If buildings weren't around, the albino ones would be killed off (natural selection). When talking about Hitler, he was killing off a specific population, not nature doing it, which led me to state "artificial selection". Same thing as natural, except it was due to the hands of Hitler rather than the environment.

I brought up vaccines because those are artificial immunity, as defined by every dictionary and medical literature, it was on topic with this and I tied it back into a topic that was being derailed by Hitler comments. Some people have attacked me for what I know to be true and claim I'm wrong without any evidence or indication I may be...just hearsay so I wanted to state my piece. I believe in Healthcare...I believe highly in natural health care until that no longer works for someone. Matter has limitations and these limitations are being pushed when injected with toxic materials, pollution, processed food, and any other environmental stressor. What I do doesn't work on 100% of the population because of this fact, but how would anyone know if they took their bodies too far without trying natural first? I do what I do because I'm passionate about people's health and want to help and try to help where I can. There is a lot of information that I've been taught, that I've researched, and a lot of books out there that have their own opinions. Through this I know what generally works and is healthy for someone to do, and what can work but can be unhealthy.

I've tried giving another view on something that people have believed to be correct all their life (even myself). That little spark I'm hoping I've created will lead to at least one person educating themselves and making their own decision rather than letting someone else think for them.

[Chreees]

[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1336613732' post='547023']
So, I feel the need to chime in as I was actually the person who brought up the Hitler comparison. Fundamentally, you are looking at a situation where you have a group of people determining what traits are deemed beneficial and then actively seeking to propagate them. You bring up the concept of natural versus unnatural, but we are dealing with human beings who live in a self construed environment. There is no separation at will. Certainly I do not believe either of you advocate absolutely no health care for anyone, which would leave me to believe the genetic health of an individual should determine the quality of care.

I think what is fundamentally missing is we are a pro social species dependent on human connection. Nate you talk about weakening our species, but the world you propose has no place for the savant. Where does that leave people like Einstein, your world is severely lacking in some of the greatest musicians, artists, and thinkers. I propose that the issue is as human beings one cannot dictate the worth of an individual. Qualities like empathy and social responsibility are some of the most undervalued traits and I think the play an even more important role in propagating the human species than qualities based on immune systems or physical strength. I volunteer doing restoration work at a lagoon near my house and work with a young autistic man who by your account is holding back humankind, and yet every opportunity he is there providing an invaluable service to the community and the people around him. My niece is autistic and has tremendous social and behavioral issues, and yet she is one of the most gifted people I have ever met. When we create a world that bars these people from survival because they deviate from the norm we cease to be human.
[/quote]

Bravo for this post, Jess. +1. I would give it more rep if I could...

[mustang67n]

[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1336613732' post='547023']
So, I feel the need to chime in as I was actually the person who brought up the Hitler comparison. Fundamentally, you are looking at a situation where you have a group of people determining what traits are deemed beneficial and then actively seeking to propagate them. You bring up the concept of natural versus unnatural, but we are dealing with human beings who live in a self construed environment. There is no separation at will. Certainly I do not believe either of you advocate absolutely no health care for anyone, which would leave me to believe the genetic health of an individual should determine the quality of care.

I think what is fundamentally missing is we are a pro social species dependent on human connection. Nate you talk about weakening our species, but the world you propose has no place for the savant. Where does that leave people like Einstein, your world is severely lacking in some of the greatest musicians, artists, and thinkers. I propose that the issue is as human beings one cannot dictate the worth of an individual. Qualities like empathy and social responsibility are some of the most undervalued traits and I think the play an even more important role in propagating the human species than qualities based on immune systems or physical strength. I volunteer doing restoration work at a lagoon near my house and work with a young autistic man who by your account is holding back humankind, and yet every opportunity he is there providing an invaluable service to the community and the people around him. My niece is autistic and has tremendous social and behavioral issues, and yet she is one of the most gifted people I have ever met. When we create a world that bars these people from survival because they deviate from the norm we cease to be human.
[/quote]

You are definitely right Jess. My post before was naive.

I do feel that we are too reliant on technology and that we do live too long for our own good, though.