Rafael Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Hey Guys, How are you? Just want some hints here. In Brazil (where I live) they've (congress) approved a law that will prohibit flavor tobacco, for all kinds of smoke (cigarrettes, hookahs...). Here in Brazil this fuckers only put on the table things that might put they moral up, you know. Anyway, they've approved this law based in the argument that flavored tobacco attracts people under 18 years (kids). So, instead of control the sales of this product (there is already a law that prohibit people under 18 to buy tobacco) they've decided to make this other law. Jackasses. These facts brought up a question that no one here seems to know the answer. Smoking hookah is really worst than cigars and cigarettes? I mean, those affirmatives that say smoking hookah is equivalent to 100 cigarettes, are really truth? I'm asking because I've never see a research, properly made by hookah fans, or a research made with 1000 people that smoke cigarettes and 1000 people that smoke hookahs. Everyone here knows that the way we smoke, is different from a computer that runs tests. Hope you guys understand this poor english. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSmokes Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 All I've seen is made up numbers. One article will claim 100 cigarettes while another one I read said 1 pack is = to 1-2 hours of hookah. But I think they are basing this off of smoke volume. I think they need to base it off of other factors, such as circulating chemicals in the blood (and since cigarettes have almost 600 chemicals [i]added[/i] to it, I don't see hookah tobacco having as much but since I don't make the tobacco on the market, idk, maybe Eric can shed some light), blood pressure, heart rate, and other subjective symptoms (but again, subjective findings aren't as good as objective so this may have to be thrown out). If you do find anything good worth reading, please post it. I'm sure many of us would like to research it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Well, that takes Brazil off my list of places to retire to..... Time to start making your own. There are several recipes here on the forum and in other places as well. Basically it's just three ingredients: Tobacco, flavoring, and vegetable glycerin. There's been a lot of good luck using candy flavorings because they're very high heat tolerant for making hard candy. On the whether or not it's worse for you.... I know if I smoke a cigarette, cigar, or even dokha, I'll cough. I don't cough with hookah - ever. I trust my body and my body tells me that it doesn't find hookah smoke as irritating. There was also a video, maybe still available on YouTube, or somewhere, where a guy hooked up a filtering system to both hookah and cigarettes. And entire bowl of shisha through the hookah didn't stain the filter. Only a couple cigarettes stained it dramatically. So I'd say there's significant evidence that cigarettes are much, much worse. My guess is that the law is brought about not to protect children but to protect the financial investment of the "big tobacco" profits in Brazil. Seems like everything is about money and corporate greed these days all over the world. Modern civilization and governments suck. 'Rani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSmokes Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV1yES7xTZg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV1yES7xTZg[/url] Is that the video you were talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSmokes Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 And here's another one that I think may be a lil informative: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdLIwv4cKKk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rooker Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 That first video was awesome...i'll occasionally smoke a cigarette at a bar, but never again after seeing 1 cigarette on that napkin...that's fuckin disgusting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 [quote name='DrSmokes' timestamp='1336154601' post='546680'] Is that the video you were talking about? [/quote] Actually there was another one using a vacuum I believe through a filtering device. More scientific I suppose...... But either way, there is a noticeable difference between hookah and cigarettes. There have been some studies that the biggest problem with cigarettes is not only the additives, but the paper itself. So in theory anyway, on a scale of worst to best, it would appear that cigarettes are the worst, cigars have no paper or additives generally so they're a little bit better, regular pipes are slightly better still since they tend to have no additives, no paper being charred and have filters on them, followed lastly by hookah which doesn't char the tobacco, no paper and it's filtered through water, the best filter there is. What I find interesting is that people have been smoking hundreds of years with very little connection to any lung problems until the invention of cigarettes. All of a sudden tobacco is the big evil causing death and destruction everywhere. Some would say that because medical science was in it's infancy they didn't know. But they somehow managed to know all about black lung from working in mines, hemlock being poison, and hanging out with someone with visible pustules gives you smallpox, so I find it ludicrous they wouldn't make a connection to smokers and lung ailments if one existed at that time. "Modern" science seems to think everyone and everything that came before was just stupid. In my point of view it's when we start monkeying around with nature's gifts, like wrapping tobacco in paper after dumping hundreds of chemicals in it that we start doing the damage. History would seem at least to support that view anyway. 'Rani 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshinx23 Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 hmm why do hookah smokers care so much? I never see cig. smokers get pissed of by the facts and rumors that come along with it. They kinda just shrug it of and lit up a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rooker Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 [quote name='kenshinx23' timestamp='1336172429' post='546710'] hmm why do hookah smokers care so much? I never see cig. smokers get pissed of by the facts and rumors that come along with it. They kinda just shrug it of and lit up a new one. [/quote] Does seem to be quite on the defensive on our part, but at the same time it's the connotation that is applied to the hookah itself. And as users, that passes onto us, which is why we care. Because those who have no idea criticize us for doing something they think is dangerous when it really isn't. If people would research things for themselves rather than relying on biased views of the media then they would be smarter, more educated, and not look like dumbasses when they spew ignorance from their mouths. Sure, inhaling things is bad, no one can argue that, and the long term effects are unknown. I'm willing to bet the long term effects are nearly null. My favorite is when they try to relate the amount of smoke to 100 cigarettes, (lol) it is all about the quality of what is going down and coming up rather than quantity. Cigarettes no doubt pour all kinds of chemicals in your body, while a hookah, is all organic (water, tobacco, flavoring, molasses, glycerine). Anyways, that's my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzbizz Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I agree with 3rooker 100%. I smoke hookah because for the past 4 years of smoking, I don't cough up phlegm every morning and my lungs don't feel like shriveled prunes. I can wake up the next morning after a session and run 4 miles at an 8mph pace without any problems. I am one who believes the glycerin vapors are not nearly as harmful as cigarette smoke. I don't smoke cigars very often but as I've learned you don't inhale so I don't know the effects of cigars. However I don't get offended when I hear these estimated comparisons. If someone approaches me with these "studies"(and they have) I present my facts and the obvious differences of what is actually produced during a session of hookah and a lit cigarette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 just a thought i have had this article for a while, just actually wondering if its true. makes sense to me anyway. [url="http://hookahhealth.wordpress.com/article/hookah-smoking-from-a-biomedical-and-534k6mvefph-4/"]http://hookahhealth.wordpress.com/article/hookah-smoking-from-a-biomedical-and-534k6mvefph-4/[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzbizz Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 That is an excellent article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rooker Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 [quote name='dizzbizz' timestamp='1336181878' post='546720'] I agree with 3rooker 100%. I smoke hookah because for the past 4 years of smoking, I don't cough up phlegm every morning and my lungs don't feel like shriveled prunes. I can wake up the next morning after a session and run 4 miles at an 8mph pace without any problems. I am one who believes the glycerin vapors are not nearly as harmful as cigarette smoke. [b]I don't smoke cigars very often but as I've learned you don't inhale so I don't know the effects of cigars.[/b] However I don't get offended when I hear these estimated comparisons. [b]If someone approaches me with these "studies"(and they have) I present my facts and the obvious differences of what is actually produced during a session of hookah and a lit cigarette.[/b] [/quote] First off, right, you don't inhale a cigar, so you see a lot of long-term cigar smokers with throat cancer rather than lung cancer. I'm not a "cigar smoker" but I will enjoy a nice dark Cohiba or Partagas on the golf course or a fishing boat, with lots of beer. Man, sports are so unhealthy bahaha Secondly, I bet your facts and their facts are like opposing magnets, trying to get as far away from each other as possible. Anyone with an open mind will take science to mind and evaluate something, while [most] others will blow off what you say as justification for your "habit." They see a white puff come out of your mouth and call it smoke. If it is truly smoke, why doesn't it smell? Why doesn't it cling to fabric? Why doesn't it linger like actual smoke does? More points for your arguments next time lol. The fact is people are going to think and believe what they want to and that's okay. The only thing we can do is to try and educate them. If they want to be stubborn and ignorant, let them, but we are the more educated persons. I doubt we would knowingly continue to do what we do if it was super harmful for us, like letting tar flow into our bodies and stain our teeth! haha Now reference the quote in my sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzbizz Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshinx23 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 [font="sans-serif"][size="2"][color="#000000"]The composition of smoke depends on the nature of the burning fuel and the conditions of combustion. So that answers most of your questions there. Because composition is different. Now a lot of basketball ball players and football players smoke cigs. So just because you can run a few miles is not evidence of hookah being any safer. We see more "negative" results of cig. smoking because there are more people smoking it. So of-course the number of people in bad conditions are higher. Truth be old you actually don't have any idea whats in your shisha either. No company really shares everything that takes place in making it. Hell some of it can still contain pesticide for all you know. So when someone says hookah is bad for you, don't be so quick to say no. They maybe right. My answer in those positions is maybe, *puffs smoke* [/color][/size][/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vendetta_revived Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 [quote name='kenshinx23' timestamp='1336172429' post='546710'] hmm why do hookah smokers care so much? I never see cig. smokers get pissed of by the facts and rumors that come along with it. They kinda just shrug it of and lit up a new one. [/quote] May be because they know that regular/unflavoured cigarettes will never be banned no matter what? Yeah, seeing OP's post, it's clear that we don't have that cushion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 [quote name='kenshinx23' timestamp='1336172429' post='546710'] hmm why do hookah smokers care so much? I never see cig. smokers get pissed of by the facts and rumors that come along with it. They kinda just shrug it of and lit up a new one. [/quote] Is not that we care. But we see affirmatives with no proof. I don't care what people say about me smoking some hookah. I think my grandfather thinks I'm doing drugs...hheheh. But generally I don't give a fuck. What I can't stand is, someone come to me and says: "This is like smoking 100 cigs...." The very first words that come into my head is "FUCK YOU". Can you imagine that a doctor once told this to me? I was like, "man, where did you get this stuf" from your morning show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 [quote name='kenshinx23' timestamp='1336196167' post='546742'] [font=sans-serif][size=2][color=#000000]So when someone says hookah is bad for you, don't be so quick to say no. They maybe right. [/color][/size][/font] [/quote] Sure! Hookah is bad for us. I just would like to know, how bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSmokes Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 [quote name='kenshinx23' timestamp='1336196167' post='546742'] [font=sans-serif][size=2][color=#000000]The composition of smoke depends on the nature of the burning fuel and the conditions of combustion. So that answers most of your questions there. Because composition is different. Now a lot of basketball ball players and football players smoke cigs. So just because you can run a few miles is not evidence of hookah being any safer. We see more "negative" results of cig. smoking because there are more people smoking it. So of-course the number of people in bad conditions are higher. Truth be old you actually don't have any idea whats in your shisha either. No company really shares everything that takes place in making it. Hell some of it can still contain pesticide for all you know. So when someone says hookah is bad for you, don't be so quick to say no. They maybe right. My answer in those positions is maybe, *puffs smoke* [/color][/size][/font] [/quote] I agree with the pesticide deal...I brought that up with Eric when he was talking about carcinogens in tobacco and how it has to be heated to a certain temperature to become a carcinogen. It would be nice if the tobacco makers would say how much pesticides they use and what type. I wouldn't think that that is getting too "personal" with their business, it would just be nice for the consumer to know a lil more of what it is they are smoking. And let's just say there are pesticides still on the tobacco that we get for our hookah's. I'm willing to bet that all cig tobacco is coated with it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Posted May 6, 2012 Author Share Posted May 6, 2012 [quote name='DrSmokes' timestamp='1336236870' post='546763'] [quote name='kenshinx23' timestamp='1336196167' post='546742'] [font=sans-serif][size=2][color=#000000]The composition of smoke depends on the nature of the burning fuel and the conditions of combustion. So that answers most of your questions there. Because composition is different. Now a lot of basketball ball players and football players smoke cigs. So just because you can run a few miles is not evidence of hookah being any safer. We see more "negative" results of cig. smoking because there are more people smoking it. So of-course the number of people in bad conditions are higher. Truth be old you actually don't have any idea whats in your shisha either. No company really shares everything that takes place in making it. Hell some of it can still contain pesticide for all you know. So when someone says hookah is bad for you, don't be so quick to say no. They maybe right. My answer in those positions is maybe, *puffs smoke* [/color][/size][/font] [/quote] I agree with the pesticide deal...I brought that up with Eric when he was talking about carcinogens in tobacco and how it has to be heated to a certain temperature to become a carcinogen. It would be nice if the tobacco makers would say how much pesticides they use and what type. I wouldn't think that that is getting too "personal" with their business, it would just be nice for the consumer to know a lil more of what it is they are smoking. And let's just say there are pesticides still on the tobacco that we get for our hookah's. I'm willing to bet that all cig tobacco is coated with it too. [/quote] Well, i don't think they will ever do this. I mean, they might think this will put the consumers away you know.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntur Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 i saw i video a long time ago where a guy used a vacuum to suck air through a hookah and a cigarette through coffee filters. he timed how long it took the cigarette to burn down and then did the hookah for the same length of time. i didnt have any luck pulling it up again, but i remember the hookahs coffee filter showed almost no discoloration and the cigarettes was badly stained. heres another video i managed to find again. this guys uses a vacuum to burn through 100 cigarettes through a hookah and then show the base water. its pretty gnarly looking. theres no hookah in the video but, i think we all know what our base water looks like when we finish a bowl. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwDm0D9ASiA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwDm0D9ASiA[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rooker Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Wow...that is.....disgusting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 [quote name='3rooker' timestamp='1336357329' post='546803'] Wow...that is.....disgusting [/quote] yea this vid has been floating around on here for a while. pretty much makes me sick...and you know that hookah never smoked the same again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rooker Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 [quote name='headhunter' timestamp='1336359703' post='546808'] [quote name='3rooker' timestamp='1336357329' post='546803'] Wow...that is.....disgusting [/quote] yea this vid has been floating around on here for a while. pretty much makes me sick...and you know that hookah never smoked the same again [/quote] no joke talk about a horrible flavor being ghosted and the tar buildup in the stem lol...i'm gonna show it to my mom and see if she'll stop smoking lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshinx23 Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 well at least that busts the myth that water does not help filter anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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