Shitting The Tangiers Bed

[Twitchy]

i got birquq-summer mixed fruit

lucid-orange soda, it tastes like that one breakfest cereal, new lime, cactus fruit

[joytron]

[quote name='Webbles' timestamp='1337729293' post='547805']
Remember, tangiers warms up. So if you get LOTS of smoke right away, chances are your going to start burning the bowl. Pull back some halves once it starts to get harsh.
[/quote]

Great advice, you will be rewarded if you are patient

[no longer welcome]

[quote name='Twitchy' timestamp='1337712527' post='547768']
how many coals do you use john? packed to rim ? or what
[/quote]the same way i pack Tangiers in other Tangiers bowls, the way I was thought by Eric, packed to the rim, pushed down, adding more, until when all the shisha is pushed down so tight that you see the ring mark of the inner hole. This is known as the palm test that Eric has taught me and that I made a video for to share on youtube.
I use 2-3-4 coconut coals, 2 when heat sensitive, 3 normally, and 4 after the 3 have been burning for 20-30 minutes.

[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1337712926' post='547770']
[quote name='HookahJohn' timestamp='1337711568' post='547767']
[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1337709134' post='547762']
[quote name='Twitchy' timestamp='1337708606' post='547760']
smoking outta a alien phunnel
[/quote]

Well there is your problem right there.


Firstly I would try halve coals and I think using a small would be easier.

Have you tried a foil test?
Also try "overpacking" and see how that compares
[/quote]I don't see how an Alien is the problem. I smoke 2-3 bowls of Tangiers in an Alien daily.No problems here.
[/quote]
I would recommend learning to smoke tangiers with a small over a pico as well. I think when getting used to a lower heat tobacco having a bowl with a larger margin of error is beneficial.

But regardless, I think the alien I used was a poorly designed bowl and [b]your validation of it is kind of suspect being that you designed and sell the product.[/b]

*I can not comment on any changes you have made in the product, only what I experienced first hand.
[/quote]
Stop one second. Really? Thanks for that shot, but it wasn't even close. Do not use the word suspect with me. I have nothing to hide nor any agenda when it comes to hookah or any of my products. The Alien works for me and thousands of others who give it good reviews. I won't compare it, nor say it's better or worse than the other bowls mention.
What is suspect is that you have a problem with me personally, or at least on the internet, joytron, and your point is just a shot at me, plain and simple.
You don't like your Alien give me your order number and I'll refund your money, but don't use that tone with me again.

Everyone one is entitled to their opinion, but don't call me suspect when it's really you that is suspect here,

[Coleman]

The word suspect seems out of place if I had to guess I would have to say he actually meant subjective because no producer would ever talk bad of their own product, it's just bad business. So no need for harmful words or name calling

[Twitchy]

just smoked outta a small tang bowl.

is there such thing as packing it to dense? cause i packed it pretty dense since im assuming it should be as dense as possible.

i packed it level with the spire, after taking the bowl off juices were dripping down the spire ALOT.

i started with 2 full coconara coals, left it to warm up for 15 ish tried smoking for abit and rotating the coals, tried a windcover for alittle but it was sizzling like crazy so i assumed it was getting to hot/ burned.. it kept doing this so i took the coals off and put them on once they were smaller.. then it seemed like it wasn't enough heat so i heated up 2 more coals cut in halfs , but even with that and trying that with a windcover either seemed not hot enough or too hot.. and smoke was never to great .

so basically wondering if it can be packed to dense, and the juices coming down spire does that mean it was to full / to much heat ? :S

[Chreees]

You overpacked if you had streamers (juice coming down the sides of the bowl).

I dunno if you can really pack too dense... Just keep in mind the tobacco expands a bit once heated.

Also, stay on topic, please...

[Hellz]

nah, i've found overpacking really doesnt screw anything up besides getting your coals a bit damp if it juices out of the holes too. other than that overpacking is always better than under packing. if I accidently overpack it's not the end of the world. I still get a good smoke. But cleanup is a bit on the messy side. oh well though

[Twitchy]

i feel like a noob all over again : ' (

so then i should pack below the spire?

ive been pressing fairly hard packing it down so maybe not as... dense ? :s

the juice didn't come out of the holes just down the spire .

[Chreees]

[quote name='Twitchy' timestamp='1337755470' post='547824']
i feel like a noob all over again : ' (

so then i should pack below the spire?

ive been pressing fairly hard packing it down so maybe not as... dense ? :s

the juice didn't come out of the holes just down the spire .
[/quote]

I have juice come down my spire time to time. No big deal really, happens more with Lucid, the wetter stuff. It's juice coming over the outside of the bowl that you may wanna worry about. Pack it RIGHT to the inner spire, right below the outer rim.

[joytron]

[quote name='HookahJohn' timestamp='1337741263' post='547814']
[quote name='Twitchy' timestamp='1337712527' post='547768']
how many coals do you use john? packed to rim ? or what
[/quote]the same way i pack Tangiers in other Tangiers bowls, the way I was thought by Eric, packed to the rim, pushed down, adding more, until when all the shisha is pushed down so tight that you see the ring mark of the inner hole. This is known as the palm test that Eric has taught me and that I made a video for to share on youtube.
I use 2-3-4 coconut coals, 2 when heat sensitive, 3 normally, and 4 after the 3 have been burning for 20-30 minutes.

[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1337712926' post='547770']
[quote name='HookahJohn' timestamp='1337711568' post='547767']
[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1337709134' post='547762']
[quote name='Twitchy' timestamp='1337708606' post='547760']
smoking outta a alien phunnel
[/quote]


Well there is your problem right there.


Firstly I would try halve coals and I think using a small would be easier.

Have you tried a foil test?
Also try "overpacking" and see how that compares
[/quote]I don't see how an Alien is the problem. I smoke 2-3 bowls of Tangiers in an Alien daily.No problems here.
[/quote]
I would recommend learning to smoke tangiers with a small over a pico as well. I think when getting used to a lower heat tobacco having a bowl with a larger margin of error is beneficial.

But regardless, I think the alien I used was a poorly designed bowl and [b]your validation of it is kind of suspect being that you designed and sell the product.[/b]

*I can not comment on any changes you have made in the product, only what I experienced first hand.
[/quote]
Stop one second. Really? Thanks for that shot, but it wasn't even close. Do not use the word suspect with me. I have nothing to hide nor any agenda when it comes to hookah or any of my products. The Alien works for me and thousands of others who give it good reviews. I won't compare it, nor say it's better or worse than the other bowls mention.
What is suspect is that you have a problem with me personally, or at least on the internet, joytron, and your point is just a shot at me, plain and simple.
You don't like your Alien give me your order number and I'll refund your money, but don't use that tone with me again.

Everyone one is entitled to their opinion, but don't call me suspect when it's really you that is suspect here,
[/quote]
Nothing in that statement was directed to you in any way as a person, I am solely stating stating that when there is a product you design and sell obviously there is a motivation for it to be successful. I have met you in real life and you seem to be a nice enough guy and my thoughts on on the alien do not equate to a measure of your character. You mentioned thousands of people have been satisfied with the alien and you have a point, their testaments weigh far heavier than your own.

Also as far as saying do not use that tone with me again, I am not your child so I would prefer you not to treat me like one.

I know you brought up that you do not want to compare bowls, but that is my very point. In my case a small phunnel has been more been suited for smoking tangiers, and I certainly think it is easier to learn with especially if you are having issues.

Anyways I think you may be reading to far into the whole thing.

[dreamyxcupcakes]

as far as density goes I tend to pack mine firm like a handshake not as hard as possible, just firm. Generally up to just a hair under the spire, and use your finger or oyster fork to level out the tobacco. Foil test is always a good way to make sure it's well packed and even, then i just do tight rings around the bowl with my oyster fork. Lots of holes.

[mushrat]

The word suspect here was used properly. It merely means that any comments made about a product by the maker of that product is questionable. It is not a personal attack nor was it calling John a suspect. While a valid comment, it is not necessarily a true comment. We always question when the maker talks about their product. I can't say personally how good the bowl is because i don't have one. John, you are going to have to accept that not everyone will like your bowl and that they are free to express their dislike without being lectured by you. Also, I suggest you look up the definition of suspect before jumping to an incorrect conclusion and construing this as a personal attack. Now back to the matter at hand.

[mushrat]

And John, It may have been more constructive to offer some helpful advice to this person on how they may improve their experience USING an alien, since it is something you said you have success with. Or was the above post about using the palm test related to the alien and not the phunnel?

[mushrat]

I guess i should add soemthing useful. Ive used tangiers Mediums, smalls, minis, and picos, and i have smoked every line of tobacco he makes. I pack them all the same. I pack them in hard, using the palm of my hand in the end to push the tobacco to the top edge of the bowl. Lately i then use my fingers to make a slight depression around the center spire, which also makes a slight ridge around the spire. I have found that this helps keep the foil from being sucked down onto the central hole as you smoke. And yes, i get great results with slivers of coal.

[Hellz]

It was late, and I forgot to mention how I pack. I personally do not use the palm test anymore, I suggest you start out with it though. But I use my thumb, I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to packing. But I've found it always work for me. Pack it hard, barely below the rim, but right up to the spire. Works great with my small and 7ico. It's generally level throughout the bowl. I rarely ever have a disappointing smoke anymore. only time it does get bad is improper heat management

[vendetta_revived]

[quote name='aeon' timestamp='1337721045' post='547790']
It's sprinkled into the bowl fluffy, BUT then it's packed down using my palm or a fork, and then further packed using my fingers until it's sitting around even with the inner spire (which, if your bowl has the correct ratios, sould be about a quarters depth). I don't pack it light/fluffy, I just make sure when I put it into the bowl it's light/fluffy to ensure an even pack with no clumps in it.
[/quote]

^^ This. I tried many things when I got my tangiers but none of them worked [b]for me[/b]. This right here is what I did the trick. I realize not every method works for everyone, but I suggest you give this a try. I may be wrong, but this has a higher percentage of working for you, since both you, and Tyler (Aeon) are in Alberta, so similar conditions may be?

[Coyote]

[quote name='HookahJohn' timestamp='1337741263' post='547814']
[quote name='Twitchy' timestamp='1337712527' post='547768']
how many coals do you use john? packed to rim ? or what
[/quote]the same way i pack Tangiers in other Tangiers bowls, [b]the way I was thought by Eric,[/b] packed to the rim, pushed down, adding more, until when all the shisha is pushed down so tight that you see the ring mark of the inner hole. This is known as the palm test that Eric has taught me and that I made a video for to share on youtube.
I use 2-3-4 coconut coals, 2 when heat sensitive, 3 normally, and 4 after the 3 have been burning for 20-30 minutes.

[/quote]

That just means some cutie pie pack your bowls.

[Webbles]

If you can try to remember, what the shisha looked like when you first cut the plastic? That tube of shisha? That block before you chopped it up and stired it? Well thats how firm it should be.

Now with this last bowl as reference: Say you packed 35g of shisha in that small.

For your next bowl, pack 30g instead. Pack a tad bit less shisha. Again push it down to the spire (mabey a tad tiny bit below). This bowl should still be firm, but since its 5g or so less, it wont be as dense and therefore wont leak as much.

[Coyote]

Ok there are a few issues here that need to be addressed... I'm going to add my ABCs in here because that seems to help lots of people. But first:

Acclimation- Webbles +1. If you are getting fine clouds, no harshness it might be an acclimation issue

Bowl- You can pack Tangiers successfully in any bowl. The results will vary however. Some bowls you make have to be more diligent with heat managment, some bowls don't produced thick clouds, some bowls will have to be packed differently... Of course the Tangiers Phunnels are the best and have been specially made to work with Tangiers tobacco. BUT I'M THE REP SO YOU'LL HAVE TO BUY ONE AND TRY IT YOURSELF. right? I have a Tangiers Medium, Tangiers #8, 1st gen Alien, and 1st gen Flying Saucer Bowl. All these bowls give me good clouds and good flavor. I broke all my Egyptians but I had to pack them different and the flavor/clouds were less than perfect. The crown bowls I have used will give me good flavor but the clouds are less than perfect.

Any good business owner listens to what the consumers want and will do their best to provide what is in demand... or improve on what is already being supplied to the consumers. All the Reps/Owners on these forums are here primarily to listen and to respond and not to push products. The ones that show up to push products get banned anyway...

Anyway... smoke Tangiers out of Tangiers phunnels.

[Coyote]

Oh yeah and the ABC's... [b]ABC's of Packing Tangiers Tobacco[/b]
[center]
[b]A) Acclimation:[/b][/center]

[b]Instant Acclimation-[/b] Allow me to share my Haiku

With unopened bag
Instant acclimation works
Squish for 2 minutes

Give it the sniff test. If it smells like the flavor it doesn't need acclimation. If it smells of soy/ketchup/overwhelming tobacco then you need to acclimate.

[b]4/20 acclimation[/b]
Open your Tangiers and empty it into a wide airtight container and stir it up well, making sure to break up any clumps and combined all the juice with the tobacco*. Allow your container to be open, stirring everyone hour or so, for approximately 4 hours. Stir again and seal for 20hrs. Do not open your container, do not peek at all. After the 20 hours, open your container, stir thoroughly and give it the smell test. If your Tangiers smells off (bbq, ketchup, soy, etc) then repeat the steps for 4/20 acclimation**.

*Since humidity fluctuates throughout the day, start your acclimation process at the same time that you wish to smoke. If you like to smoke after dinner, then start the acclimation process after dinner. This will insure that you are catching a humidity window that is similar to your ideal smoke time. Unless of course there is a drastic weather change...

**Some flavors require more or less acclimation. Some flavors will smoke fine even if they smell slightly off. If you are unsure you can ask the forum or send me PM.
[center][b] Bowl[/b][/center]

For an Alien and Tangiers Phunnel- densely pack your tobacco into the bowl. It will be about as firm in the bowl as it is in the unopened package. Then put foil on top and press it down with your palm. You should be able to see the imprints of the outer edge and inner spire. Look under the foil and the distance between the top of the bowl and the top of the tobacco should be the thickness of a Quarter coin.

Replace foil and poke big holes ([b]bigger[/b] than a toothpick) and close together. 3 rings usually fit on an Alien. Generally you will poke as many holes as will fit on the foil. The more holes the better. Some people put a hole in the spire to create less restrictive draw, to manage the flux between idle time and pull time, or to reduce the amount of suction on the foill. Retighten foil after poking holes.

[center][b]C) Coals-[/b][/center]

Generally people use 2-3 CH coals Stonehenge style to start. The amount of heat you need will depend on the Tangiers flavor being use, the type of coal and the condition of the outside environment. Unless you are smoking Birquq there is no reason to split natural coconut coals. Fumari/Golden Canary coals will most likely be the best for heat management however there are some drawbacks to using them aswell.

See if that helps. If you have any more trouble we are always here to help.

[littlec]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDnWTKNQgAQ&feature=youtu.be"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDnWTKNQgAQ&feature=youtu.be[/url]

[â€On]

[quote name='vendetta_revived' timestamp='1337779773' post='547837']
[quote name='aeon' timestamp='1337721045' post='547790']
It's sprinkled into the bowl fluffy, BUT then it's packed down using my palm or a fork, and then further packed using my fingers until it's sitting around even with the inner spire (which, if your bowl has the correct ratios, sould be about a quarters depth). I don't pack it light/fluffy, I just make sure when I put it into the bowl it's light/fluffy to ensure an even pack with no clumps in it.
[/quote]

^^ This. I tried many things when I got my tangiers but none of them worked [b]for me[/b]. This right here is what I did the trick. I realize not every method works for everyone, but I suggest you give this a try. I may be wrong, but this has a higher percentage of working for you, since both you, and Tyler (Aeon) are in Alberta, so similar conditions may be?
[/quote]

It was the first method I tried and it still works best for me, so I'm glad that it helped you out as much as it did me

Twitchy, I'm just going to touch on acclimation and how it fares for me, since it will probably be more relevant to you than what a lot of people in different climates might experience.

First: There are some flavors that will not acclimate for me. I have no idea why, and I have tried every trick in the book, they just do not work (two examples are Tropical Revenge and Raspberry in the Noir line). Some people have claimed that they had problems with Orange Soda, but I have found that it acclimated very easily here, so I think certain humidity and temperature levels are just more conducive to specific flavors than others.

Second: For starters, use the instant acclimation method Katie (coyote) described. It absolutely helps with everything I've tried it on. I do about 3-5 minutes of mushing per 250g bag. A popular and often recommended technique for acclimation is the 4/20 method. If you're not familiar, it's 4 hours sitting open to the air, mixed every 20-30 minutes, followed by 20 hours sitting covered/sealed in a container. This method has only worked for me with the Birquq line. I have had 5 (soon to be 7) of the birquq flavors, and all of them taste amazing, had no issues acclimatizing, etc., so, while you are learning, I would recommend focusing on the Birquq line so you can rule out acclimation as an issue. It will also help you learn to be more sparing with your coals/heat, which will come in handy with other tobacco's that are more forgiving. That being said, the 4/20 method is always my starting point. I do it, and then if it doesn't work I move on to more aggressive acclimation (most of the time, leaving it open over night does the trick). Open it up before bed, give it a good stir, then leave it out until morning. Give it another really good stir when you wake up, then seal it back up and leave it for a day or two. With some really stubborn flavors I have had to take all of the tobacco out, spread it out on tinfoil on a cookie sheet and leave it out to acclimate like that for an hour or two, then seal it back up for a day or two. That is always my very last measure, and I have only had to do it once or twice.

Third: Get a windcover if you don't have one. Learn how to control and regulate your heat with it. It improved my sessions multiple times over, as it lets those dying coals keep giving you smoke, and it allows you to put less heat on the bowl, bringing the heat up only as you need it. While giving you more control, it is also going to give you a better understanding of what modifying different factors will do (if you overpack, how will it smoke compared to underpacked, or less dense, etc).

Just to clarify on how I pack the bowl:
1: Stir up acclimated tobacco until everything is thoroughly juicy and fluffy
2: Using your fingers, pick up some and sort of "grind" your fingers to ensure it's broken up as you sprinkle it evenly into to the bowl
3: Fill the bowl up until the tobacco is evenly sitting about 1-2cm over the bowl (This is important, as how high it sits is how dense it is going to be. Being aware of this will help you adjust if this bowl doesn't work out for you or if you are trying to smoke a different line which might require a slightly different density.)
4: Once the height is correct and it is all moderately even across the top, push down using the palm of your hand. Don't spin your hand or anything, just push down evenly. Also, don't worry about covering up the center hole, It's easy to clean out.
5: Using your fingers, move any tobacco that has "overflowed" out onto the outer rim back into the bowl. Try to evenly move out any tobacco sitting overtop of the center spire.
6: Using your fingers, push down the tobacco until it is sitting even with, or slightly below, the spire. I often do what Mushrat mentioned, pushing down the tobacco near the spire and sort of pushing it into the outer wall. This is very subtle, so don't overdo it if you try this.
7: Wash your hands. Grab a paper towel, twist up one portion of it, then use that to clean out the inside of the spire. Wipe down the outsides and the top of the outer rim.
8: Get some HD foil (I use ALCAN HD, Reynolds HD is about the same). It doesn't matter which side you face up or down.
9: Ensure the foil is as tight as you can get it without it ripping. Good HD foil will take a lot pressure for it to rip. Make sure the top is as smooth and tight as you can get it, then press all the foil tight to the outer edges of the bowl. This will help the foil stay secure on the bowl, making it less likely that it will dent in once you put coals on.
10: At the point where the outside of the bowl meets the top of the stem on the outside, I fold any excess tin foil up to this point and fold it over the other parts. There is no real reason for this, but it looks cleaner and it probably helps to keep the other tinfoil in place.
11: At that same spot, wrap your hand around and squeeze as you poke your holes. This will stop you from pushing the foil into the bowl as you poke the holes. A good rule of thumb for size of hole is that a toothpick sized hole is slightly too big (i'm talking about the shaft size of the round, good quality toothpicks), and a pushpin sized hole is slightly too small. Now, this is just a rule of thumb. The important thing is to have lots of airflow, you can achieve this with lots of small holes, or with less larger holes. Try finding a sewing needle that is the right size. What I do is, starting at the outside, poke holes around the outside as close together as I can without breaking through the others. I continue this as I work my way inward, keeping the holes close and the size of hole constant. I go right up to the edge of the center spire, but do not poke any holes over the center. My goal is to effectively make a "mesh" screen out of holes. On average I will have anywhere from 150-300 holes in my foil (depending on what size of hole I make). That is just how I poke my holes, and I know many will think that's overkill, but it's what I like and what works for me. Everyone has their own "pattern" that works for them, but I recommend as a starting point that you pick something that is easy for you to do and to keep constant. Don't worry about getting ash in your bowl or anything like that, just focus on maintaing a good constant pattern that gives you good airflow. If you're unsure about what good airflow should be, put an empty bowl with no foil on it on your otherwise prepared hookah and take a pull on it. When it is smoking, your draw should not be much more restricted than that.
12: Break your coco's in half (put an old knife level across the center of the coal, hit the back of the knife with a hammer, it should cause it to split into two halves, don't worry if they are not perfect), light them on a coil burner, make sure they are entirely glowing and beginning to have grey ash forming on them. I always blow on them right after I have taken them off. This will tell you a few things: if there are any black areas, blowing on them should make them "recede". If they don't, the coals need to be cooked a bit longer. I place three halves on the outside of the bowl (12, 4 and 8 O'clock positions). They can either be turned sideways, following the edges of the bowl, or turned inwards pointing towards the center. No matter what you choose to do, be prepared to move them should the smoke even begin to get harsh. Once you have been smoking for a while you will develop a sort of sixth sense for knowing when the bowl is about to start getting scorched. Until then, just be aware of what's going on in your bowl and know that you are in control of what's going on. After the first round of coals, put three coal halves on again, though, you may find that that is too much heat and may have to remove one half and reposition the other two. I always find that I will get the best smoke right after putting my second set of coals on. Keep that in mind and know that if your session is not peaking there, or getting better at that point, something is wrong.
13: ????
14: Success!
15: Now go clean yourself up, because you just had the best sex of your life. Wait, what?

Overall, don't worry about clouds, worry about flavor. If you are getting good flavor and smaller clouds, don't sweat it, you're in a much better position than having thunderclouds and harsh smoke.

Seriously though, you're only a couple hours away. If you're ever coming to e-town, shoot me a message and we'll have a smoke!

[mushrat]

jumppin jeebus..this aint rocket science.....

[Twitchy]

thanks for that write up aeon, and everyone else replying !!

since this is my first time with tangiers its hard to tell if its acclimated... i did squish the packs before opening and they all had scents like i believed they should but maybe ill leave them open a few hours and see what happens

[Webbles]

Twitchy, If it smells delicous 30+ min after opening and stirring. Then its acclimated. Its all about the smell. Orange soda should REEK of sweet oranges (also its easy to acclimate).

Also packing and acclimation is the same for all three lines of Tangiers (4 actually) BUT birquq requires less heat. So the same 2 coals stone henged will burn the Birquq line.

IMO, i say start with orange soda. Thats actually the flavor I learned Tangiers with. That and Mimon.