Why I'll Never Buy Starbuzz Again.

[romzz]

I am fortunate enough to live in the San Fernando Valley, where the weather is beautiful (albeit hot as the dickens), the women are fine and there are more hookah bars/shops than I can count with 10 hands and feet. The store that I frequent is great, the owner is extremely friendly and knowledgable and we always end up talking for close to an hour when I stop in to re-up on Tangiers, coals, what have you.

Yesterday I stopped in and we got into a discussion about different brands, what our favorites were and what our least favorites were, when he said that he hate Starbuzz and he'll never smoke the stuff. He went on to tell me that Starbuzz has a rabid history of suing fellow companies, and attempting to dominate the world of shisha. If you've ever wondered why Fantasia only comes in 200g, as opposed to 250g, this is why. It's also why Fantasia uses the black plastic twist cans (which I prefer). Paradise was sued for using a metal tin, like Starbuzz, as well as many others over names of shisha, and the way they are packaged.

I think the thing that bothered me the most (and made the most sense once he said it) is that Starbuzz will spray their cans with a scented perfume. Have you ever washed out a Starbuzz can to reuse for other tobaccos? It still smells like perfume, and I always wondered why the smell wouldn't wash out, or how you could even really smell it that strongly when the shisha is vacuum sealed. I've always thought that Starbuzz smelled better than it tasted, and I guess now I know why.

Regardless, I found this out and it really put me off towards Starbuzz. Over the past year I've grown less and less interested in the brand as I've gotten more into Fantasia, Fumari and Tangiers, but I guess you could say that these things were the final nail in the coffin for me and Starbuzz. I also thought it'd be a good conversation starter to get your guys thoughts on this as well.

And lastly, I apologize if you all already know this or if this is a tired subject, I am knew to this forum and didn't see anything when I searched.

EDITED FOR GRAMMAR Edited July 12, 2012 by romzz

[shalowlow]

Those kinds of actions don't stop anyone from buying Apple, Microsoft, Google Products, etc.

Why is it different when it is a tobacco company?

[romzz]

[quote name='shalowlow' timestamp='1342115713' post='551536']
Those kinds of actions don't stop anyone from buying Apple, Microsoft, Google Products, etc.

Why is it different when it is a tobacco company?
[/quote]

For me, it's more about spraying the tin with perfume that irks me out. According to the owner of the shop, they have been extremely adamant about not only being the "top" shisha brand, but they are actively trying to shut down other brands and have succesfully done so already. You're right, it's not that much more different, but more people are aware of brands like Apple, Microsoft etc. doing things like that. More importantly, I'm not trying to put anyone off from buying Starbuzz, for me personally, I only liked one flavor and was waining from that, so after hearing this I just lost all interest. I just think that it's something worth knowing, whether you want to continue buying Starbuzz or not.

[Arcane]

For me, I don't buy Starbuzz because I don't think it tastes good.


It's a rather simple justification, but it works for me.

[shalowlow]

I agree that what they do is dirty, but I don't think that they should be singled out as a company that does what they have to do to get ahead.

Apples are sprayed with something to make them look shinier than they really are.

There are countless examples of food companies doing things to artificially enhance aroma, taste and color of their products.

It is good to know what they are doing, I agree there too, but they shouldn't be singled out.

[romzz]

[quote name='shalowlow' timestamp='1342117566' post='551542']
It is good to know what they are doing, I agree there too, but they shouldn't be singled out.
[/quote]

I agree with you completely, and I do apologize if this came off in a bad way, if I knew for a fact of other brands doing it (which I'm sure they do) I would have mentioned them as well. I'm simply relaying information that I was given to me yesterday. For me, it's purely knowing what I'm getting into and taking into my body, especially with things like shisha.

[shalowlow]

[quote name='romzz' timestamp='1342117923' post='551543']
[quote name='shalowlow' timestamp='1342117566' post='551542']
It is good to know what they are doing, I agree there too, but they shouldn't be singled out.
[/quote]

I agree with you completely, and I do apologize if this came off in a bad way, if I knew for a fact of other brands doing it (which I'm sure they do) I would have mentioned them as well. I'm simply relaying information that I was given to me yesterday. For me, it's purely knowing what I'm getting into and taking into my body, especially with things like shisha.
[/quote]

There is no need to apologize, it's just my opinion in the matter. I actually think more people than not would agree with you!

[Arcane]

The marketing side things doesn't bug me, but I can't really think of other companies that try to eliminate competition through, what I consider, ridiculous means. Remember Starbuzz trying to copyright flavor names like Double Apple or Lemon Mint?

Wouldn't that be similar to McDonald's suing Sonic's for calling a shake "Vanilla"?

[mushrat]

This has been brought up occasionally. I understand they have tried to copyright the names of certain flavours as well.

[mushrat]

This is entertaining...

http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuits/trademark-lawsuits/california-central-district-court/69301/pom-wonderful-llc-v-starbuzz-tobacco-inc-et-al/summary/

wonder who won?

[mushrat]

http://law.justia.com/lawsearch?cx=011046897265700545572:7wos8fr6e24&query=starbuzz+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Flaw.justia.com&queryappend=site:law.justia.com&sa=Search%20Justia&cof=FORID:11

now i really wonder who son some of these. can't find the cases online yet, still looking.

[Rani]

Here's my take.... I DO believe companies pulling shenanigans should be singled out, because until they are, they will keep doing it. Silence gives them carte blanche. And then we cry and complain when we're taken advantage of. So 1,000 companies do this. Does that mean accepting it? Bitch and complain and call them out every chance you get. Then throw your support behind those companies who don't play those games. Choose Tangiers and Nakhla over Starbuzz over and over and over again. The bad guys will eventually either come correct, or lose their business as more and more people go elsewhere.

'Rani

EDIT: Remember.... There would be no market for organic foods if people weren't screaming to get the pesticides and wax off the "shiny" apples, etc., now would there?

[shalowlow]

[quote name='Arcane' timestamp='1342120212' post='551547']
The marketing side things doesn't bug me, but I can't really think of other companies that try to eliminate competition through, what I consider, ridiculous means. Remember Starbuzz trying to copyright flavor names like Double Apple or Lemon Mint?

Wouldn't that be similar to McDonald's suing Sonic's for calling a shake "Vanilla"?
[/quote]

McDonalds is a huge company, but it would be wasting its time trying to do something like that against another company that could afford to defend the suit.

However, Starbuzz is doing something different. What people don't realize is that you can be dead right about something legally but it still takes money to defend or assert a right.

So Starbuzz can go and bully these companies with bogus lawsuits.

What is the company being sued going to do? Pay thousands of dollars to defend the lawsuit? Or just call their double apple flavor apples with licorice...

This does two things for starbuzz. It makes the other company think hard before making any move and asserts it's dominance in the market, while making other tobacco companies hesitate to start a business at all in starbuzz's market.

Is this okay? I would say it is not. Is it even fair? Nope.

But it is the reality of the situation.

I can' fault starbuzz for taking advantage of the system that's in place. The reality is is that like you said earlier Jay, if starbuzz produced a better product that was cheaper, we would love it.

[mushrat]

so wait, is it the taste or the cost that makes people dislike it around here? Or the shady business practices?

[shalowlow]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1342121756' post='551551']
Here's my take.... I DO believe companies pulling shenanigans should be singled out, because until they are, they will keep doing it. Silence gives them carte blanche. And then we cry and complain when we're taken advantage of. So 1,000 companies do this. Does that mean accepting it? Bitch and complain and call them out every chance you get. Then throw your support behind those companies who don't play those games. Choose Tangiers and Nakhla over Starbuzz over and over and over again. The bad guys will eventually either come correct, or lose their business as more and more people go elsewhere.

'Rani

EDIT: Remember.... There would be no market for organic foods if people weren't screaming to get the pesticides and wax off the "shiny" apples, etc., now would there?
[/quote]

Like I said, if starbuzz tasted better and was cheaper, no one would care.

There was a reason the wax was put on apples in the first place, it wasn't because the bosses liked shiny things. It is all about the consumer and what they wanted and what they responded to.

Now the organic scene is playing off that change of attitudes from ooh something shiny, to oh something natural. So the market changed. It's not because someone brought this to the light and condemned the practice. That came later, corresponding to what the people wanted. Now there is a market for both I guess.

This of course brings on an interesting discussion about Capatalism and marketing. The fact remains though, as Mush points out, as Starbuzz grows and becomes more known, they will get their karma right back as the bigger companies start to sink their teeth into starbuzz. What goes around...

[mustang67n]

I dislike the taste of starbuzz.. I also dislike the cost of it.. at 22 a 250 here in vegas, it is outrageously priced for such an inferior (IMO) product.

Shady business practices is also a major factor..

any one of these 3 reasons alone would be enough for me to not buy their products, and sadly, Starbuzz fits all 3

[Chreees]

[quote name='mushrat' timestamp='1342122159' post='551555']
so wait, is it the taste or the cost that makes people dislike it around here? Or the shady business practices?
[/quote]

All three for me.

Btw, I believe Pom won and Starbuzz had to change their logo for that flavor, IIRC. Starbuzz has actually won some suits against other tobacco companies over the simple names, though. I suspect this is why Eric changed the names of some of his Tangiers flavors, too (not saying he was sued, but he probably did it to ensure SB doesn't have a good reason to come after him).

[mattarios2]

Wether you think it relates to mac/microsoft and other markets or not, a lot of people don't have any other option as many programs that are needed only run on pc or mac.

I think comparing shisha tobacco to the world of electronics/OS is silly.

Starbuzz can bite me, I would never EVER buy their crap.

[romzz]

[quote name='mattarios2' timestamp='1342130532' post='551572']
Starbuzz can bite me, I would never EVER buy their crap.
[/quote]

A few years ago I thought their stuff was great, but as I've learned about more brands and tried different things they started falling down my list. It was to the point where I would only buy Starbuzz because I like Pirate's Cave, but now I just have no interest. I guess Tangiers'll do that to ya. And the whole perfume thing, I can't seem to get over that.

[mavsfan31]

[quote name='mushrat' timestamp='1342122159' post='551555']so wait, is it the taste or the cost that makes people dislike it around here? Or the shady business practices?[/quote]

All of the above.

[shalowlow]

[quote name='mattarios2' timestamp='1342130532' post='551572']
Wether you think it relates to mac/microsoft and other markets or not, a lot of people don't have any other option as many programs that are needed only run on pc or mac.

I think comparing shisha tobacco to the world of electronics/OS is silly.

Starbuzz can bite me, I would never EVER buy their crap.
[/quote]

Read this. It will help you understand what the issues are and will help you add to the conversation in an intelligent way.

[url="http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-patent-deals-are-business-as-usual-for-a-bully"]http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-patent-deals-are-business-as-usual-for-a-bully[/url]

[DrSmokes]

I haven't bought them because of the outrageous price when I can get better tobacco for cheaper. Now that I know about their shady business practices, I likely won't buy any more from them...tho I do want to try one more flavor by them...but for now I'm happy with smoking Tangiers and Nakhla. Edited July 13, 2012 by DrSmokes

[gramps]

Agree. Nakhla and Tangiers for me too, though mostly Nakhla.

[mattarios2]

[quote name='shalowlow' timestamp='1342136726' post='551589']
[quote name='mattarios2' timestamp='1342130532' post='551572']
Wether you think it relates to mac/microsoft and other markets or not, a lot of people don't have any other option as many programs that are needed only run on pc or mac.

I think comparing shisha tobacco to the world of electronics/OS is silly.

Starbuzz can bite me, I would never EVER buy their crap.
[/quote]

Read this. It will help you understand what the issues are and will help you add to the conversation in an intelligent way.

[url="http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-patent-deals-are-business-as-usual-for-a-bully"]http://www.neowin.ne...ual-for-a-bully[/url]
[/quote]

I already knew about that.

In an intelligent way? heh ...

[mattarios2]

(Can't edit above post)

We are talking about a tobacco company trying to sue for generic names like guava, and double apple. In a market that has many other options there is the ability to pass on Starbuzz and go with something else. As I have already stated, many people don't have much of a choice other than Windows. I run an online website and do all online work for a living, many of the programs I use ONLY run on windows. Emulators and all that junk only work so long before they start throwing you errors.

So the point is many can easily avoid Starbuzz, many can't easily avoid Windows/Microsoft.

Whether they both are similar ethically or not, doesn't make it okay to support Starbuzz. So showing Microsoft articles and telling me to be more intelligent in this thread is doing what exactly?