efid6 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I'm a newbie to Tangiers. I got the first batch last week and have been smoking every day to try and get it right. I'm smoking out of a KM trimetal with a Tangiers Pico bowl and using coco nara coals. Even the first time I smoked I got great clouds the whole session but the flavor died out on me in about 20 minutes it seemed like. All of the three flavors I have I have had this problem (ILTOBC lucid, Peach Iced Tea lucid, and Welsh Cream noir). The tobacco is acclimated well, smells great. I pack the tobacco densely up to the spire and had been using a pushpin to make quite a few rings of holes and some in the middle. Then, I tried using a toothpick after reading that the holes need to be bigger for Tangiers. Both hole types produced the same result. For heat, I use two coco naras, I think putting them stone henged has given better results and I try to rotate them often. What could I be doing wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Might be burning it? If it starts out with good flavor, then drops off, then you're probably applying too much heat early on. Try starting out with less coal and see what happens. This would explain why you're getting better results when you stonehenge your coals. I've found that they actually don't need to be rotated as often as you'd think, stonehenged or not. Coals last longer the less you mess with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joytron Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Two full coals on the pico is a lot of heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='joytron' timestamp='1343873398' post='553113'] Two full coals on the pico is a lot of heat. [/quote] This is what I thought as well, hence why I think she might be burning it. I have no experience with the Pico, but I'm to understand it can be quite finicky with the heat management. Don't you have a Pico? If so, what are your heat management recommendations for it? I plan on getting one eventually, so you'll not only be helping out the OP, but me as well. I've heard of people using cocos cut into halves, but I've also heard of people stonehenging full cocos, so not too sure. I would think if you stonehenge, it'd be best to have them on the edge quite a bit to prevent burning. Is that a correct assessment, you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joytron Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Yeah I have a really tiny pico and two coals seems a bit excessive. The issue I had is that the bowl takes longer to heat up. For lucid/noir I think two halves is Perfect and with burqiq I usually just use small or mini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='joytron' timestamp='1343876555' post='553119'] Yeah I have a really tiny pico and two coals seems a bit excessive. The issue I had is that the bowl takes longer to heat up. For lucid/noir I think two halves is Perfect and with burqiq I usually just use small or mini. [/quote] Okay, cool, thanks. Not to get too off topic here, but wasn't the Pico designed to be used especially with Birquq? Not saying you can't or shouldn't use it with Lucid or Noir, just that I think I remember Eric saying something along the lines that since Birquq requires less heat than Noir or Lucid, using it in the Pico works well since you're pretty much forced to use less coal. IMO, it seems like it's the other way around- using a bigger bowl seems to make more sense for Birquq, since it's finicky with heat, and the smaller the bowl the harder the heat management is. People always want to use too much coal... I myself have always preferred Noir out of my Small over my Minis, because I find heat management to be easier (I do two coals on both the Mini and Small, so obviously it's less heat if you use Noir in a Small). I hope this paragraph makes sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavsfan31 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1343877374' post='553121'][quote name='joytron' timestamp='1343876555' post='553119'] Yeah I have a really tiny pico and two coals seems a bit excessive. The issue I had is that the bowl takes longer to heat up. For lucid/noir I think two halves is Perfect and with burqiq I usually just use small or mini. [/quote] Okay, cool, thanks. Not to get too off topic here, but wasn't the Pico designed to be used especially with Birquq? Not saying you can't or shouldn't use it with Lucid or Noir, just that I think I remember Eric saying something along the lines that since Birquq requires less heat than Noir or Lucid, using it in the Pico works well since you're pretty much forced to use less coal. IMO, it seems like it's the other way around- using a bigger bowl seems to make more sense for Birquq, since it's finicky with heat, and the smaller the bowl the harder the heat management is. People always want to use too much coal... I myself have always preferred Noir out of my Small over my Minis, because I find heat management to be easier (I do two coals on both the Mini and Small, so obviously it's less heat if you use Noir in a Small). I hope this paragraph makes sense...[/quote] Don't think so. I asked Eric a while back if there was a reason that both the pico and birquq line were released at the same time and he said that there was no coincidence. I took that to mean that they weren't designed specifically for each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='mavsfan31' timestamp='1343918163' post='553144'] [quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1343877374' post='553121'][quote name='joytron' timestamp='1343876555' post='553119'] Yeah I have a really tiny pico and two coals seems a bit excessive. The issue I had is that the bowl takes longer to heat up. For lucid/noir I think two halves is Perfect and with burqiq I usually just use small or mini. [/quote] Okay, cool, thanks. Not to get too off topic here, but wasn't the Pico designed to be used especially with Birquq? Not saying you can't or shouldn't use it with Lucid or Noir, just that I think I remember Eric saying something along the lines that since Birquq requires less heat than Noir or Lucid, using it in the Pico works well since you're pretty much forced to use less coal. IMO, it seems like it's the other way around- using a bigger bowl seems to make more sense for Birquq, since it's finicky with heat, and the smaller the bowl the harder the heat management is. People always want to use too much coal... I myself have always preferred Noir out of my Small over my Minis, because I find heat management to be easier (I do two coals on both the Mini and Small, so obviously it's less heat if you use Noir in a Small). I hope this paragraph makes sense...[/quote] Don't think so. I asked Eric a while back if there was a reason that both the pico and birquq line were released at the same time and he said that there was no coincidence. I took that to mean that they weren't designed specifically for each other. [/quote] Ahh, okay. Do you prefer using a bigger bowl for Birquq? What do you use with your Pico primarily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoozle Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I have been smoking birquq out of my mini. I used the Pico once and it was annoying to pack because it was so small. Also, heat was a little tricky even wth GCs. Also, I was less than impressed with the smoke. I decided that for review purposes, I should use a Mini or larger bowl to give Birquq the best chances of getting a good review. I wouldn't want to give the tobacco a poor review because of the bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavsfan31 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1343919505' post='553146'][quote name='mavsfan31' timestamp='1343918163' post='553144'] [quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1343877374' post='553121'][quote name='joytron' timestamp='1343876555' post='553119'] Yeah I have a really tiny pico and two coals seems a bit excessive. The issue I had is that the bowl takes longer to heat up. For lucid/noir I think two halves is Perfect and with burqiq I usually just use small or mini. [/quote] Okay, cool, thanks. Not to get too off topic here, but wasn't the Pico designed to be used especially with Birquq? Not saying you can't or shouldn't use it with Lucid or Noir, just that I think I remember Eric saying something along the lines that since Birquq requires less heat than Noir or Lucid, using it in the Pico works well since you're pretty much forced to use less coal. IMO, it seems like it's the other way around- using a bigger bowl seems to make more sense for Birquq, since it's finicky with heat, and the smaller the bowl the harder the heat management is. People always want to use too much coal... I myself have always preferred Noir out of my Small over my Minis, because I find heat management to be easier (I do two coals on both the Mini and Small, so obviously it's less heat if you use Noir in a Small). I hope this paragraph makes sense...[/quote] Don't think so. I asked Eric a while back if there was a reason that both the pico and birquq line were released at the same time and he said that there was no coincidence. I took that to mean that they weren't designed specifically for each other. [/quote] Ahh, okay. Do you prefer using a bigger bowl for Birquq? What do you use with your Pico primarily?[/quote] Yes, definitely. Heat management kin of sucks with my smaller bowls and birquq. I mainly smoke noir in it. I use my pico when I don't have much left of a flavor, or want to smoke for under two hours. Otherwise, I stick to my minis and small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 The Pico is becoming less appealing to me now, haha. As you guys know, I use my Minis 95% of the time. I feel it works great for Noir, Lucid, and Birquq (Now With Melon anyways, the only Birquq flavor I've tried). Ashley, Jess, and Mavs- Do you think it would be worth me still picking one up? I know you guys were given yours in the samples, so I guess what I'm asking is would you have bought one still, based off of your current experience with it, or do you think it's best to stick to Minis/Smalls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSmokes Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 It sounds like I'm the only one that uses 2 whole coco flats (razan's) for my pico, non-Stonehenge but hanging off the edge, leaving it for about 10-15 minutes without wind cover before taking a pull. By putting them stonehenge style just never produced much heat even after 20-30 min (really flimsy smoke). I tried 3 halves and it worked similar to that of the way I mentioned first but the coals don't last as long and it's more of a hassle to break them. I've been rather happy with my pico...flavor and clouds last for about 2 hours with it, maybe a little less than 2 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavo21 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 and this is the reason i use jap coals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavsfan31 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='DrSmokes' timestamp='1343932612' post='553175']It sounds like I'm the only one that uses 2 whole coco flats (razan's) for my pico, non-Stonehenge but hanging off the edge, leaving it for about 10-15 minutes without wind cover before taking a pull. By putting them stonehenge style just never produced much heat even after 20-30 min (really flimsy smoke). I tried 3 halves and it worked similar to that of the way I mentioned first but the coals don't last as long and it's more of a hassle to break them. I've been rather happy with my pico...flavor and clouds last for about 2 hours with it, maybe a little less than 2 hours.[/quote] I can do that with noir, but they really have to be hanging off. I use CH coals which are similar to the heat output of Razans in my opinion. I would still pick up a pico. I haven't broken a bowl before and I don't intend in doing that any time soon, but I'm probably going to purchase another once they become available (I'll probably pick up another small as well.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joytron Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1343921693' post='553156'] The Pico is becoming less appealing to me now, haha. As you guys know, I use my Minis 95% of the time. I feel it works great for Noir, Lucid, and Birquq (Now With Melon anyways, the only Birquq flavor I've tried). Ashley, Jess, and Mavs- Do you think it would be worth me still picking one up? I know you guys were given yours in the samples, so I guess what I'm asking is would you have bought one still, based off of your current experience with it, or do you think it's best to stick to Minis/Smalls? [/quote] Firstly, I would get one solely because they are cool to have in the collection. I think they are great bowls but disagree with Eric as them being replacement for the mini. If I could only choose one bowl it would be a mini, two bowls it would be a small and mini. But keep in mind they (at least the one I have) is really really small and will make your mini look like a standard small. They are great shisha savers and the new design makes them fit on two pipes so well. I have one pico and plan on getting another to keep at my ladies house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Thanks doods. Sounds like I'll pick one up eventually but not go out of my way to or anything. Sorry to the OP for jacking the thread... Where is she, btw? Hopefully you guys helped solve her problem as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang67n Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 [quote name='mavsfan31' timestamp='1343918163' post='553144'] [quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1343877374' post='553121'][quote name='joytron' timestamp='1343876555' post='553119'] Yeah I have a really tiny pico and two coals seems a bit excessive. The issue I had is that the bowl takes longer to heat up. For lucid/noir I think two halves is Perfect and with burqiq I usually just use small or mini. [/quote] Okay, cool, thanks. Not to get too off topic here, but wasn't the Pico designed to be used especially with Birquq? Not saying you can't or shouldn't use it with Lucid or Noir, just that I think I remember Eric saying something along the lines that since Birquq requires less heat than Noir or Lucid, using it in the Pico works well since you're pretty much forced to use less coal. IMO, it seems like it's the other way around- using a bigger bowl seems to make more sense for Birquq, since it's finicky with heat, and the smaller the bowl the harder the heat management is. People always want to use too much coal... I myself have always preferred Noir out of my Small over my Minis, because I find heat management to be easier (I do two coals on both the Mini and Small, so obviously it's less heat if you use Noir in a Small). I hope this paragraph makes sense...[/quote] Don't think so. I asked Eric a while back if there was a reason that both the pico and birquq line were released at the same time and he said that there was no coincidence. I took that to mean that they weren't designed specifically for each other. [/quote] unless he meant "there is no coincidence" meaning that it was planned.. rather than being merely a coincidence.. so it WAS perhaps meant for it? damn Eric and his cryptic wordings! and to the OP.. Try using less heat. I use 2 coals on a small, so 2 on a pico is probably overkill! hope you get it sorted out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1v3th3ad Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 With my Pico I pack it medium, as in not pressing it down tight but not loose. I fill it to the brim. not just spire. I use a safety pin for all bowls(have one attached to my fonts) and I either poke three wide apart rings with one hole over center spire or four close together rings with one hole over center spite. I use two taxable coconut coals hanging half on the bowl on opposite sides from each other. Second round I put them directly on...works for every line for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoozle Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 [quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1343921693' post='553156'] The Pico is becoming less appealing to me now, haha. As you guys know, I use my Minis 95% of the time. I feel it works great for Noir, Lucid, and Birquq (Now With Melon anyways, the only Birquq flavor I've tried). Ashley, Jess, and Mavs- Do you think it would be worth me still picking one up? I know you guys were given yours in the samples, so I guess what I'm asking is would you have bought one still, based off of your current experience with it, or do you think it's best to stick to Minis/Smalls? [/quote] Pick one up as a collectors item when you get around to it, don't go out of your way. Maybe some time in the future when I am smoking every day and I can really dial in the Pico, I will use it but for now, it's pretty quick and worry free to pack a Mini or a small and just enjoy the smoke. With the Pico, I feel like I am constantly adjusting coal for heat management. With the Mini or small, I just mess with them when I am adding more coal. I smoke when I work at home so I don't want to spend most of my time managing coal, I want to get some work done. But keep in mind that you want to have one in your collection as part of your retirement plan. These things are going to be priceless when the cost of tobacco skyrockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 [quote name='efid6' timestamp='1343870615' post='553108'] I'm a newbie to Tangiers. I got the first batch last week and have been smoking every day to try and get it right. I'm smoking out of a KM trimetal with a Tangiers Pico bowl and using coco nara coals. Even the first time I smoked I got great clouds the whole session but the flavor died out on me in about 20 minutes it seemed like. All of the three flavors I have I have had this problem (ILTOBC lucid, Peach Iced Tea lucid, and Welsh Cream noir). The tobacco is acclimated well, smells great. I pack the tobacco densely up to the spire and had been using a pushpin to make quite a few rings of holes and some in the middle. Then, I tried using a toothpick after reading that the holes need to be bigger for Tangiers. Both hole types produced the same result. For heat, I use two coco naras, I think putting them stone henged has given better results and I try to rotate them often. What could I be doing wrong? [/quote] Is this considered cross posting? or... like... wait... can I just copy and paste my original response? probably not... Make sure your tobacco is properly acclimated. Even if it smells find it might help to stir, let sit for 10-20minutes, stir, smell, pack (or continue acclimation if it doesn't smell right) Poke as many big holes (twice as big as a toothpick) as you can fit on the HD foil all the way down. Split your CH coals and put them on either side of the bowl. Do not let them cover the spire. You shouldn't have to move your coals much Also, The Pico bowl was not meant to be used only with Birquq. Pico is a small phunnel and will work well with all the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Maybe she was just trying to get as much feedback as possible by posting on multiple forums? I'm guessing you just copied and pasted that response? Because she's using Coconaras, not CHs. And I never suggested the Pico was meant to be used only with Birquq. Reread the posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1v3th3ad Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 From what I understand its not meant for coconut coals at all because they use too much heat...japs throw the perfect heat doesn't stop me from using my razans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 [quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1344009318' post='553252']Maybe she was just trying to get as much feedback as possible by posting on multiple forums? I'm guessing you just copied and pasted that response? Because she's using Coconaras, not CHs. And I never suggested the Pico was meant to be used only with Birquq. Reread the posts.[/quote] Haha no. I didnt end up copying abd pasting Just habit I guess. Anyway, CCN burn hotter than CH so i prefer CH. actually I prefer fumari but they are a mess... Though I think Im switching back to them. *Comments in this post do not necessarily reflect those of Tangiers Tobacco* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insidius Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Ok, so I have to ask (hopefully this thread isn't deemed 'too old' and I get into trouble!): What are CH coals? What 'mini' bowl are you guys talking about, specifically? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 chronic hookah natural coconut coals from hookahjohn.com Tangiers mini phunnel bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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