Chick-Fil-A Shitstorm...

[Stuie]

Not to be a dick also Coleman, don't assume that is the only thing I do to help out those in my community,

A large group of us spent the last 8 months, building, and setting up a Woman's Shelter that is under the same umbrella organization that runs the homeless shelter. A group from us spend an entire Saturday every month doing whatever is needed to the Elderly and Single Mother's of our church from pulling weeds, buying groceries, painting houses whatever their needs be. I am a Mentor to a low income elementary school, I go have lunch with Derrick every Thursday during the school year and I purchase most of his school supplies for the school year for the past 2 years.

[Coleman]

[quote name='Stuie' timestamp='1343968934' post='553225']Not to be a dick also Coleman, don't assume that is the only thing I do to help out those in my community,

A large group of us spent the last 8 months, building, and setting up a Woman's Shelter that is under the same umbrella organization that runs the homeless shelter. A group from us spend an entire Saturday every month doing whatever is needed to the Elderly and Single Mother's of our church from pulling weeds, buying groceries, painting houses whatever their needs be. I am a Mentor to a low income elementary school, I go have lunch with Derrick every Thursday during the school year and I purchase most of his school supplies for the school year for the past 2 years.[/quote]
I applaud you for your giving back sir that is great of you to do. Makes you happy to see the hope and joy you bring to these people doesn't it?

[Stuie]

It does. Especially Derrick.

[Rani]

Okay, wading in......

1) No bible quotes as a reason for discrimination, puh-leze..... The bible has been changed so many bloody times by the church-government through the ages that we have no way of knowing if it even remotely resembles it's original writ. Start with the Council of Trent and work either backwards or forwards. They documented the fact that they changed it, in fact they were proud of it! Where do you think the whole Apocrypha thing came from? Interestingly enough, supposedly handwritten copies of the original scripture were placed in the Library of Alexandria. Pharonic Egypt had a standing deal: Any author and/or artist of any work, would be provided room, board, and stipend to create their works under the condition that exact copies be left in the library. The library was conveniently burned. By Christians. Which kind of makes you wonder what was in the original scriptures they didn't want us to see, now don't it?

2) The subject of "separation of church and state" has actually gone before the Supreme Court on more than one occasion. Each time the Court has come down on the side of religion NOT having a voice in determining government actions. Period. So we can debate where the idea came from all we like, the ruling body of our Constitutional interpretation says no. End of story unless we change the Constitution.

3) Because we're talking separation of church and state, or "law", and confirmed by the Supreme Court, I'm sorry, but religious organizations do NOT get to determine civil rights. Since gay couple are denied equal protections under the law, then I would say, yes, their civil rights are being abridged. On the subject of marriage, calling a same gender pairing Civil Unions would be just fine[i] [u]if civil unions were equal in all respects to marriage in rights and responsibilities[/u][/i]. But under current law they are not! In California, there are twelve legal difference between Civil Union and marriage. If you don't want gay couples to use the word marriage, then pass laws requiring Civil Unions to be exactly equal to marriage to rights and responsibilities and privileges. Problem solved.

On a side note, I happen think polygamy should also be legal, because I don't believe the government should have any control whatsoever over personal lifestyle and relationship choices. I think the government should not have any say-so about anything at all two or more consenting adults choose to do with their personal and private lives.

4) Legality and morality are two totally different concepts. When gay marriage is the law of the land, as I have no doubt it eventually will, no church whatsoever would be forced to perform the marriage of any gay couple. They still have absolute freedom of choice to not acknowledge personal behavior they do not believe is correct. [u][i]Ensuring gay couples equal rights does not deprive you of your right to refuse to accept them.[/i][/u] This is a legal issue, not a spiritual one. If a minister and his/her congregation do not approve of same gender marriage, [u][i]don't perform the ceremony![/i][/u] Remember that clerk who refused to issue a marriage license to the interracial couple? She was fired, but she wasn't criminally prosecuted. Because she was still within her rights to stand by her beliefs. Morally she may have failed according to most of us these days, but legally she was within her rights.

5) If you don't like public displays of affection between same gender couples, then ask the management to ban all PDA's from everyone including horny teenagers from the premises. Public behavior should always be the issue, not who's doing it. Who's doing it leaves the door open for selection and discrimination when it's okay for heterosexual couples but not gay couples.

6) On the subject of Christians being under attack.......... Guess what? Historically, when it comes to intolerance and prejudice and persecution, Christianity absolutely leads the pack with the worst record. Every single time in history Christianity has been in charge, people have died by the millions. The Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, witch trials, and so on and so on and so on. Hell, even Hitler claimed to be Christian and used the excuse that Jews should be killed as they killed Christ! There has [u][i]historically[/i][/u] been no worse people to have in charge of your government or your lives. So if people are wary, or untrusting, or unwilling to go along with Christian insistence on conforming to their morality, there is justification for their lack of faith. Because fundamental Christians, just like Shiite Muslims, generally DO seem to believe government should be under their control and direction. So pardon the rest of us who think otherwise.

'Rani

[packersfan23]

I don't eat there because I'm allergic to it (they use MSG in damn near everything), so my boycott of them is about their ingredients, not their politics. Dan Cathy has a right to speak his mind, and people have a right to choose where they want to eat. Although I don't agree with Cathy and think he's a little dumb, I support his constitutional right to free speech. For the record, I am a Christian who has no problem with gay marriage. The Bible spends so little time talking about that subject but spends a few hundred pages talking about loving thy neighbor, treating people the way you want to be treated, and showing grace and mercy to others because we were first shown grace and mercy by God. The vocal portion of the Christian faith that is so vehemently against gay marriage is missing the point, in my opinion. Gay marriage is no more a slight against the sanctity of marriage than the straight conservative politician who has been married multiple times.

[packersfan23]

And as an addendum, I really don't think the sanctity of marriage is a big deal. We as a nation have much bigger problems to deal with than how many people one has been married to. It's really pathetic that this anthill turned into Kilimanjaro.

[kajon]

We have come to a point where everyone's opinions are wrong. Who is to say that my "right wing biggot" view of gay marriage is wrong? Do I agree with gay marriage? No, but is gay marriage wrong? Who are we to say what is "right" or "wrong". We all have different views and we should not get slammed every time we express ourselves.

[bradleyclark86]

[quote name='packersfan23' timestamp='1344011417' post='553255']
I don't eat there because I'm allergic to it (they use MSG in damn near everything), so my boycott of them is about their ingredients, not their politics. Dan Cathy has a right to speak his mind, and people have a right to choose where they want to eat. Although I don't agree with Cathy and think he's a little dumb, I support his constitutional right to free speech. For the record, I am a Christian who has no problem with gay marriage. The Bible spends so little time talking about that subject but spends a few hundred pages talking about loving thy neighbor, treating people the way you want to be treated, and showing grace and mercy to others because we were first shown grace and mercy by God. The vocal portion of the Christian faith that is so vehemently against gay marriage is missing the point, in my opinion. Gay marriage is no more a slight against the sanctity of marriage than the straight conservative politician who has been married multiple times.
[/quote]

[quote name='packersfan23' timestamp='1344011676' post='553256']
And as an addendum, I really don't think the sanctity of marriage is a big deal. We as a nation have much bigger problems to deal with than how many people one has been married to. It's really pathetic that this anthill turned into Kilimanjaro.
[/quote]

Favre, I love you, man. And this is why you're my little bro.

For me, my politics account for less than 0.00001% of the world's population... Chic-fil-a can lobby all day long against gay marraige. The groups they donate to can lobby all day long. But ultimately, it comes down to the senators and representatives that vote on it. Which, is sad to me, cause I'd rather see the government removed from the private institution.

Also, on my to-do list:

A picture of me with a meal consisting of Chic-fil-a and Oreo pride cookies, with a caption along the lines of "I have a non-partisan stomach"

[Rani]

Here's why I think it's a big deal and we shouldn't be "whatever" about it......

Lately I've expanded my reading list. I've been reading the works of and about Lucy Parsons. For those of you who don't know who she was, she was an anarchist and pro-labor reformer before 1900. I don't agree with everything she says, but if you read her writings though, a very interesting observation emerges: [u] S[i]he could have been writing yesterday about what we're currently facing![/i][/u] When you look at what people had to fight for, it's no different than it is now. There was a time when we seemed to be making progress, where a middle class was actually rising with opportunity and equality had a chance. Now if you read her and others writings of the times, you'll see the very same problems have come around again, almost as though they couldn't beat us down head on, so they resorted to sneaking around us sideways and taking away freedom and equality by tiny inches. It's frightening how we're being controlled and depressed and forced into some kind of cookie-cutter version of morality and life and because none of us really, REALLY look back at history, we keep going along with it. We buy into it being in our best interest to look alike, talk alike, worship alike, vote alike.... Anything but be creative or different or outside what's "acceptable" to the majority. Because apparently we have to be sheep so we're quiet and don't rock the boat. Because rocking the boat leads to things like freedom and equality and people actually having a chance to better themselves and rise above their current station in life. So thinking it's a mountain when it shouldn't be that big a deal? I don't agree.

'Rani

[kbat89]

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