Paul Ryan...

[Chreees]

What a joke this guy is... My favorite article I've read about him thus far:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/tom-morello-paul-ryan-is-the-embodiment-of-the-machine-our-music-rages-against-20120816

[gramps]

And I've never seen an article so wrong.

[Chreees]

[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1345293793' post='554395']And I've never seen an article so wrong.[/quote]

Um, what do you mean?


Tapatalk'd via iPhone

[Venger]

what did Rage against the machine and its members pay in taxes last year. According to the Obama commercial Mitt Romney made $20 million and ONLY paid 14%. Do you know how much money that is? $2,800,000.00 How many zeros were on the check any of us wrote. I am tired of people blaming the "super rich" for Americas money problems. It has been proven that even if you took every dollar that was made last year from every person it still wouldn't cover what we owe or what we are spending. Taking money from successful people is not going to fix what's broken. We need to spend less and stop taking care of able bodied people who are just too lazy to work. I am currently unemployed and thank God for UE insurance but its help not a life style. I am looking for a job and want one.If everyone that could work did we would all be better off and Washington could stop spending money like a drunken sailor on shore leave....end rant.

[gramps]

[quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1345303552' post='554397']
[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1345293793' post='554395']And I've never seen an article so wrong.[/quote]

Um, what do you mean?


Tapatalk'd via iPhone
[/quote]
Paul Ryan has no rage against women, immigrants, workers, gays, the poor, or the environment. Where's the evidence for it? Just because he doesn't see things the same way Tom does? That's the way a child reacts. In fact, the whole article sounded like it was written by a spoiled child. The whole "you disagree with me so you're evil" attitude in this country has to stop.

Ryan [u][i]does[/i][/u] have a rage against wasteful spending, high taxes and a central government that has grown out of control.

Leonard Peltier IS guilty. He should NEVER be pardoned. Where does all this shit come from? Tom Morello should just grow up and live in the real world.

At least Ryan likes Rage's sound. I wouldn't even give them that compliment. The music sucks as much as the lyrics.

[joytron]

[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1345320101' post='554409']
[quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1345303552' post='554397']
[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1345293793' post='554395']And I've never seen an article so wrong.[/quote]

Um, what do you mean?


Tapatalk'd via iPhone
[/quote]
Paul Ryan has no rage against women, immigrants, workers, gays, the poor, or the environment. Where's the evidence for it? Just because he doesn't see things the same way Tom does? [b]That's the way a child reacts.[/b] In fact, the whole article sounded like it was written by a spoiled child. The whole "you disagree with me so you're evil" attitude in this country has to stop.

Ryan [u][i]does[/i][/u] have a rage against wasteful spending, high taxes and a central government that has grown out of control.

Leonard Peltier IS guilty. He should NEVER be pardoned. Where does all this shit come from? Tom Morello should just grow up and live in the real world.

At least Ryan likes Rage's sound. I wouldn't even give them that compliment. [b]The music sucks as much as the lyrics.[/b]
[/quote]

[KasbahBazaar]

[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1345306056' post='554399']
what did Rage against the machine and its members pay in taxes last year. According to the Obama commercial Mitt Romney made $20 million and ONLY paid 14%.
[/quote]

Ok... and Obama paid 21% last year on a significantly smaller amount.

[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1345306056' post='554399'][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]How many zeros were on the check any of us wrote.[/font][/color][/quote]

You seem to be comfortable saying that those who make less should pay a significantly higher chunk of their salary than those who are blessed to be in a flourishing financial position. Because someone worked hard they should no longer contribute to their country in the same way as their fellow citizens? I'm sorry but that's utterly illogical.

[Hassouni]

[quote name='KasbahBazaar' timestamp='1345326634' post='554415']
[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1345306056' post='554399']
what did Rage against the machine and its members pay in taxes last year. According to the Obama commercial Mitt Romney made $20 million and ONLY paid 14%.
[/quote]

Ok... and Obama paid 21% last year on a significantly smaller amount.

[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1345306056' post='554399'][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]How many zeros were on the check any of us wrote.[/font][/color][/quote]

You seem to be comfortable saying that those who make less should pay a significantly higher chunk of their salary than those who are blessed to be in a flourishing financial position. Because someone worked hard they should no longer contribute to their country in the same way as their fellow citizens? I'm sorry but that's utterly illogical.
[/quote]

Furthermore, it's the principle of the matter, not whether it would magically make fix everything.

[Venger]

[quote name='KasbahBazaar' timestamp='1345326634' post='554415']
[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1345306056' post='554399']
what did Rage against the machine and its members pay in taxes last year. According to the Obama commercial Mitt Romney made $20 million and ONLY paid 14%.
[/quote]

Ok... and Obama paid 21% last year on a significantly smaller amount.

[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1345306056' post='554399'][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]How many zeros were on the check any of us wrote.[/font][/color][/quote]

You seem to be comfortable saying that those who make less should pay a significantly higher chunk of their salary than those who are blessed to be in a flourishing financial position. Because someone worked hard they should no longer contribute to their country in the same way as their fellow citizens? I'm sorry but that's utterly illogical.
[/quote]
No, what I am comfortable saying is why is it based on a scaled percentage. At one time in our history the people who had the highest income paid 70-90 % in taxes. so if you made 1,000,000.00 you only got to keep 100k of that. So lets say the percentage for say 100k was 30% you would keep 70k. at that rate why would I even try to make a million dollars working hard when I will only get 30k more than a guy who made 100k. It is not my job to support people who should be supporting themselves.
and as far as your statement goes how is paying $2,800,000.00 not contributing to his country.

[KasbahBazaar]

[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1345306056' post='554399']
I am currently unemployed and thank God for UE insurance
[/quote]

[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1345330059' post='554422']
It is not my job to support people who should be supporting themselves.
[/quote]

[img]http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/38e/ec0/942/resized/tommy-lee-wtf-meme-generator-are-you-puttin-me-on-00e184.jpg?1328904687.jpg[/img]

Before you say anything, yes, I believe you are actually trying to find a job but do you think you're some special case who is the only person deserving of assistance who is actually looking for a job? I'm sure you would not be happy if someone came up to you and told you "It is not my job to support you".


[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1345330059' post='554422']
and as far as your statement goes how is paying $2,800,000.00 not contributing to his country.
[/quote]

Because people who achieve these low tax percentages pay lawyers copious amounts of money to exploit loopholes and avoid paying their just due to society like everyone else. If you still don't get the point I'm trying to make, $2k to someone who makes $20k a year is devastating in a way that $10mil wouldn't even be to Mitt. That will probably buy him another ballet dancing horse.

Most importantly, like Hassaan said, it's the principle of the matter.

[joytron]

[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1345330059' post='554422']
[quote name='KasbahBazaar' timestamp='1345326634' post='554415']
[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1345306056' post='554399']
what did Rage against the machine and its members pay in taxes last year. According to the Obama commercial Mitt Romney made $20 million and ONLY paid 14%.
[/quote]

Ok... and Obama paid 21% last year on a significantly smaller amount.

[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1345306056' post='554399'][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]How many zeros were on the check any of us wrote.[/font][/color][/quote]

You seem to be comfortable saying that those who make less should pay a significantly higher chunk of their salary than those who are blessed to be in a flourishing financial position. Because someone worked hard they should no longer contribute to their country in the same way as their fellow citizens? I'm sorry but that's utterly illogical.
[/quote]
No, what I am comfortable saying is why is it based on a scaled percentage. At one time in our history the people who had the highest income paid 70-90 % in taxes. so if you made 1,000,000.00 you only got to keep 100k of that. So lets say the percentage for say 100k was 30% you would keep 70k. at that rate why would I even try to make a million dollars working hard when I will only get 30k more than a guy who made 100k. It is not my job to support people who should be supporting themselves.
and as far as your statement goes how is paying $2,800,000.00 not contributing to his country.
[/quote]

I dont think you understand how tax brackets work.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_bracket"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_bracket[/url]

[Chreees]

I listen to and love Rage's message(s). Their lyrics are the total opposite of what Ryan stands for. Therefore, I believe Morello is correct with his article. It's a simple matter of logical reasoning, really. What facts stand that make Morello's article wrong?

As for taxes, everyone should pay the same percentage. You make more money? Ohhhh okay, then you get special treatment. I respect individuals who are willing to pay their fair share, especially when they have more than enough money. This is one of the many reasons I have a great deal of respect for Obama (he WANTS to pay his fair share, and has released years of tax returns to show his honesty in the matter), and none for Romney (dude doesn't even want to share his tax returns, meaning he's got something to hide). Romney would have been a more electable candidate had he torn a page from his father's book...

[Rani]

Only someone who knows nothing about the history of corporations in this country really believes the wealthy should be getting some kind of break. People are very anti-union right now, but why do we have unions? Because people were literally dying by the hundreds in sweat shops on American soil to make Rockefellers. Or did you think they became wealthy beyond belief because they were kind? There is only so much wealth available. Sure it's a lot, but it's still a limited resource. Only so many televisions to be bought, vacations to be taken, etc. Even supply and demand has inherent limitations. So if I've cornered the market on a product, am producing it for pennies and selling it for thousands, still my profits are limited by however many buy my product. Do I want somebody else selling the same product? Do I want some former salesman I used to pay peanuts for, going into business for himself and becoming my competition? OF COURSE NOT!!!! This isn't "evil" but it is human nature. Predators aren't bad, or evil, or to be hated, but they ARE STILL PREDATORS! And if you ignore that fact, you're stupid. There's nothing wrong with swimming with sharks so long as you always remember they're sharks.

The wealthy have literally cornered the market on wealth, and the chances of someone not already wealthy by now getting there are very, VERY slim. Much slimmer than they should be considering how we always talk about opportunity in America and getting slimmer by the day. The only way is to regain your opportunity is to force a greater percentage of their wealth back into the economy and the only way to do that is through the tax structure which actually does trickle down into things like small business loans so you can build a business and compete to become wealthy yourself. Proof of this is the fact that the economy is actually at it's best throughout history, when taxes were the highest. More money flowed, and guess what? More millionaires were made! Your future wealth and the future wealth of your children depends on having access to greater opportunity and you don't have that when wealth is concentrated among a few who are determined to keep it for themselves and away from the rest of us.

Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney are not just wealthy in their own right. They are part and parcel of the wealth building and banking community. They have a single solid goal. To keep the status quo. As much wealth as possible in their pockets and as little of it as possible in ours. Can't pay your employees slave wages when they have opportunities to own and build their own businesses now can you? It has been brought up, something I'd forgotten, that a couple years ago, we had a tax amnesty. And that it's quite likely the reason Romney is stubbornly refusing to release more tax returns is that it would clearly show he took part in the amnesty program. It's a logical conclusion given the fact that even his father released 10 years of tax returns when he was running for president and yet the Romney's are digging in refusing. Plus, Paul Ryan has been caught in several outright lies. He came out of the gate campaigning on the fact that "Obama's" stimulus was worthless and bad for the economy and that he never took any of the money. Then letters he'd written surfaced not only showing him begging for the money for his district, but putting it into the same green corporations that he complains Obama supports. So, liar. Proven liar. And this is who the GOP wants to put in the White House? Romney, on the other hand, keeps saying he's going to repeal "Obamacare" his first hundred days in office. IT'S HIS FREAKIN' PROGRAM!!! He designed it for Massachusetts when he was governor! But it's "bad", it's "evil", it's going to cost money. Never mind that it actually LOWERS spending by $10 trillion dollars over the next ten years. Just forget that part, according to them. And the two of them want to privatize Social Security and Medicare. They want to put both in the hands of the bankers. The same bankers that completely wrecked not just the American but global economy. And they want to give these guys your Social Security and Medicare.

You know what, I would LOVE somebody who was less of an intellectual and more of a warrior in the White House. I would have loved Obama to have stood up and gone to war the first time that wimpy, do nothing Congress sandbagged him. He's ineffective, we all know that. He's a gentleman for the most part who doesn't seem to want to roll around in the mud with the rest of the pig politicians. Then you know what? He shouldn't have gone into politics. Because it has become one of the ugliest and dirtiest businesses in existence. But I will still take ineffective, I will still take a gentleman who won't get a hell of a lot done the next four years over somebody who actively wants to take all opportunity from the rest of us and keep it for themselves. So if you like Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney, go for it. Elect the worthless pieces of crap. But you lose all right to complain when you get what you paid for.

'Rani

[Stuie]

2 things.

1. It's not about taxes... it's the fact that the government spends too much DAMN MONEY and want's to take MORE FROM ALL OF US!!!!!!

2. Isn't it about time we all stopped voting for Democrats and Republicans?

[Rani]

[quote name='Stuie' timestamp='1345489398' post='554567']
2 things.

1. It's not about taxes... it's the fact that the government spends too much DAMN MONEY and want's to take MORE FROM ALL OF US!!!!!!

[b]2. Isn't it about time we all stopped voting for Democrats and Republicans?[/b]
[/quote]

I have said this until I'm blue in the face. If we really, REALLY want to see change, we'd all immediately drop our current registration and register 3rd party Any 3rd party. Green, Peace and Freedom, Libertarian, etc. With two parties, they have a constant finger pointing contest. "It's THEIR fault!" If people start leaving the big two in droves, believe me they WILL take notice.

'Rani

[Chreees]

I agree, the two-party system is ultimately what is killing our country. But we'll never get away from it, unless we have some sort of revolution. Which we'll never have, because there's too much money in the two-party system currently.

Here's another bit I found of Ryan's lies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_CYS35IHeE&feature=youtu.be

[Hassouni]

I'm an independent, but I basically never see independent candidates. That being said I'm also quite the lefty.

[DrSmokes]

Most of America that talks down on the 14% Romney made is just mad or stupid. 2 words, Capital Gains. Anyone can get those "tax benefits"; you don't need a rich lawyer to even know about it...heck just a CPA coming straight out of college knows about it. People don't understand high risk investments. High risk leads to high gain if done properly...and also major losses if not done properly. People need to stop talking and start working harder IMHO.

You guys think that there are no jobs out there, but there are. Maybe not your dream job but hard work in whatever you get into usually leads to climbing the ladders fast (I've seen it first hand). I've been in the HR department and trying to hire people while I worked for a small business while I was in school. These people were coming in just to get to the interview process and then bail out so they can show the judge that they are trying to get a job. Granted, it isn't everyone, but businesses should be able to flag these people so they lose the benefits that those of us WHO ARE WORKING are paying for.

And until we cut our spending DRASTICALLY, we are going to continue to go into debt. We can take all the money everyone makes in a year, retroactively tax various corporations, and double dip some of these rich people and still barely get through 1 year of what we are spending. Then we have nothing for the next year. If you haven't seen it yet, this was a great video that I thought I would be extremely bored through but it kept my interest and time flew:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jboTeS9Okak[/media] Edited August 20, 2012 by DrSmokes

[Rani]

People need to work more Dr. Smokes???? Are you freakin' kidding? Americans ALREADY work nearly twice a many hours as every other industrialized nation with fewer benefits! And you want them to suck it up and work more? We have zero federal standards for vacation and sick leave compared to an average of 21 days per year in every other 1st world country. Our greed has driven us into work 60 and 70 hours a week while our children are raised by video games and reality shows. And what's the result? Obesity as we're forced to hit fast food joints because we're not getting home until after 9:00 at night and have no tine to cook, an increase in drug abuse as we go from sleep aids to uppers and five (or six) shots of caffeine just to get to the office, children becoming more and more out of control and lacking in self-esteem because we're not freakin' there to guide them, and a wealthy (business-owner) class that ships jobs overseas where THEY'RE STILL KILLING WORKERS BECAUSE OF NO PROTECTIVE REGULATIONS!!!!! Who the fuck do you think is applying that dangerous lead paint to the toys we're importing???? Elves?

Don't give me the capital gains crap either. Try investing $1,000 for capital gains. If you can find something. Capital gains is specifically designed for those who can invest millions. The middle class isn't getting any capital gains benefits. They're only getting ripped off by a Wall Street who destroyed their pensions and lost them all the savings they'd invested over the past forty years or more! Work harder my ass.

And it's never, ever, about a dollar amount of debt! It's always, ALWAYS, about the ability to pay that debt! The neurosurgeon making $5 million a year, can comfortably carry a whole lot more debt (at the same percentage of income) than I can. Same works with countries! But GW decided to cut the countries income while increasing it expenditures for little things like a couple wars not in the budget or paid for! And Obama, as ineffective as he can be at times, has been trying to restore at least a partial bit of that income and the GOP has consistently refused despite the fact that the tax breaks were never intended to be permanent.

'Rani

[Rani]

.......And while I'm mentioning tax breaks.... They were a fucking bribe to shut us all up. Nothing more. His presidency was in doubt from the first election he "sorta" won, to an economy being systematically raped by Wall Street, and he needed to shut up the American people while consolidating with his wealthy supporters and his own bank account. And now people are running around acting like the breaks were "owed" to us for some reason. And they were nothing more than a damned bribe to keep us quiet while they continued to wreck the global economy and OUR pensions! Or have you not noticed, every single pension plan is INVESTED in funds "managed" by Wall Street???? They bribed us and we took it. Stupid asses that we were.

'Rani

[Hassouni]

Rani, your last two posts were spot on in every point

[DrSmokes]

4 words: "Rich Dad, Poor Dad". I guess I should have said work smarter than work more...my bad.

People keep spending money they don't have for things that they don't [b]need [/b]just so they can "fit in" with the rest of the crowd. Americans are similar to the US government...spend a lot, make far less than they spend (credit anyone?). And we wonder why we are in this hot mess when it's simple math had the school system done a better job and parents smart enough to teach their kids about managing money early (that's what my parents did, been paying for myself since 16, and not much stuff was paid for prior to that). While there are tragedies out there such as people losing their jobs they held for 20+ years, those people could have been setting themselves up for the [b]future[/b]. Robert Kiyosaki has been talking about the collapse of our economy long before it even happened...he tried teaching people to set themselves up for the future. But...as a country, no one listened. So when I said "work more"...I didn't mean at your job. Sure, that helps you get ahead of things right now as long as you save, but working more towards your future is what I should have said (working smarter). Picking up books, learning about business (it doesn't take a college degree to learn this...i.e. I created my own business at 19, which made more than most [i]household [/i]families, and I didn't have any help), learn marketing, learn investing, etc. But, people want to stick to their jobs and not let their money make them money. That's fine and dandy, as long as you don't bitch about it.

I see my posts aren't popular with people...probably because they don't want to face the truth. I didn't grow up in a rich home...in fact, we were quite a bit in debt because my youngest brother was diagnosed with leukemia. So I was never handed a silver spoon...what I was handed was knowledge and the know how with money and knowing how to seek something with a drive and passion (which most people I've seen lack quite a bit). If what I say upsets you, then you are likely doing something wrong.

[Rani]

[quote name='DrSmokes' timestamp='1345588706' post='554700']
4 words: "Rich Dad, Poor Dad". I guess I should have said work smarter than work more...my bad.

People keep spending money they don't have for things that they don't [b]need [/b]just so they can "fit in" with the rest of the crowd. Americans are similar to the US government...spend a lot, make far less than they spend (credit anyone?). And we wonder why we are in this hot mess when it's simple math had the school system done a better job and parents smart enough to teach their kids about managing money early (that's what my parents did, been paying for myself since 16, and not much stuff was paid for prior to that). While there are tragedies out there such as people losing their jobs they held for 20+ years, those people could have been setting themselves up for the [b]future[/b]. Robert Kiyosaki has been talking about the collapse of our economy long before it even happened...he tried teaching people to set themselves up for the future. But...as a country, no one listened. So when I said "work more"...I didn't mean at your job. Sure, that helps you get ahead of things right now as long as you save, but working more towards your future is what I should have said (working smarter). Picking up books, learning about business (it doesn't take a college degree to learn this...i.e. I created my own business at 19, which made more than most [i]household [/i]families, and I didn't have any help), learn marketing, learn investing, etc. But, people want to stick to their jobs and not let their money make them money. That's fine and dandy, as long as you don't bitch about it.

I see my posts aren't popular with people...probably because they don't want to face the truth. I didn't grow up in a rich home...in fact, we were quite a bit in debt because my youngest brother was diagnosed with leukemia. So I was never handed a silver spoon...what I was handed was knowledge and the know how with money and knowing how to seek something with a drive and passion (which most people I've seen lack quite a bit). If what I say upsets you, then you are likely doing something wrong.
[/quote]

It's not the truth, that's the problem. The DID set themselves up for the future! The added to their 401K every single year, doubling the company contributions. They built IRA's, banked savings, for 20, 30, 40 and 50 years in some cases. AND ALL OF THOSE ARE INVESTED IN WALL STREET!!!!! Wall Street sent middle class people who had hundreds of thousands even a million or more in their retirement accounts back to NOTHING! They were wiped out, many of them after saving diligently for decades. When you put money into an account, do you really think it just sits there waiting for when you come back and get it? NO! It's invested by the bank in stocks, mutual funds, etc.. And the investors effectively ripped off the account holders when they intentionally crashed the economy to put more money into their own pocket. What part of that does not compute????? "Rich Dad, Poor Dad"????? You just proved my entire point!

'Rani

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1345270547' post='554374']
What a joke this guy is... My favorite article I've read about him thus far:

[url="http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/tom-morello-paul-ryan-is-the-embodiment-of-the-machine-our-music-rages-against-20120816"]http://www.rollingst...gainst-20120816[/url]
[/quote]
Good grief, that fish-wrapper is still around? going to them, and believing the BS they spew is a bit like going to GM for advice on buying a car that doesn't suck. Edited August 26, 2012 by TheScotsman

[Chreees]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1346024241' post='555137']
[quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1345270547' post='554374']
What a joke this guy is... My favorite article I've read about him thus far:

[url="http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/tom-morello-paul-ryan-is-the-embodiment-of-the-machine-our-music-rages-against-20120816"]http://www.rollingst...gainst-20120816[/url]
[/quote]
Good grief, that fish-wrapper is still around? going to them, and believing the BS they spew is a bit like going to GM for advice on buying a car that doesn't suck.
[/quote]

Lol, guess you too missed the point of the article...