headhunter Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 i was just wondering what you guys thing of this: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHbYJfwFgOU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHbYJfwFgOU[/url]. Not that i am hating on anyone's religion, believe what you will. I am just wondering your guys reaction to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I'm religious and I believe in evolution. Why couldn't God have created and planned for evolution? Or cause the Big Bang? Or any of the other scientific things people like to throw at religious people's faces? These things do not exist outside of the reality of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 [quote name='Tyler' timestamp='1346346952' post='555451'] I'm religious and I believe in evolution. Why couldn't God have created and planned for evolution? Or cause the Big Bang? Or any of the other scientific things people like to throw at religious people's faces? These things do not exist outside of the reality of God. [/quote] thats completely correct, at one point something had to create matter or start the big bang. Because of the fundamental rule that matter can not be created or destroyed. The thing he is targeting are the people that don't believe at all in the idea of Evolution. Basically people that believe 20,000 years ago god created everything you see now and that nothing has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I agree with him. There's proof to evolution. There's no proof to creationism. As for my kids, I hope they will still be teaching evolution in the textbooks when they go to school. EDIT: Fun fact.. I did this homeschooling program (called Gateway Christian Schools) during my high school years, and in one of my biology packets, it said, and I shit you not, that dinosaurs lived during the same time as man. It suggested that this is why there are legends of dragons and whatnot- people told the stories of the dinosaurs and over the generations the stories were altered. I went to my parents and said, "THIS SHIT IS CRAY CRAY." Or something along those lines. Whatever I would have said when I was around the age of 14 or 15... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassouni Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Bill Nye is a beast and he knows what's what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joytron Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 [quote name='Tyler' timestamp='1346346952' post='555451'] These things do not exist outside of the possibility of God. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1346348347' post='555453'] I agree with him. There's proof to evolution. There's no proof to creationism. As for my kids, I hope they will still be teaching evolution in the textbooks when they go to school. EDIT: Fun fact.. I did this homeschooling program (called Gateway Christian Schools) during my high school years, and in one of my biology packets, it said, and I shit you not,[b] that dinosaurs lived during the same time as man[/b]. It suggested that this is why there are legends of dragons and whatnot- people told the stories of the dinosaurs and over the generations the stories were altered. I went to my parents and said, "THIS SHIT IS CRAY CRAY." Or something along those lines. Whatever I would have said when I was around the age of 14 or 15... [/quote] so what it was saying is that science in a nutshell is wrong. That Carbon dating is false and that everything was created at once...stuff like that i hate. but i sure would have like to seen the explanation of how the dinosaurs became extinct and how human kind, and all the rest of the animals that survived, managed that...probably tied in with the Noah's Ark story..... i hate that things like that are allowed to exist, and that most likely it managed to create a group of people that believe/ed that. Believe that Modern Science is wrong in almost every way. Edited August 30, 2012 by headhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramps Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 It's best to keep science and religion separate. Science is really good at explaining how, but really sucks at explaining why. Religion is really good at explaining why, but really sucks at explaining how. My education was in the hard sciences, and I'm a deeply religious man. I believe in evolution and probably understand the mechanisms better than most. It just makes sense and has to be part of a science education. I don't want Creationism taught in school; the home and church can handle that if they want. In short, I pray to God we're still evolving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuie Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Just FYI Carbon Dating has been disproven on several occasions, Can't remember when I read it, but I did read in in WIRED several times over the years. Something about flooding and other natural disasters distorting the Carbon Release of everything. It was way above my head. Evolution has gaps. Especially since they only ever seem to find one of every intermediate species... fishy. If you allow the "Theory" of Evolution to be discussed you can't Discount the "Theory" of Creationism. Until either one is proven as fact or disproven as false, Saying Evolution is right and Creationism is wrong is a little self righteous is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramps Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 No, not at all self-righteous. The word "theory" means something entirely different in science than it does in everyday language. A theory is not a "guess". It's something that has literally been through the wringer and has survived all attempts to tear it down. Not to say a theory will stand forever; we're constantly learning and bettering our understanding; and a theory has to be able to be proved false. That's the point -- creationism is not science because it can't be proved false. What experiments would you set up to test a creation "theory"? By definition it's happened only once. Evolution, in contrast, happens continually and we have a good understanding about how it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainUM Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) when people say the "theory" of evolution they think of it in a scientific way. there is genuine proof of evolution, but there is no way of recreating the results as it would take millions of years to do so. you don't think the theory of gravity is just a theory, right? plus the "theory" of creationism is a theory in the sense of a hypothesis, as opposed to the scientific definition of the word "theory" there are very few laws in the scientific world for a reason from wikipedia: In science, the term "theory" refers to "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment."[11][12] Theories must also meet further requirements, such as the ability to make falsifiable predictions with consistent accuracy across a broad area of scientific inquiry, and production of strong evidence in favor of the theory from multiple independent sources. to claim creationism as a theory in the scientific context of the world would be absurd. i would like to see evidence of creationism to even begin any sort of argument. and don't think i'm not a fan of religion or anything, i come from a religious family. my mother, who used to be a trial lawyer, is now a high school science teacher who comes from a religious background. it would be one thing to claim that god made evolution happen exactly like it did, but it would be something else to claim he did something completely different. claiming creationism is just plain ignoring the facts out there edit: dammit gramps, you beat me to it Edited August 30, 2012 by IainUM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramps Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 My favorite science teacher in high school was a very, very religious woman. She would pray for you if you came to class dressed in black. But she taught evolution with a serious straight face and never mentioned creationism. To her it wasn't science; no matter how deeply she believed what the Bible said, she loved the scientific method and reason. To me Heaven has nothing to do with streets paved with gold and such stuff. It would be God saying, "Hey, let me show you how this works!" Wanna see a miracle? Watch water freeze. It's totally different from the way most other liquids freeze, and if it wasn't different, life couldn't exist. Lakes and oceans would freeze from the bottom up and never thaw. Water ice floats!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuie Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 okay I haven't had a science class in a while It's a Hypothesis. But neither are facts. Micro evolution (Adaptation) is proven I don't think Creation should be taught in schools. But I don't think it can be fully dismissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramps Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I believe God invented science, maybe just to make us think logically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Science once said they had genuine proof the earth was flat. Science once thought letting blood out, and covering people with leaches was a good idea to fix about everything. I recall the N-rays, Polyhydro, 4-humors, geocentric universe, miasma illness, luminous aether, The planet Vulcan (not the star trek one, the 19th century version between Mercury, and the sun), Phlogiston, tabula rasa theory, canals on Mars, yada, yada, yada..... All supported by the scientific facts of their time, now they are wrong. Science can be, and often is as wrong as catbox flavoured shisha. By it's very nature science requires repeatable, documented proof, or it is only a theory. Evolution has too many holes, and missing pieces to be able to document any single case of evolution perfectly. Until such exists, it's only a theory, and not fact. In the case of evolution theory there has been a definite confirmation bias, which risks have turning the whole concept into a perfect solution fallacy. Creation is just as looney in it's best versions, and downright batshit crazy when preached by the nuts on the far end. I don't even want to try to figure them out, it gives me a headache worse than cheap quicklights. In the purest sense of logic, both theories are right, and wrong, until one is observed to be correct. That can't be done with bones, fossils, and bibles. One day maybe we will have access to facts, and the technology to repeat the events that either side claims as truth, until then, it's just so much horseshit. Now that that is done, which came first, the proverbial chicken, or the egg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramps Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Again, saying evolution is "just a theory" misses the scientific definition of theory. It's not just a guess, or even a best guess. Nor is it law written in stone. It has been studied, tested, probed, questioned, and been the subject of countless experiments. Sure, one day it may be superseded by a better theory, but no one will cry for the old one. We move on, building on what we've learned before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainUM Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 to say "science" said that leeches would get the bad out of your blood is ridiculous. that was a time when it was run by superstition, not cold, hard facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassouni Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I'm with Iain on every point. What "holes" are there? It's one of the most rock-solid pillars of modern science. PS, you CAN see evolution in a human timescale: short-lived animals can develop beneficial mutations within a few generations, such as rodents or insects, or for that matter, some bacteria, becoming resistant to pesticides/antibiotics. That is evolution in its most simple definition. If you disagree, then what would you call it? Animal breeding, i.e. creating distinct breeds of dog, sheep, whatever, is another type of evolution, though a forced and sped-up one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoRSX Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 [quote name='IainUM' timestamp='1346370894' post='555499'] to claim creationism as a theory in the scientific context of the world would be absurd. [/quote] I believe here in lies the rub, science and religion in my humble opinion occupy completely different worlds. Not to say there isn't people who try to forcibly combine those 2. My only issue with this Bill Nye thing is more in the context of free speech/what certain groups cry about when their group is "bad mouthed". I watched the Bill Nye video, it basically belittles people who chose to raise their children with that belief. To say that if you believe in creationism, that you aren't a free thinker or can't contribute to the scientific community is asinine at best. Here is a list of Christians that made notable contributions to science. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_thinkers_in_science"]http://en.wikipedia....kers_in_science[/url] But the video expressed his point of view/opinions/feeling, I'm all good with that. To me his video comes off more divisive then anything. Instead of bringing people together, the video casts a group in a negative light. On a side note, a Roman catholic priest by the name of Georges Lemaitre was the first person ever to propose the idea of the Big Bang Theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
â€On Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 You know what I think? That's it's not worth worrying about. Seriously, if you REALLY worry about stuff like this (and nobody pays you to), you need to get a hobby. Whether there is or isn't a god and whether he planned for evolution or it happened because of a vast series of natural phenomenon occurring in a very specific way has no bearing on any of our lives. Shit is going to happen whether or not you believe it will (whether that be by the will of a "god" or because of science), and it really just doesn't matter. Maybe wooly mammoths and t-rexs fucked up everyone's day 4 thousand or 400 thousand years ago. Maybe carbon dating says some guy lived in a cave 60 thousand years ago. Maybe carbon dating is wrong. Maybe god is just trolling all of us right now. Maybe god was a dinosaur and died out with the rest of them and humans just reinterpreted dinosaur language orally and passed that down as their own story because they were too fucking unoriginal to make up their own story, then they just kept ripping it off over and over and changing the details so that future generations would be like "ta fuck am I supposed to believe in?". Maybe... I was going to go into a big rant about my personal viewpoints on all of this, but...then I just went on living my life. You should too. Seriously. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 And the "best answer" first prize goes to Aeon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 God is great...... Religion on the other hand is whack. The perfect example is a very irreverent joke.... God wants to go on vacation. His angels are giving him ideas where to go. He rejects Alpha Centuri, Mars, Adromeda, etc. Finally one angel suggests he return to earth. "Earth!" he says, "no way I'm going back to earth. I was there 2,000 years ago and they're still claiming I knocked up some Jewish chick." God. Perfectly logical until you get the churches involved. 'Rani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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