Voter ID Laws

[Chreees]

What do you guys think about all the voter ID laws being passed in many states?

This is just beyond ridiculous. It's basically rigging the system...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8[/media]

You gotta admit its sad when you gotta sink to this to win an election.

And now I see this:

[url="http://www.politicolnews.com/tagg-romney-invested-in-ohio-electronic-voting-machines/#ixzz29idmPoLV"]http://www.politicol.../#ixzz29idmPoLV[/url]

No politician should be invested in machines that are used to vote, nor should someone who is as close to the election as Tagg Romney is. He's basically Mitt's right-hand man, and has been with him in previous election campaigns before.

Sarah Silverman said it right:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypRW5qoraTw[/media]

Here's the website, which is actually quite informational on the topic: [url="http://letmypeoplevote2012.com/"]http://letmypeoplevote2012.com/[/url]

Here in TN university students can't use their school IDs, but if you have a gun carry permit, no problem. Ridiculous.

THIS SHIT is what our politicians are worried with, when we SHOULD be worried about other things... Like, ya know, the economy, jobs, everything fucking else...

/endrant

[headhunter]

wow....just wow...honestly i am not surprised at any of this, its just a corrupt government taking more control over the already rather useless elections (in my option/view). Its just insurance for the politicians that they get only the people [b]they [/b]want to vote...hey who gives a shit about the rights of the people of the united states of america? not the government for sure.

[Rani]

While it's true in theory that no one without a driver's license or social security card will be able to vote, they may be in for a surprise. I'm in California working a day job in the construction industry. We have A LOT of illegal aliens in this industry, which shouldn't be there but that's a different issue. The point is every single one of them I've ever met........ Has a driver's license, and a social security card, etc. Nobody really checks that crap, not really. Even eVerify doesn't catch all the phony identities. Given how unbelievably "pro-white wealth class" the GOP has become, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if they all showed up and voted under their illegal identification, These fools think they're "taking the country back". All they're doing is taking us many, many steps closer to blood in the streets.

'Rani

[Venger]

sadly soon enough we will have to prove we have health insurance or be fined but we don't need to prove citizenship to vote.
who's country is this anyway? We should all vote no confidence and make them prove the fix is already in.
Ray

[Stuie]

I don't think we should have straight up Voter Specific ID's but you should have to prove you are who you say you are. I could drive up to OK and vote with a fake name and not even have any ID, and here in Texas you just have to know a name and an address. All you need is a phone book to commit voter fraud.

[Chreees]

After some research, I'm of the opinion that politicians are just making voter fraud out to be a bigger deal than it actually is.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2012/04/24/the-myth-of-voter-fraud

http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/19/gop-group-dismisses-study-saying-voter-fraud-cases-infinitesimal/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48098099/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/voter-fraud-rampant-youre-more-likely-report-ufo/#.UIIuAIVOyyQ

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/14/1120075/-Study-Shows-Voter-Fraud-Virtually-Non-Existent-Red-States-Eliminating-Legal-Voters

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/daily-show-voter-fraud-statistics-are-limited-only-as-much-as-your-imagination-20120613

[Skoozle]

[quote name='Stuie' timestamp='1350698876' post='558855']
I don't think we should have straight up Voter Specific ID's but you should have to prove you are who you say you are. I could drive up to OK and vote with a fake name and not even have any ID, and here in Texas you just have to know a name and an address. All you need is a phone book to commit voter fraud.
[/quote]

I kinda think that if someone wants to go through the effort to vote more than once, let them.

Hell, we can't get 30% of the population to get off their asses to vote even once.

[gramps]

Is it too much to ask that anybody who votes in this country be a legal citizen and eligible to vote?

Think very carefully about what you're saying when you advocate that anybody who is in this country should vote regardless.

[Chreees]

[quote name='gramps' timestamp='1350752613' post='558887']Is it too much to ask that anybody who votes in this country be a legal citizen and eligible to vote?

Think very carefully about what you're saying when you advocate that anybody who is in this country should vote regardless.[/quote]

Who's saying that?


Tapatalk'd via iPhone

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1350708850' post='558865']
After some research, I'm of the opinion that politicians are just making voter fraud out to be a bigger deal than it actually is.

[url="http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2012/04/24/the-myth-of-voter-fraud"]http://www.usnews.co...-of-voter-fraud[/url]

[url="http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/19/gop-group-dismisses-study-saying-voter-fraud-cases-infinitesimal/"]http://dailycaller.c...-infinitesimal/[/url]

[url="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48098099/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/voter-fraud-rampant-youre-more-likely-report-ufo/#.UIIuAIVOyyQ"]http://www.msnbc.msn...o/#.UIIuAIVOyyQ[/url]

[url="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/14/1120075/-Study-Shows-Voter-Fraud-Virtually-Non-Existent-Red-States-Eliminating-Legal-Voters"]http://www.dailykos....ng-Legal-Voters[/url]

[url="http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/daily-show-voter-fraud-statistics-are-limited-only-as-much-as-your-imagination-20120613"]http://www.rollingst...nation-20120613[/url]
[/quote]You couldn't come up with a more biased list presstitutes if you tried. Cherio, some day you might even find some sources that are at least only slightly leaning left, and not far-left poster children... until then, that crap isn't worth using.

As for a student id vs a CCW, Hmm... I think the fact a CCW requires you to be a legal US citizen in good standing, and has been background checked to prove you are a citizen may be a factor. None of which is true with a student ID. But then, anyone not trying to play that fake liberal outrage game would have thought of that first.

As for ID's, it's a great idea! passport, voter ID, some item actually verified as being held by a real citizen. if the black panthers can stand out front in paramilitary uniforms, with clubs to intimidate voters, I think ID's are a great idea. I think NG units stationed at the polls would be nice too. Maybe a mandatory 10K/10 years for voting illegally. All sounds fine to me. Maybe even a quick drug test while we are at it.

If you are trying to say we should just trust people to tell the truth, and not vote when they are not legally doing so... while they are illegally in the country already, you gotta be kidding.

[Rani]

It's one of the issues I'm a bit torn about. I don't see why it should generally be a problem, however, and it's a great big HOWEVER, the voter identification laws have been in place before and were found to be discriminatory and used to prevent the poor and black from voting. California had one up until about some years ago. I remember voting in 2008 and being surprised I wasn't asked to show my drivers license because I always had to previously. (I skipped a few years voting so I'm not sure when it was repealed.) I seem to vaguely recall there was something about constitutionality and the voting process involved though. I can't recall the details, but it has something to do with freedom to vote regardless of if you're registered under any other government organization in any form whatsoever. It approaches a national identification program which most people are dead set against for fairly obvious reasons. (Being that registering citizens is the first step in a truly fascist state.)

But I seem to recall it's also tied up with the fact that it's part of our basic rights and privileges that you don't actually HAVE to carry identification to prove who you are. You have to have a driver's license to drive, and it's conveniently used as a photo identification, but if you don't drive you don't need one. The same is true of student identification, passport, etc. If you don't use it for the purpose it was originally intended, going to school, traveling outside the country, etc., you aren't required to have them. I believe that's the direction under which it was struck down. And when we're talking precedents, etc., and how the government encroaches more and more, I'm kind of thinking I agree that I'd rather have a little bit of voter fraud than an entire nation of "registered" citizens.

'Rani

[Chreees]

Exactly... It's our RIGHT to vote. I guess you want them to take that away, huh, Scotsman?


Tapatalk'd via iPhone

[Venger]

the trouble is things are not as simple as they first seemed. Yes you do not need to prove you are a citizen by carrying papers, you also don't live in a town of 600 people that all go to the same church. We also never thought anyone would need to sneak into the country but, since the creation of the United states, we have had to change our immigration laws. no one is being asked to do anything unreasonable. every state will issue (and as a state and not a federal agency can require) a photo ID be it a drivers license,pistol permit or just STATE ID. you only need your birth cert (to prove ID and 2 forms of mail (bills,we all got them) with your current address. you can be a student,black,white,male,female,over 18 or older than fuck. They won't even ask your sexual preference. Any body who can't or wont do this is probably not supposed to be voting.
lets think about these things with our heads not our hearts. Not everyone is out to fuck you over.I promise.
Ray

[Rani]

[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1350940718' post='558986']
the trouble is things are not as simple as they first seemed. Yes you do not need to prove you are a citizen by carrying papers, you also don't live in a town of 600 people that all go to the same church. We also never thought anyone would need to sneak into the country but, since the creation of the United states, we have had to change our immigration laws. no one is being asked to do anything unreasonable. every state will issue (and as a state and not a federal agency can require) a photo ID be it a drivers license,pistol permit or just STATE ID. you only need your birth cert (to prove ID and 2 forms of mail (bills,we all got them) with your current address. you can be a student,black,white,male,female,over 18 or older than fuck. They won't even ask your sexual preference. Any body who can't or wont do this is probably not supposed to be voting.
lets think about these things with our heads not our hearts. Not [b]everyone[/b] is out to fuck you over.I promise.
Ray
[/quote]

I would agree with not everyone, but when it comes to government, I do not agree. Because historically, every single time the government gained too much power it was abused. Every. Single. Time. Why do you think our founding fathers specifically avoided that? And you want to give it to them yet again? You won't have to worry about your children assuming debt. You'll be worrying they're going to survive at all.

Who's the one nation that interred otherwise loyal citizens on their own soil, based entirely on ethnicity,while stripping then of all property until the end of WWII? The United States.
Who's the one nation that has actually used a nuclear bomb against a civilian unarmed population? The United States.
Which nation actually went to war against itself to maintain slavery? The United States.
Which nation has invaded almost every other nation? The United States.
Which nation practiced genocide on it's own aboriginal people and refused the survivors citizenship until 1924? The United States.
Which nation actually armed the Middle East? The United States.
Which nation has a history of financially supporting despots? The United States.

And you want to give them more power? More information? More than they already have? Ray, you are clearly not thinking clearly........Either that or you slept through history class four years running.

'Rani

[Venger]

All of those thing occurred at a federal level and you and I could not agree more that the federal government should have less, not more power. I was simply suggesting the states can (CAN, not should) enforce an ID policy. States rights should always out weigh those of the Federal Government.

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1350940718' post='558986']
the trouble is things are not as simple as they first seemed. Yes you do not need to prove you are a citizen by carrying papers, you also don't live in a town of 600 people that all go to the same church. We also never thought anyone would need to sneak into the country but, since the creation of the United states, we have had to change our immigration laws. no one is being asked to do anything unreasonable. every state will issue (and as a state and not a federal agency can require) a photo ID be it a drivers license,pistol permit or just STATE ID. you only need your birth cert (to prove ID and 2 forms of mail (bills,we all got them) with your current address. you can be a student,black,white,male,female,over 18 or older than fuck. They won't even ask your sexual preference. Any body who can't or wont do this is probably not supposed to be voting.
lets think about these things with our heads not our hearts. Not everyone is out to fuck you over.I promise.
Ray
[/quote]

A birth certificate!!! You mean I need one to vote, but the president doesn't need one to hold the office???





sorry, I just couldn't resist.

[Chreees]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1350962376' post='559013']
[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1350940718' post='558986']
the trouble is things are not as simple as they first seemed. Yes you do not need to prove you are a citizen by carrying papers, you also don't live in a town of 600 people that all go to the same church. We also never thought anyone would need to sneak into the country but, since the creation of the United states, we have had to change our immigration laws. no one is being asked to do anything unreasonable. every state will issue (and as a state and not a federal agency can require) a photo ID be it a drivers license,pistol permit or just STATE ID. you only need your birth cert (to prove ID and 2 forms of mail (bills,we all got them) with your current address. you can be a student,black,white,male,female,over 18 or older than fuck. They won't even ask your sexual preference. Any body who can't or wont do this is probably not supposed to be voting.
lets think about these things with our heads not our hearts. Not everyone is out to fuck you over.I promise.
Ray
[/quote]

A birth certificate!!! You mean I need one to vote, but the president doesn't need one to hold the office???

sorry, I just couldn't resist.
[/quote]

If only the "birther" argument was a valid one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttt0itAOEbg

[Venger]

I think Scottsman was cracking wise.

[Rani]

Ahhh Haaa! We now know the real identity of Scotsman! It's Donald Trump! Which means we also have the opportunity to settle a global debate once and for all.........

Come on Donny Boy, admit it......... It's a rug, right?

'Rani

[Rani]

Okay, in all seriousness....... I came across some additional information that has some bearing on why the whole requirement (of any kind) to vote is an issue. Did you know, (because I didn't) that until the mid 1800's, you weren't allowed to vote at all unless you owned property? So essentially the right to vote was being intentionally isolated to the "wealthy" of the time.

What should scare people about this kind of movement is that we're going backwards to a time we rejected as being unfair and even inhumane. Take labor standards and the minimum wage for instance. It came about because company owners were for all intents and purposes literally enslaving their workers. You had to work however many hours they demanded at whatever pay they chose to give you, you were forced to buy goods from the company owned store at inflated prices, and underage workers were common. Anyone who studies history and especially the history of the United States, and I'm not just talking about documents like the Declaration, the first Congress, etc., but about actual policy and events taking place around the country, you'd be fighting like crazy to keep us from taking even one step back in that direction, History is only useful when we learn from it, and it seems we keep forgetting ours.

'Rani

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1351003166' post='559036']
Ahhh Haaa! We now know the real identity of Scotsman! It's Donald Trump! Which means we also have the opportunity to settle a global debate once and for all.........

Come on Donny Boy, admit it......... It's a rug, right?

'Rani
[/quote]

I think I learned the property requirements in 5th or 6th grade, and I was not even in a US school. Still makes sense in the context of the era, people not invested in the outcome were not voting. The idea was to prevent a foreign power (GB at the time was a bit of a concern) from flooding any US election with torries.