I Hate Society!

[ChicagoRSX]

So while on duty this week, a visitor came to visit her "baby daddy". She whined for 10 straight minutes"I can't believe that I have to pregnant for 9 months while he's locked up. This is bullshit!" She then proceeded to inquire about putting money on his account. I checked this guys history, he's a career criminal. Locked up easily 15 times in the last 3 years, drug charges to assaults. And this is the human being your are going to sleep with and have unprotected sex with(again, she included that bit in her earlier rant). What the hell is wrong with society?

[Stuie]

If only we could point to one thing, and fix it...

Bad Parenting is one of them.

I have a really immature step-cousin who has 2 kids from different dads and is currently dating a guy that has 2 kids. She has MAJOR daddy issues. Always dated guys way older. Her dad was a car salesman who's only thought was of work and never his family. Her first marriage I remember him saying before the wedding.... and I Quote "I am so happy she's getting married, maybe she can keep busy for a while without calling all the time."

[Venger]

I hate to sound like a religious nut but it is a lack of God in our society. People no longer have any shame. Whether you believe in God or not there was a moral stick in the sand (as it were) that most people would not cross. People didn't have 24/7 access to porn. Kids had curfews and were embarrassed or scared to disappoint their parents. When a teacher called home with a problem,parents followed up and made sure it didn't happen again. People respected not feared the law. Police were people in our neighborhoods who's kids we grew up with and new our parents. The goal in life was to get out of school and get a job that made more money than our parents. Being pregnant before marriage was shameful and regarded as something to be avoided. Church reminded us that others besides ourselves were watching how we acted and would judge us on that behavior and it didn't only reflect poorly on us but our whole family. Family (a strange word these days for some) was the group of people you lived with,cried with,Ate with and went to church with.A lack of self respect and shame is what is going to be the downfall of our society. Happened to Babylon,Rome and now us.
-end rant-

[ChicagoRSX]

Agreed Venger.

[â€On]

People were shitty before god, people will be shitty after god. To blame problems on a god, or the lack of a god, is ignoring the fact that humanity is diverse and varied. Over the years, look at how popular genocide has been (with or without a god), this is because people are trying to get other people to think the way they do, and when they don't? Well, that's that. War has been popular because people disagree. I'm going to make a statement, and I would like to see how many of you disagree with one or more of things I say.

I don't believe in any form of higher power, god or otherwise. I think abortion is a postive choice. I think sex is something that should be enjoyed as much as possible, but only on birth control. I think ignorance to science and facts is holding back people. I think the average school testing scores from across the planet reflect that this problem is getting worse. I think energy drinks are retarded. etc etc etc.

You see my point? We are civil here, but there are fundamental things many of us disagree on and that will never change. Those seeds have been planted, and it only takes the right conditions for hate and intolerance to grow from them, until the roots are cracking the foundations. Don't like someone? Good, you're not alone. Disagree with them? Not alone. Humans are diverse, and to think "oh, we can make them see our way" is ridiculous. It's how the crusades started. It's how Rome fell. It's how Khan fell. It's a bunch of bullshit to think like that. I hate 90% of the people I meet because I think they are fucking stupid, but you know what? They have every right to be stupid. I think a lot of you forget that the constitution is in place not to protect you from those idiots, those minorites, those unpopular viewpoints....it's in place to protect them from you.

[Venger]

It is not their lack in a belief in a god per say. It is a lack or morality,shame,and respect that is the problem. I mentioned God,family and church and the lack there of because that is where I learned (and many others I would suspect) how to be moral,respectful and to feel shame when I do something wrong. I have met some atheists that had a much higher moral ground than some church goers. But we need to ask ourselves where do we draw the line between people just doing their own thing to full blown sociopaths. When did it become ok for people to have as many sex partners as possible regardless of the consequence.Mommies with 3 different babies and babies daddies,where is the shame. High school drop outs pissed at their government for not giving them free money. Personal responsibility is what is required and I fear it is in very short supply.

[â€On]

What you are saying sounds less to me like "people need god in their lives" and more like "children need parents in their lives". Just saying.

[Coleman]

[quote name='aeon' timestamp='1354822862' post='564123']What you are saying sounds less to me like "people need god in their lives" and more like "children need parents in their lives". Just saying.[/quote]

He isn't saying people need god in their lives though Ty he explained that he was saying they need morals and church was where he learned those. He was using himself and other good religious folks as an example

[â€On]

And I get that, and I think that's fine, but the majority of people who learned these good values would have probably learned them at home as well because their parents obviously wanted to install those values in them. If you're a lousy parent, you're going to have lousy kids, that's just how it goes.

[Coleman]

Probably doesn't help we have shows like 16 and pregnant glorifying being unwed ad preggo at such a young age. Or shows like jersey shore making people think its ok to act that way. Look at how television has changed even in tue past ten years and past twenty years. Then look how families spend dinners out to some fast food restaurant or in front of the tv a when I was a kid we sat at the dinner table and had home cooked meals

[Nerdy]

Alright here is my tale on it, for what it's worth I think we can start by thanking mass media for the "uncommon" sense it has dropped and instilled upon the general public. Kids have been growing up to reality shows and music videos as baby sitters.

People have never been lazier either. Instead of being thankful for having a job, they bitch and moan about having to go to work and SIT in a chair, or crunch numbers. I watched a documentary on the Empire state building and there was a guy who was on there who helped build it, he started working at 15 or 16. He left school, to take care of his family. Busting his teenage ass building a skyscraper. Man that is honorable. Name me 5 teens in this era that would put down the iPad or get off of myBook or faceSpace and help their sturggeling family out.

I also feel like there is this "auto pilot" feature that many people have. Instead of stopping to think about something, they just do and don't know why. That is where most of this bullshit comes from, the mind being on sleep mode. I can't speak for the people who are blinded by these things or thoughts and say why they would even want to be in a situation like that "baby daddy in jail but i got another man on the side. 5 different babies to worry about but I'm gonna buy some Gucci nails for myself" but I have a solution.

My solution to all of this is a 2 part process.
1. Stop all of the fluff we have in the world. We need to say truer things to make people aware of their flaws, aware of their talents, aware of their pros and their cons to put it loosely. You can't encourage everyone of everything they do. If its good say its good. If its bad say its bad, don't glaze over it because your afraid to hurt their feelings. This reminds me of the whole everyone gets a throphy at little league just for participating. NO! Winners get the glory and the losers ... Well better luck next time around.

2. People need to be smacked ... Hard!! And I mean by a big beefy drunken hill billy named Jimbothy. I believe that there needs to be a major wake up call. We as a social unit should be rebelling against thing, taking charge of what we want and need. What we need is to enjoy life, not have 1500 more Starbucks opened up, not have a KFC and Pizza Hut in china, not have sluts and gang bangers make millions off of a reality show that is mindless entertainment. We could all put an end to this is we just joined up together and say NO, thank you I don't want it extra crispy ill make it my damn self.

Anyways I have more to say on this but work is starting to get busy. If I jumped randomly from topic to topic, just know that I was start stopping while working. Maybe tonight ill start another venting session on this.

[Bawhee]

Eh, what youre listing up there are your ideas on whats wrong and what isnt wrong though... See a person whose decisions in life you might consider stupid they might like. They might enjoy their life that might seems ridiculous to us. And directly relating to Urloc, KFC in China is clearly there cause there is demand, supply and demand is how business works, and honestly KFC is delicious. The thing that people are missing isnt morals, its respect. If everyone learned to respect other people and (quite importantly I think) themselves, then the world would be a better place. And that has to be taught to kids at home, and since the educational process is being so overly extended in school too.... personally I think children are overprotected these days, parents wanna put their kid in a bubble where no one can touch them (insults, scraps with other kids etc.). Honestly kids these days are all like the "rich kids" in 80s films where, bratty due to being over protected by their parents. And that carries over to adulthood.

For the record this might be my most serious post on this forum ever. Also this is aimed at the currently 14-16 kids in Slovenia, Id assume thats what my generation is generally like in the US since we are a bit behind you guys...

EDIT: also, I would like to add that I have been witnessing the changes that make this happen cause my generation was the last that still used the old educational system, also a big factor is how old the parents of these kids are... Edited December 6, 2012 by Bawhee

[Chreees]

Society always has and always will suck.

[Rani]

I think the biggest problem with humanity is simple: Civilization. The bigger our civilization gets, the less in touch we become with the foundation of who and what we are. Between peer pressure and living up to the Jones' we've become greedy and unprincipled. In fact we REWARD greed and unprincipled behavior. There's an anonymity in big civilizations that allow people to hide behind a facade. We're better in small communities and tribes. We're better working together in small groups. We're not involved in each other lives anymore, working cooperatively for everyone. Community has died as civilization has grown. One example I love...... In Native American culture, contrary to popular belief, women are in complete control of the marriage and children. She owns everything. He traditionally owns his horse, his clothes and his weapons and that's it. If a husband behaves badly, he comes home and finds his belongs outside his lodging. He has to pick them up, and return to his mothers house showing the entire community that his wife would rather have no man at all then spend another day with him. His mother may or may not take him in depending on what she thinks of his behavior. Now, how many deadbeat fathers and abusive husbands do you think there are under such circumstances? Very few. In fact, until Native Americans were forced into civilization it was unheard of. Bad behavior in a small community is much more rare because the punishment is to be exiled from that community.

Everything about "civilization" seems borderline evil to me. We allow religious leaders to build up enormous power and squash individuality because we consider religion to be a basic tenant of civilization. We elect leaders who have spent the equivalent of the GNP of a small country on their election. We reward greed. Houses aren't enough anymore, we must have mansions. Our cars don't get us from one place to the other anymore, they're fashion and personal statements of "success". We have doctors who have gone to medical school for the big bucks it will bring to them instead of healers who invested personally in the wellness of the community members. We idolize reality show celebrities showing ridiculous and obscene behavior. We plop our children in front of those same reality shows and expect them to be raised with values that simply do not exist in those celebrities. We've stood back and washed our hands, expecting someone else to tell us how to live our lives, whether it's the government or our religious leader. Civilization has overcome our own intelligence and compassion. We place all our expectations on it instead of trusting in ourselves. Without trust in ourselves, there is no self-esteem that would have us make good choices for ourselves. We've lost our connection with the divine that lives in all of us as we struggle to connect with standards and goals that have nothing to do with peace, or compassion, or community. Standards based entirely on greed and mine, mine, mine.

There's no real way out. There are too many people but I think the evil of civilization is what drives people into cults and extremism. Whatever else these things are, they are small communities. The answer might be to start rebuilding small communities within civilization but not subservient to it. Churches could be a strong part of that but there are too many looking to collect tithes rather than actually care about their members. Religion has become the path to wealth and power instead of service to people and something greater than ourselves. We need to rebuild communities, and if that means we have to do so within this huge civilization, then that's what we have to do.

'Rani

[Bawhee]

But whats right and whats wrong changes as societys views change and unless we (or rather you, and my generation after yours) raises their children to accept these views humanity as a whole wont change. It might be a futile endeavor though... theres just too many people.

[Chreees]

Oh, and about the god thing... I think the world would be a lot better of a place without religion. Why? Because most people (MOST, not all) think their religion is the only right religion and aren't accepting of what other people believe. This has led to war and whatnot for thousands of years. Just look at the Crusades, etc. It's everywhere in history. Religion was the motivation behind this. Think about how different things would have been without it. Oh, who am I kidding... There probably would have just been another reason in its place.

[Bawhee]

Thats the irony of it, most of the big religions teach people to be respectful to others, but thats where what Rani was saying comes in, once individuals want power and their over zealous followers do as theyre told things go awry... nothing wrong with religion in concept if it helps you in your daily life and struggles, but kind of like what I wrote in the plastic guns thread... people find a way to make anything violent and evil, if it serves their purpose.

[Venger]

correct on all points Rani. It is the loss of community that seems to be the root of this. Everything I mentioned, from church, to family, to knowing the local policemen and their families, was all about the community and the respect for it. We should not have words like "baby daddy" and "dead beat dad" in our lexicon because people should be embarrassed to be called that. As far as the crusades being under the flag of religion that was a smoke screen. The Muslims were making a push to take over the world under the banner of their religion so it was easy to convince "good Christians" to rise up against the threat. But it was a power/land grab by both groups.

[Bawhee]

To an extent your post proves my point though... youre defending your religion though nobody can be sure what really happened back then... according to history the victor had the moral high ground. And if you were to take your thoughts on it and put them into someone extremist you would get a person saying the crusades were all justified, then do the same with a muslim extremist and bam you have a fight... Religion should be personal, people with the same beliefs joining together to do their worshiping of whatever kind is ok, an organisation using that belief to its advantage should be disbanned.

[Rani]

[quote name='Bawhee' timestamp='1354839391' post='564202']
But whats right and whats wrong changes as societys views change and unless we (or rather you, and my generation after yours) raises their children to accept these views humanity as a whole wont change. It might be a futile endeavor though... theres just too many people.
[/quote]

I would agree...... except........ and it's a big exception....... Look at the Amish. They are a community within civilization. It doesn't matter that there are modern conveniences outside their communities, they simply ignore them. Those conveniences simply might as well not exist. The same is true of say, a monastery. A community built both within and outside of civilization. Does it really matter if the rest of the world goes it's own way so long as your community go the way they choose? Each person has to decide what's truly valuable and the best of human nature, bond with others of the same inclination and suddenly you have a community. We have examples all around us with those monasteries, Amish communities, even lodges, etc. Notice how a boy or girl scout troop tends to become a limited community where the majority of activity takes place. They step away from the reality show in the interest of a camping trip. We have a fairly well-formed community here. We often disagree, but we communicate, consistently learn from each other, and progress. Oh we have a lot of members or former members who were here for a brief moment, but we also have a core community that I can't imagine wouldn't help another core member. I think if we really want humanity to survive and become something to be proud of again, we need to form communities and keep forming them. And when civilization crumbles because it will crumble - they all have eventually - then the communities will be left. That meek shall inherit the earth isn't about humility so much as it is about staying out of the way of the greed.

'Rani

[Bawhee]

Ill point out that my previous post only refers to the part about the crusades, the other bit of the post I have mixed feelings on, the thing is that if you were to try to reinstate these smaller communities within our current society, well I imagine the way people are it would be like having gang wars. Some would disagree with others and as we all know human nature well enough there would be strife, and here we go again. Thats why I think we have to make do with what we have and see how we can alter it within current limitations, looking back to the past is good for inspiration, but just pulling out something that once worked will not solve anything I think.

[Bawhee]

too late to edit so here goes another post:
The Amish work but thats because they are left to do as they do and in time of need they can get help from the rest of society if they have to. But imagine if you had all these communities set up some would be similar, others different and in times of need alliances would be formed, as they once were... Some would stick together, others would not, they would get larger and larger, there would be merging and separating and there would be strife. And eventually we are up to having countries and religions and this and that... all this already happened and it led us to here and now. So I think drawing from the parts in the past that worked would be wise, but we must adapt to the present situation and not repeat old mistakes. As for monasteries, those are rarely entirely self dependent and Im sure they would in the case of community forming as you described decide to stick with someone, probably.

[Rani]

[quote name='Bawhee' timestamp='1354849349' post='564223']
too late to edit so here goes another post:
The Amish work but thats because they are left to do as they do and in time of need they can get help from the rest of society if they have to. But imagine if you had all these communities set up some would be similar, others different and in times of need alliances would be formed, as they once were... Some would stick together, others would not, they would get larger and larger, there would be merging and separating and there would be strife. And eventually we are up to having countries and religions and this and that... all this already happened and it led us to here and now. So I think drawing from the parts in the past that worked would be wise, but we must adapt to the present situation and not repeat old mistakes. As for monasteries, those are rarely entirely self dependent and Im sure they would in the case of community forming as you described decide to stick with someone, probably.
[/quote]

Your post seems to say you assume the worst of human nature. I think perhaps we're better off working with the best of it.

'Rani

[Bawhee]

Assume the worst hope for the best, not just here but in practical problem solving and such. Always assume the worst possible outcome and do your best to overcome it, then even if the solution is not perfect (most likely it wont be) it still has a high chance of success. That said I cant come up with a solution to this problem... maybe when we combine our thoughts though, eh? Anyways, its getting late here, I need to get to bed, I look forward to reading what you all write in the next 6 or so hours when Im sleeping.

[Bawhee]

I will just add one more thing:
If people discussed things like this where everyone has an opinion that can vary extremely and other matters in life the way we are doing it here, eloquently and calmly... the world would be a better place.