mattarios2 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 So as many of you know I had issues with tang years ago. I got some flavors to work pretty well but for the most part it ended up being more of a headache rather than enjoyment. Well my girlfriend surprised me with a 250g of k peach for xmas b/c she knew I was in love with the flavor and had ok results with it, not great but pretty good. I just opened the tub tonight about 20 min ago My initial response compared to tang years ago ... 1.) It wasn't as drenched in juices as in the past, it seemed like the juices were fused in the tobacco better than in the past (I am guessing b/c of point number 2) 2.) The tobacco was chopped up waaaaay more than it used to be. I remember long reasonably thick strands of tobacco, now it is more minced up more in between I suppose. 3.) I did the 5 minutes of kneading prior to opening it and wow, I opened the 250g and instantly it smelt like it was ready to smoke, and in the past it ALWAYS needed a minimum of a couple 4/20's. 4.) Super stoked and will be ripping a nice small phunnel of it on Wednesday. 5.) 2 Questions for a refresher, my small phunnel holds 40g of mizo and 45g of OG nakhla. 5a.) What would you recommend for coals? 3 half cocos/CH? All I have is cocos or CH's at the moment. 5b.) If 40g of mizo and 45g of og nak rips perfectly in this bowl, what is a general idea for amount of tobacco to use? 50g? I know all about the tutorials and videos and everything, just want an idea of the density and would be nice to use my success w nak in that bowl for comparison. I will be doing the foil test and know it should be packed similarly to how it is in the bag when you buy it. Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epoch Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Regarding the amount of tobacco: grab a fork, and shovel a bunch of tobacco in the bowl. Press it down until it's all tight. Add or subtract tobacco until it's all tight and flush with the rim of the bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Pack it as tight as it comes in the package before you open it. That's a good rule of thumb. 2-3 coconut coals. I usually do two and a windcover on/off on my Tangiers Mini and Small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavo21 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 i am not 100% sure of how much goes into a small phunnel grams wise, but i doubt its 50, because you'd only get 5 bowls outta 250, which i cant believe to be even close to true.. But i actually use my fingers unlike most tangiers people, but i prefer it. I feel like my bowls work just as fine and i also feel i can tell how much more pressure i use to push down the tobacco. and as chris said its a good rule of thumb, thats the finger i use to push the tobacco down lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 [quote name='Pavo21' timestamp='1357643075' post='567676'] i am not 100% sure of how much goes into a small phunnel grams wise, but i doubt its 50, because you'd only get 5 bowls outta 250, which i cant believe to be even close to true.. But i actually use my fingers unlike most tangiers people, but i prefer it. I feel like my bowls work just as fine and i also feel i can tell how much more pressure i use to push down the tobacco. [b]and as chris said its a good rule of thumb, thats the finger i use to push the tobacco down lol.[/b] [/quote] [img]http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p40/INCUBUSRATM/Funny%20pics%20and%20gifs/icwutudidthur.jpg[/img] Yeah, I use my fingers too to pack, and I don't do the foil test to check my packing job... I use the "palm test." Basically, I use my palm to see how dense it is and how level it is with the top. I feel like I can get a better feel of it rather than doing it with the foil and packing with a fork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavo21 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I don't even do a test as long as it smokes the way it's supposed to it means I did it right. Which is 100% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The short advice for packing in a Tangiers small phunnel: 1) You will pack densely. Stir the tobacco to ensure that the juice is evenly distributed in the tobacco. As you are pressing the tobacco into the bowl at the correct density be sure that you are not pressing so hard that the juice is separating out from the tobacco. You will get a more uniform pack if you pack in layers from the bottom up. 2) The top layer of tobacco should be about a quarters coin width below the outside edge of the bowl and there should be a teeny pinch of center spire above the tobacco. 3) Ren's HD foil, lots of big holes. Use holes bigger than a toothpick can make and put as many as you can. The more holes you have the less heat is trapped by the foil and less likelihood of scorching. 4) Heat Management: If you are using coconut coals you will probably have to experiment. On a small I think generally people start with 2 stonehenge style and flip them down as the need for heat increases. Be aware that it takes the bowl/tobacco about 20 minutes to reach full temperature. If you are getting amazing clouds and flavour in the first 20 minutes, there is a high risk for scorching/burning/harshness as you approach and pass the 20 minute mark. You can experiment with adjusting your heat. The first signs that your bowl is about to scorch are: increased thickness of clouds, slight change in taste, tickle in the back of your throat. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 [quote name='Pavo21' timestamp='1357647262' post='567686'] I don't even do a test as long as it smokes the way it's supposed to it means I did it right. Which is 100% of the time. [/quote] Word, me too. Once you've been doing it long enough, you can just kinda eyeball it and not really have to worry too much. I must be doing it right, cause it smokes good for me everytime. Well, almost everytime... Sometimes when the weather is shitty or something the flavor won't be as good. But that's about the only problem I've experienced here lately (past 6 months or so). [quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1357651496' post='567689'] The short advice for packing in a Tangiers small phunnel: 1) You will pack densely. Stir the tobacco to ensure that the juice is evenly distributed in the tobacco. As you are pressing the tobacco into the bowl at the correct density be sure that you are not pressing so hard that the juice is separating out from the tobacco. You will get a more uniform pack if you pack in layers from the bottom up. 2) The top layer of tobacco should be about a quarters coin width below the outside edge of the bowl and there should be a teeny pinch of center spire above the tobacco. 3) Ren's HD foil, lots of big holes. Use holes bigger than a toothpick can make and put as many as you can. The more holes you have the less heat is trapped by the foil and less likelihood of scorching. 4) Heat Management: If you are using coconut coals you will probably have to experiment. On a small I think generally people start with 2 stonehenge style and flip them down as the need for heat increases. Be aware that it takes the bowl/tobacco about 20 minutes to reach full temperature. If you are getting amazing clouds and flavour in the first 20 minutes, there is a high risk for scorching/burning/harshness as you approach and pass the 20 minute mark. You can experiment with adjusting your heat. The first signs that your bowl is about to scorch are: increased thickness of clouds, slight change in taste, tickle in the back of your throat. Hope that helps. [/quote] If I did two cocos stonehenged on my Small, I wouldn't get any smoke. I do two stonehenged on my Pico and it's perfect. Two flat on my Mini, mostly never need a windcover. Two flat on my Small with a windcover, or three flat without a windcover (have to edge them more than usual, though). It's all about finding the perfect balance of what you need to start out with and what will last you throughout your entire round of coals (not doing silly wasteful shit like lighting an extra coal just to get the bowl started or to throw on later on into the round). As for packing, I just do up to the inner spire, but right below the outer rim. This equates to the "quarter below the rim" technique you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 Alright all, thanks so much! I will give it a go on Wed. As for what I mentioned, has their cut and a few things changed? Last time I opened a tub of tang was probably, I don't know 2-3 years ago? I really don't remember the texture to be this fine, I always remembered long thick strands of tobacco and being annoyed with packing it because of how monstrous the strands were. It looks nothing like that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 [quote name='mattarios2' timestamp='1357657720' post='567704'] Alright all, thanks so much! I will give it a go on Wed. As for what I mentioned, has their cut and a few things changed? Last time I opened a tub of tang was probably, I don't know 2-3 years ago? I really don't remember the texture to be this fine, I always remembered long thick strands of tobacco and being annoyed with packing it because of how monstrous the strands were. It looks nothing like that now. [/quote] Yes, the cut has changed. I thought it was just the Birquq, but it's the Noir too. I haven't had any new Lucid lately (within the past few months). But a couple people have said he changed the cut on all the lines. Funny enough, this whole cut change thing led to me thinking the Strawberry experimental flavor sample I received was Birquq, when in fact it is Noir. I thought just the cut for Birquq was different, but was wrong. EDIT: My bad, I shouldn't say all the lines... New Burley line still has cut similar to the old Noir cut you're used to. Longer strands and such, not minced like the new cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 I feel like with the new cut it will be easier to pack and fill gaps in the bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 [quote name='mattarios2' timestamp='1357658777' post='567707'] I feel like with the new cut it will be easier to pack and fill gaps in the bowl. [/quote] I feel the same way. It allows for less "air pockets" and helps ensure proper distribution of denseness, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoozle Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 [quote name='mattarios2' timestamp='1357616605' post='567629'] 5.) 2 Questions for a refresher, my small phunnel holds 40g of mizo and 45g of OG nakhla. 5a.) What would you recommend for coals? 3 half cocos/CH? All I have is cocos or CH's at the moment. 5b.) If 40g of mizo and 45g of og nak rips perfectly in this bowl, what is a general idea for amount of tobacco to use? 50g? I know all about the tutorials and videos and everything, just want an idea of the density and would be nice to use my success w nak in that bowl for comparison. I will be doing the foil test and know it should be packed similarly to how it is in the bag when you buy it. Thanks guys! [/quote] Here's my take on packing density which may actually be helpful to you as it seems you are weighing your bowls already. Find out how many grams of water your phunnel will hold (weight of bowl filled with water - dry bowl weight). This is also how many mL your bowl holds. pack 0.8g/mL of tang and smoke away. There will be some variation among flavors but I have found this to be a good starting point. From there you will be pretty close to a 5 on the packing scale and you can adjust a few grams either way accordingly. For instance, my Mini holds 30g of water before it pours through the spire and 24g of Soursop smokes perfectly in it. I also pack up to the level of the spire, so if you pack above or below the level of the spire, you will have to adjust you capacity measurement. I have found that doing this will quickly give you a feel for what is overpacked and what is underpacked. 24g of Seville Orange in the same bowl is underpacked and 24g of Cane Mint in the same bowl is over packed. The interesting part is that 24g of Seville Orange appears to be packed less densly than 24g of Soursop and 24g of Cane Mint appears to be packed more densly than 24g of Soursop. When all 3 flavors are packed to what 24g of Soursop feels like, they all smoke perfectly. So once you learn what the correct density feels like, it applies to other flavors regardless of the actual measured density. Hopefully that all makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 Awesome skoozleI will give that a go tomorrow and see how it goes. Thanks man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavsfan31 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Hope this goes well for you man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 Thanks man, we will see tomorrow evening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoozle Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 [quote name='mattarios2' timestamp='1357679945' post='567750'] Awesome skoozleI will give that a go tomorrow and see how it goes. Thanks man! [/quote] I'm looking forward to hearing how this works out for you. I haven't been able to get many people to try this method, but if we can get a good base line of data on it, I think it will be helpful to future Tangiers smokers. People will tell you all day long to pack it dense, but that is totally subjective. The best I've heard is pack it as dense as it comes in the package, but thats tough to gauge too. EDIT: Oh yeah, I hope Tangiers is more cooperative with you than it has been in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 Thanks man, yeah I pack og nak like really tight and years ago people would say smash it down, pack it pack it pack it! So I did and I would always get like no smoke no matter how much or little coal. Then I tried medium, then light, then in between each of those, little coal, a lot of coal, I tried it all. Majority of the flavors I got smelt bad though, they never acclimated, but I figured I had to give it another go and K peach was one that seemed to acclimate reasonably well. But things have changed so maybe I will have better luck with the acclimation and smoking. K Peach for sure smells wonderful so if it sucks tomorrow it is all because of the pack lol. One thing skoozle, so I should fill the bowl until the point where it is about to overflow into the spire correct? I have a scale that measures grams and pounds/ounces so figure out the grams of water in there, convert that to mL then x by .8. And then try packing that much in the bowl and see how it goes, yeah? If this doesn't work out I will resort to trying a few methods I know about, and if that doesn't work I'll do a video chat with Coyote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoozle Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Yeah, that's what I did. I filled it up as much as I could without spilling it when I put it on the scale then slowly added water until it overflowed into the spire. Watching the weight and just noting the weight right before it spilled over. I guess it's not necessary to convert from grams of water to mL as its 1:1, but 0.8g of tangiers per gram of water seems awkward to me but g/mL is in density units. I'm a nerd. But yeah, pack 0.8g of Tangiers for every gram of water your bowl could hold. Make sure you have good contact between the tobacco and the sides of the bowl. Lots of big holes and don't over cook it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 Yup yup Will do. Update will come tomorrow evening. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 Skoozle I did the water fill up and my bowl held 49g of water before it dripped down the spire. So that would mean like 39g which is waaay waaay underpacked, any insight? just packed her up, smells wonderful, needed like 20 min of sitting out and it smells great. I will be smoking it in 3-4 hours when friends head over. In this size phunnel there is 47-48g of tobacco in it. That is how much it needed to look nice and full, only thing I am questioning is it doesn't look like a quarters width away from the outside of the bowl, or does it? Like I said I usually do 40-42g for mizo and 45g for og so keep that in mind. I have pushed it down, just kind of scooped it with a fork, dumped it in, and lightly pressed down, if I push the foil down on it or give it a little pressure I am sure I can push it down more. [IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll16/mattarios/IMG_0703_zpsd60e55b8.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll16/mattarios/IMG_0706_zps08a9779d.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll16/mattarios/IMG_0705_zps1629fce7.jpg[/IMG] man that camera focuses in the weirdest ways, sorry for that last blurry pic. Any changes before I foil it for tonight? Thanks all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 I will press some foil down on it now and see if it is a quarters width away ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 Here we go: [IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll16/mattarios/IMG_0707_zps7e5ccfc2.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll16/mattarios/IMG_0708_zpsea85b699.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll16/mattarios/IMG_0709_zpseaa06f6d.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll16/mattarios/IMG_0710_zpsea185ddf.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll16/mattarios/IMG_0711_zps559fde76.jpg[/IMG] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoozle Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 To me, that looks like it is packed a little high. I like to have an air gap between the top of my tobacco and the foil. The air gap being about the thickness of a quarter. Your second to last pic looks like the tobacco will be right up against the foil. My 0.8g/mL isn't tried and true by any means. It worked for me, and one other guy on .us found some improvement. Maybe it's different for different bowls. The spire on yours looks relatively higher than on mine and you may actually need the tobacco that high to prevent foil drag. Maybe my air gap is bigger than normal and compensating for packing less dense. If I were you, I'd throw a set of coals on it before your friends come over and see how it smokes. I think Tangiers is very intuitive but all the other brands of hookah tobacco are counter-intuitive which is why Tangiers can seem so difficult. It just goes against how you pack all other types of hookah tobacco. But if you think about it, you wouldnt want to pack a cigarette, cigar or briar pipe fluffy, you want the tobacco packed pretty tight. That's all dry tobacco, so maybe I'm just talking out of my ass. The only way to know is to smoke it. Are you familiar with the Tangiers packing scale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 Yeah it is hard to say, but 39g of tang in that bowl looked like not even close to enough. Also when I foil it, there is a gap between the tobacco and foil, it is hard to tell in the pics, but if I foil it, there is a space. tangiers packing scale? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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