HH LEMONADE: 49 PERCENT H20 - final

[azcoyote]

BTW HH doen't list water among it's ingredients on the label:"INGREDIENTS; VIRGINIA TOBACCO, HONEY, VEGETARIAN GLYCERINE, PRESERVATIVES, FLAVOR."

[DCShisha]

Some of those ingredients have water content.

[azcoyote]

[quote name='DCShisha']Some of those ingredients have water content.[/quote] We know HH at least keeps current with this forum. Why have they not deigned to respond if I am somehow off the mark. If there was a reasonable explanation, wouldn't they want to put it forth? Let's hear from them. I intend to conduct the same water experiment on the three unopened packs I will dribble out the dat like with the lemon to maximize the number of views and comments. It will be interesting to see if their water content numbers group as closely as the net weight deficits noted in my review of HH KIWI. Yes, I am beating the drums. I have no affiliation with any shisha or hookah company. I am totally unbiased regarding these products. But I welcome others to do the same and let just see how it all adds up. More tests equals more certainty.

[azcoyote]

[quote name='azcoyote'] [quote name='azcoyote']  [quote name='azcoyote']  [quote name='azcoyote']  [quote name='azcoyote']  [quote name='azcoyote']  [quote name='azcoyote'] After exactly an hour on the dash of my truck 45 g of HH lemonade lostexactly (+/- .05g) 7.89g of H20. I will update at the end of hour two. [IMG]smileys/smiley19.gif" align="middle" />[/quote] Deduct an additional 2.5 (2nd hr's evaporation) + 7.89 = 10.39/45=23-percent water content overall. Update at end of third hour to follow.[/quote] After addition 1:22 drying under same conditions sample lost another 3.03g.Aggregate water loses over 3hrs 30 min appox time: 13.42g/45= 29% water in sample. Will continue to update until I get two consecutive reading within .2g.[/quote] I left the shop yesterday around 4 pm local time. Set the pan on my desk . Arrived 8:30 this mornng and weighed sample. It had lost an addtional 4.77g of water. 13.42 + 4.77 = 18.19g./45 = 40% H2O in sample.....will update in an hour or so.Thanks everyone your interest and encouragement. Tang. I will be pleased to test a sample of your goods. To make the results totally beyond question I really should obtain all samples through normal retail channels. Maybe you can issue a merchandise credit to one of your retail distributors for this and I will pay the shipping. PM me if you'd like to get this going.To anyone out there with an unopened container and a scale, these tests should be replicated to eliminate any question of error or bias on my part. If several of us obtain very similar data we can all be confident in the results.It would be highly desireable for all reviewers perform both a wiegh in and a dry off before packing the test bowl.I'm placing the stuff back on the dashboard at 9:20 local time and will update post at 10:30 or thereabouts. [/quote] At 10:30 weighed pan and noted additonal water loss of 1.25gto recap: 18.19 + 1.25 = 19.44/45 = 43.% water. Next weigh in scheduled @ 11:40 am MST[/quote] 11:35 results:Weighed pan and noted additional water loss of 1.32 g. (it's warming up out there)to recap 19.44 + 1.32 =20.76/45 = 46% water. [/quote] 12:38 results:Weighed pan and noted additional loss of .78g20.76 + .78 = 21.54/45 = 48 percent water.[/quote] 1:40 results:Weighed pan and noted additional loss of .35g 21.45 + .35 = 21.8/45 = 48.4 percent water.

[DarthHookah]

ok, the wieght drop is starting to slow down. i think its reasonable to agree that its basically done.more importantly, what does this info mean? what happens with other brands?

[azcoyote]

Agreed. It's in for one final weight. My trend line analysis estimates it will lose .2 to .25 grams on the next weight test.

[azcoyote]

[quote name='azcoyote'] [quote name='azcoyote']  [quote name='azcoyote']  [quote name='azcoyote']  [quote name='azcoyote']  [quote name='azcoyote']  [quote name='azcoyote']  [quote name='azcoyote'] After exactly an hour on the dash of my truck 45 g of HH lemonade lostexactly (+/- .05g) 7.89g of H20. I will update at the end of hour two. [IMG]smileys/smiley19.gif" align="middle" />[/quote] Deduct an additional 2.5 (2nd hr's evaporation) + 7.89 = 10.39/45=23-percent water content overall. Update at end of third hour to follow.[/quote] After addition 1:22 drying under same conditions sample lost another 3.03g.Aggregate water loses over 3hrs 30 min appox time: 13.42g/45= 29% water in sample. Will continue to update until I get two consecutive reading within .2g.[/quote] I left the shop yesterday around 4 pm local time. Set the pan on my desk . Arrived 8:30 this mornng and weighed sample. It had lost an addtional 4.77g of water. 13.42 + 4.77 = 18.19g./45 = 40% H2O in sample.....will update in an hour or so.Thanks everyone your interest and encouragement. Tang. I will be pleased to test a sample of your goods. To make the results totally beyond question I really should obtain all samples through normal retail channels. Maybe you can issue a merchandise credit to one of your retail distributors for this and I will pay the shipping. PM me if you'd like to get this going.To anyone out there with an unopened container and a scale, these tests should be replicated to eliminate any question of error or bias on my part. If several of us obtain very similar data we can all be confident in the results.It would be highly desireable for all reviewers perform both a wiegh in and a dry off before packing the test bowl.I'm placing the stuff back on the dashboard at 9:20 local time and will update post at 10:30 or thereabouts. [/quote] At 10:30 weighed pan and noted additonal water loss of 1.25gto recap: 18.19 + 1.25 = 19.44/45 = 43.% water. Next weigh in scheduled @ 11:40 am MST[/quote] 11:35 results:Weighed pan and noted additional water loss of 1.32 g. (it's warming up out there)to recap 19.44 + 1.32 =20.76/45 = 46% water. [/quote] 12:38 results:Weighed pan and noted additional loss of .78g20.76 + .78 = 21.54/45 = 48 percent water.[/quote] 1:40 results:Weighed pan and noted additional loss of .35g 21.45 + .35 = 21.8/45 = 48.4 percent water.[/quote] 2:40 results21.8 + .20 = 22/45 = .49 Final.Guess they can still say the glass is more than half full! Except they shorted the package to begin. I received less than half what I paid for. What goes around comes around. Time to try some.

[dikydave]

what would HH gain from responding to the warped science of a lunatic? you can say all you want, but if you are saying "dont buy HH because of the way they make and package their shisha" then you have already taken a stance far beyond the water content* of the brand. no matter how u feel, the way they package it, water and all, must have an effect on the smoke and from what i've noticed it is mostly positive.

[azcoyote]

[quote name='dikydave']what would HH gain from responding to the warped science of a lunatic?  you can say all you want, but if you are saying "dont buy HH because of the way they make and package their shisha" then you have already taken a stance far beyond the  water content* of the brand.  no matter how u feel, the way they package it, water and all, must have an effect on the smoke and from what i've noticed it is mostly positive.[/quote] You are way out of line calling me a lunatic. As for my my science being warped, I'll let others here comment on the validiy of my findings.

[DizzyGuy]

How did it smoke??

[azcoyote]

[quote name='DizzyGuy']How did it smoke??[/quote] I am ten minutes into the smoking part of my review. 3:05 pm Placed 4 grams of HH Lemon standard glazed bowl with screen and 2 pieces of finger coals.3:06 Instant clouds from second pull. No blowing on charcoal was done. Very nice flavor. Sweet and tart, Lemony with a slight bitterness I find pleasant. Akin to bitter lemon soda.3:10Tons of flavor and good smoke. Much thicker and faster than the KIWI I took straight from the container. 3:22 Still smoking great. Flavor fresh and stable. So far so good. Can't say anything bad about the flavor. Will update when it's done.3:35coals out. Shisa looks like burnt toast. will add another coal to make sure I get it all.3:40Good thick clouds immediately after setting new coal. Some of lemon flavor is fading but still there. Enjoyable.3:45Nice mild BUZZ coming on. Smoke is slightly thinner out but still decent.3:48Just a hint of lemon flavor now. Medium clouds.3:53 Nothing left .Summary: A pleasant smoke once water is removed. Total smoke time 48 minutes.

[Sonthert]

The trend line should be logarithmic...differentiate it with respect to the independent variable, set it=0 and solve. That will give you the exact weight of water. Diky, I think AZ is probably going to calculate other brands as well, I don't think he is picking on HH.

[Lakemonster]

Ok..... heres a something I was wondering.Does glycerin evaporate in open air conditions?

[azcoyote]

[quote name='Lakemonster']Ok..... heres a something I was wondering.  Does glycerin evaporate in open air conditions?[/quote] Not according to Kings American Dispensatory.Here's the relevant excerpt:Glycerin is slowly volatilized from an aqueous solution, at or above 100° C. (212° F.), with the vapor of water. Heated by itself to a higher temperature, it yields acrid decomposition products, boils at a temperature at or above 165° C. (329° F.), and is finally entirely decomposed and dissipated"—(U. S. P.). The exceedingly irritating decomposition products are chiefly due to the formation of acrolein (allyl aldehyde, C2H3.CHO), which is also formed when fats are burned, or when glycerin is heated with strong sulphuric acid. Yet Prof. Trimble has demonstrated (Amer. Jour. Pharm., 1885, p. 275) the propriety of the use of the vapors of pure glycerin for inhalations, the details being as follows: When 50 grammes of pure glycerin were slowly heated in an open capsule, vaporization became abundant at 130° C. (266° F.). At 264° C. (497.2° F.), slight boiling was perceptible, but very little was left, and the dense vapors formed had a purely sweet taste, absolutely free from any irritating quality. Pure glycerin, when heated to 150° C. (302° F.) in an open crucible, can be ignited, and burns with a blue flame. Glycerin of only 90 per cent can be burned with the aid of a wick, like alcohol, in a spirit lamp

[Evil_Spork]

[quote name='azcoyote']Evil -That's an interesting question. Why don't you take 10 grams of totally dessicated tobacco ("Top" cigarette tobacco is Virgina like HH) and see how much water it will absorb before puddles form. I look forward to hearing the results of your investigation. Until I hear otherwise if I am standing by my findings[/quote] ill use some rolling cigar tabacco, and some misc shisha i have.i also have a really sensetive scale similar to what it looks like youre using.

[SanguineSolitude]

stick the tobacco in the oven on warm for like an hour (maybe less dont burn it).

[Evil_Spork]

i wonder how rolling tabacco would smoke in a hookah... it is totally dry.i might even try soaking some in honey and trying to smoke that for kicks.once i get my alwaha mixed flavor pack from the deal on the forums ill sacrifice some and do a similar weight vs time expiriment.also i could get a few cigarettes and use that tabacco to absorb X amount of water, and maybe try the same with cigar rolling tabacco just to have more information. i figure if i have the scale, i might as well use it. *shrug*any specific tests anyone wants me to try?

[Buford]

Doesn't glycerin attract water to itself, or is it not an anhydrous variety that's used in shisha?

[SanguineSolitude]

look further up the thread buford

[Sonthert]

Well, just for giggles, I decided to try my own tobacco and see what was going on with this moisture issue. I selected mint, since mint has a volatile flavor, an ethanol base (which would be the same as expected as lemonade flavors). The flavoring is very potent, so it would more truely represent how much water is left on the tobacco. I started with 66g of tobacco in a polypropylene tub (which will evolve no water on heating). I conducted the experiment on the middle shelf of an oven set at 175F. I laid the plastic tray on a metal broiler pan to give it support since polypropylene gets soft at 175F. I laid a towel on my most expensive scale and tared it. I weighed an identical tub to the test tub (29.4g +/-.2g, since they can vary by .2g). I then started the test taking measurements more frequently, then spacing them out asthe evolution of volatiles decreased, doing about two each episoide of Seinfeld. Initially, the amount of tobacco was 66g +/-1g. The final amount of net material (formerly tobacco) was 58.4g +/-.4g. This corresponds to a 7.6g +/-.4g loss. Upon doing the calculations, the fit projected that the amount of volatiles in the tobacco would be 7.2g +/-.6g. The numbers seemed flipped, but they lie within the error bars, so based on the fit, Tangiers Tobacco contains 10.9% volatile materials, including water. Caro is right, there are other volatile materials other than water in tobacco, I think its safe to say that consists of about 11% +/-1%...the other 35% or so in the HH Lemonade...seems odd. Just for the record, I predicted, secretly at the lab, the volatile content was going to be 10-15%. Pretty good guess. Glycerine has a negligible vapor pressure at normal atmospheric pressure and normal temps. That is, it doesn't evaporate...thats why it is practically odorless itself. I leave tiny puddles of glycerine on top of the 55 gallon drum and they don't dry up...I've left puddles there for a couple weeks on end (out of curiosity...not slopiness!) and they never moved or changed. Like I said, other brands have alot more residual water than Tangiers...I can't explain why. Thats why they take longer to heat up.

[azcoyote]

Good to hear your report. I was just curious about a couple things. After I dried out my HH sample I smoked and reviewed the experience. I don't know if lemon is more or less volitile than mint. But there was plenty of flavor left when I smoked it. Really juicy! More would have been too much for my taste, which tend to favor strong flavors. I even like anise now and then. But only with Turkish coffeee.If the sample still has a mint aroma, it might still smoke very well.

[Sonthert]

Lemon is more volatile than mint.