STOLEN MATERIAL!!!

[HookahCulture]

Bottom line......
Between the retailers and me, WE LINK TO EACHOTHER, not steal eachother's material!
This is common courtesy, why do my toes have to be stepped on here?

[NERV]

0H N0S!!! YU0R C0NTENT HAEV BEEN ST0ELED!!!!11

ANYWAY have you tried contacting them about it?

[HookahCulture]

Yeah I called hookahhookah.com AND Sahara Smoke and gave them an earful.



The proper thing to do is for them to LINK TO ME, and I promote them, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.....



NOT for them to steal my content!



Someone higher up is supposed to get back to me Thursday.

HookahHookah.com also has the BBB Online insignia.

The site has already violated the principles!



Principle I: Truthful and Accurate Communications.
[url="http://www.bbbonline.org/reliability/code/principle1.asp"]http://www.bbbonline.org/reliability/code/.../principle1.asp[/url]

*create the false impression that the content, merchandise or service of another’s business is their own.



I wouldn't mind linking to them since they have some nice bases, but all my stolen content should be REMOVED FROM THAT SITE.

[HookahCulture]

UPDATE:

Some underling woman is trying sell me my own work.

I'm waiting for the site owner to call me man to man, instead of hiding behind a woman.

 THE GALL. 

 

[Chaos]

I sent em a message, Im one of the people that have submited locations to you and i dont feel its right that they ripped your site but eh all hookah sites have the same tips and tricks page it was just a matter of time...

[alen]

hi H.C i send them a mail to and i also asked about their own tobacco and its seems that its made in U.S (can it be same as sultan or splash ?)well since i am the one that says buy and try it seems like i have to buy a jar to find outbut if sombody knows anything about this new brand please let me know
take care

[Mr. Scratch]

Very annoying.  I've had the same thing happen to me, having labored long to write out a sales pitch, and then have someone come along and steal my material to sell their own crap.  In any case, here was my message to them.
"I'm disappointed that you find it necessary to steal so much of your written material on this site from other hookah websites.  Those people who originally created this material put a lot of work into researching and developing this information, and they did expend all that energy for the sake of you stealing it to sell your own products.  It does not demonstrate good business ethics to go around using the intellectual property of others without asking their permission or giving them credit for it's creation."
"Word is getting around pretty quickly among hookah users about this act, on hookahforum.com.  You are generating some pretty negative publicity among your target consumer base, and you've barely even left the starting line with your business.  If you plan to succeed in this business, I might suggest you make some corrections, and start treating the rest of the hookah community with the respect it deserves."

[Mr. Scratch]

[quote name='WHO CARES']It's not that serious.....GET OVER IT!!!  I thought that stuff like directories were public domain.  I don't think that you should be pissed at them about that. [/quote]
 
You might have thought that directories were public domain, but that is because you are a retard.  Just because the public is allowed to access the material, it doesn't mean they have a right to copy it and use it to promote their own business.  The rights of just about any private text belong to the author.  Spend 5 minutes actually looking up copyright law instead of pulling assumptions out of your ass, and you'd know that.
"It's not that serious" to you because you didn't write the sh*t.  Stealing often doesn't seem like a big deal to some people when it isn't their hard work getting stolen.  So long as it is someone else getting ripped off, who cares! 

[ApoC]

damn, thats a lot of hard work stolen (stealing isnt very hard either, thats why its so damn lame). hope he gets it good! 

[MR Bubble]

[quote name='WHO CARES']It's not that serious.....GET OVER IT!!!  I thought that stufflike directories were public domain.  I don't think that youshould be pissed at them about that.  As a matter of fact thankyou for hooking me up with that web address...THEIR HOOKAHS ROCK!!!  [/quote] I've got news for you, "guest." You found this forum by mistake. It was all an unfortunate accident. We all (or most of us) here are like brothers. We take care of one another. We are a family. Everyone is allowed the right to their opinion, but when you are a guest in "our house," you would do better to learn how to opine in a more tactful way. Obviously, you have never accomplished anything, or worked hard making the attempt to, otherwise you would understand someone's frustration when they have been the target of another's disregard of any morals. Please understand that our open door remains open for anyone who wants to stop by and "get to know the family." Please don't let the gate hit you in the butt on your way out.

[E.G.]

[quote name='MR Bubble']I've got news for you, "guest." You found this forum by mistake. It was all an unfortunate accident.... etc.[/quote]
[img]http://www.hookahforum.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif[/img][img]http://www.hookahforum.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif[/img][img]http://www.hookahforum.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif[/img][img]http://www.hookahforum.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif[/img][img]http://www.hookahforum.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif[/img][img]http://www.hookahforum.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif[/img][img]http://www.hookahforum.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif[/img][img]http://www.hookahforum.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif[/img][img]http://www.hookahforum.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif[/img][img]http://www.hookahforum.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif[/img]
Well put, Mr. B, very well put indeed!
E.G.

[Miss_HooKah_2004]

I have ordered from Sahara Smoke Co. a few times and I have been very
satisifed with their services.  Their customer service department
was very nice and I also received my order on time.  As far as any
other online hookah store I haven't had any experience with them
because I'm more than satisfied with Sahara Smoke. 

[HookahCulture]

Thank you all for your support in this matter which is very important to me.
It's true, this directory I made was a LOT of work and was snagged
without the slightest thought of asking or linking or ANYTHING.

The fact that this happened shouts clearly the level of ethics of this company.

I think that two of the posts here were WEAK ATTEMPTS at propaganda
planted by the offending party. Notice the join date of Miss
Hookah.  GIMME A BREAK.
(The guest THOUGHT WRONG.)

Thank you all again, and please post on their site your feelings of
their BLATANT THEFT from a well-meaning brother of the industry. Tell
your friends to do the same.

HookahCulture.com is the proud host of the ONE AND ONLY ORIGINAL
hookah lounge/bar/cafe directory and is the WORLD'S LARGEST! 
All others who copy this directory for their site are SHAMEFULLY FALSE and are WITHOUT HONOR!

[Roketsloth]

I'm in no way affiliated with sahara smoke and i still find your argument weak.
You never answered my questions about what exactly they ripped off from you...and why you can't solve business complaints with a woman.

[Kofod]

Im not the one to answer, but I would still comment.
The question about "ripped of" is hence that copyrights of hookahculture and others are violated - this by taking their material. Thats really not up for any oppinion or what this or that person or even you thinks if its something to fuzz about or not. Its a fact.
1. A "full work" automatically becomes the property of the creator. ("full work" like in a work by shakespeare - "full" as in of an extend and originality - I dont know the english//american law term for this, but the principles of copyright law is the same all over the modern world)
2. A "full work" has to be of a certain extend and originality to be accepted as a "full work" in a court. This is the only uncertainty ("full work" status or not) in this matter (it often is in these legal disputes). But the fact that the copyright violator has tried to sell the "work" (it becomes a product) proves that it is a "full work" and that the violator is aware of this fact.
3. The fact that lot of people can testify that this "work" existed at hooakcultures page before proves that the content was copied by the violator.
4. The work and the copied work is of identical appearences -> the copied work is not a new work.
These four points are the things that a is needed to make a legal conclusion on this and the same things as a court would rule from. Nothing more nothing less.
So no its not up to yours or mine oppinion wether or not there was a rip of or not - its a fact.
The "man/woman" question: I dont think that hookahculture means its a "sex-thing" rather more a boss(man) hiding behind the secretary(woman).

[HookahCulture]

Roketsloth:
They stole my material. If I wouldn't have confronted them, they would've kept the exact copy and paste that they did from my site! They copied my comments and EVERYTHING, but now it's just the address list. I made it for everyone to read, not for someone to STEAL.
Instead of working with me and letting me promote them, they just snagged everything. I linked to them from DAY ONE, and this is how they repay me? Everyone knows that the Directory is MY GIG. There is brotherhood and respect in this industry, but Sahara Smoke decided to ignore it. THEIR LOSS.
Asking to speak MAN TO MAN on an issue like this is no large request, and the man who hides HAS NO HONOR. In fact in many countries it is the EXPECTED NORM, and I expect those involved in Arab culture to follow that INHERENT norm.
 

[Roketsloth]

egh, well you should have specified that it was hookahhookah.com and not saharasmoke.com.  I realize that they're affiliated companies, but it just creates confusion.
I realize that they ripped information from your site without giving you credit.  They should have given you credit...although the information you've compiled is in the public domain...not taking into account the comments, which they were right to delete.  Heh and from their posts, I think it's obvious they don't give a sh*t.  The fact that they came and posted on here...especially that first post...is telling.  They're an american company taking the arab tradition and making their own thing out of it.  As such, I'm sure that a woman who works in the company feels (as i do) that she is just as equal as a man...and doesn't understand your request to speak to someone "man to man".  It's ridiculous.  Other people have suggested it was a secretary which is wonderfully stereotypical and is not the story that you seem to be telling...but if that's the case, then I understand.
I don't want to be a dick.  I think the information you have on your site is cool...and you've obviously put forth a lot of effort to keep it up.  Though I think your etiquette section is kind of insulting and pretentious...but again it's just my opinion.
So don't get me wrong, I see where you're coming from.  But in the end, it's not going to stop me from buying their product.

[Kofod]

[quote name='Roketsloth'] 
although the information you've compiled is in the public domain[/quote]
Excuse me? Public domain?
Its just as much public domain as the Washington post online, CNN or the add for the latest pixar movie.
If you think that public acces and the ability to copy paste something gives you the right to take it and use it as your own by gibbering about "public domain" then you're all wrong.
And no "giving credit" doesnt excuse you either.

[HookahCulture]

Hmmm interesting comment on the pretentiousness of the etiquette
section, but you must realize that if the popularity of the pasttime is
to endure in a meaningful way,  ignorant trendite kooks have to be
stopped and educated.

Smoking a shisha is cool, but one must know the true reasons WHY.



Maybe I'll read it over and tone it down, but those in the know laugh and know EXACTLY what I'm talking about in that section.



Movies are open to the public. Are they public domain to legally steal and redistribute by someone unlicensed by the owner?



What if you are GIVEN a paperback book?

If you got it for free, and everyone is familiar with the story, and you reprint it with your name on it?

"Gee this seems an awful lot like a storyline lifted from Tom Sawyer. Look, even the EVENTS are in the same order."

[HookahCulture]

[quote name='Roketsloth']egh, well you should have specified that it was
hookahhookah.com and not saharasmoke.com.  I realize that they're
affiliated companies, but it just creates confusion.[/quote]

 -- I did so on the very first post.

[Roketsloth]

ha, i don't see how you can actually believe these are comparable arguments. 
Welcome to the world of copyright laws.  CNN, the washington post, MOVIES, BOOKS....these are copyrighted media with ORIGINAL INFORMATION...ofcourse it's plagarism and copyright infringement to use their work as your own.  A compiled list of addresses....and links to articles...is A) not copyrighted by hookahculture, i assume...and even if it were, it's basic stastical information.  You compiled it, but you don't own the information.
I'm not saying they're not taking advantage of you.  I'm just saying you don't own the information.
As for the etiquette section, thanks for listening.  No one likes dumbasses with no knowledge or appreciation for something you enjoy other than to be trendy f**king it up...but that's what happens with popularity.  Look at punk music.  On the other hand, to keep the impression that something is "cooler than thou" is the defintion of pretention.
Oh, and for the record.  ICP blows.

[Kofod]

[quote name='Roketsloth']ha, i don't see how you can actually believe these are comparable arguments. [/quote]
I dont know how you dream up your own laws and rules.
[quote name='Roketsloth']Welcome to the world of copyright laws.[/quote]
Thanks but I'm quite aware of the world of copyright laws - I do patent and informations rights protection work in connection of my profession, I'm only engineer but I can ask one of the corporate lawyers if nescessary on this simple question - but I'm not about to take conclusions from someone that comes up with the rules from what they think themselfes.
[quote name='Roketsloth']CNN, the washington post, MOVIES, BOOKS....these are copyrighted media with ORIGINAL INFORMATION[/quote]
Hookahcultures work is copyrighted to - it comes automically by being the author. CNN is not more copyrighted than hookahculture.
The very post in here are also with copyrights of the respective authors if the text is of a certain extend and originality to be recognised as a "full work".
A listing and gathering of information is a an original information.
[quote name='Roketsloth']A compiled list of addresses....and links to articles...is A) not copyrighted by hookahculture, i assume...[/quote]
Copyrightis not something that hookahculture or anybody do or take - its something you HAVE (if you dont pass it on) - this is elementary in the world of copyright laws that you think you can "welcome" others to.
Theres not a big book in a court somewhere saying which texts have copyrights or not. CNN - copyrighted - and "no listing on hookahculture.com"
[quote name='Roketsloth']  even if it were, it's basic stastical information.  You compiled it, but you don't own the information.[/quote]
Ever wondered if you could copy the phonebook and publish it as your own? Think you can run your own copy of yellowpages.com and just pass the owners that inane argument if they complain?
Its al compiled info gathered from open sources. But no - you can not republish the phonebook and offcourse a listing can have "full work" status.
I dont know what your intention with "statistical" info was - but a lot of statistical info and listing have copyrights, often at very high values. Election polls - market figures of any sort - the quarterly unemployment numbers etc.

[Roketsloth]

[b][color="#000000"]WHAT IS NOT PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT?[/color]
Several categories of material are generally not eligible for federal copyright protection. These include among others:


Works that have not been fixed in a tangible form of expression (for example, choreographic works that have not been notated or recorded, or improvisational speeches or performances that have not been written or recorded)

Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents

Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles, discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a description, explanation, or illustration

[b]Works consisting entirely of information that is common property and containing no original authorship (for example: standard calendars, height and weight charts, tape measures and rulers, and lists or tables taken from public documents or other common sources)[/b]
I got this information from the U.S. goverment copyright office's online website: [url="http://www.copyright.gov/"]http://www.copyright.gov/
In the case of The Feist Publications vs.  Rural Telephone Service in 1991, the U.S.  Supreme Court issued an important ruling affecting those who compile information and make it available to the public, electronically or otherwise. The Court ruled that the telephone white pages could not be protected by copyright law because they contained no "original expression."  The Court rejected the "industrious collection" or "sweat-of-the-brow" theory of originality that lower courts had been using for decades to uphold copyright claims in telephone books and similar fact compilations.  Only if there is some creativity in the selection or arrangement of the facts, can their compilation be protected by copyright law.  The facts themselves, the Court ruled, could be copied at will, even by one who was preparing a competing compilation.  This was said to be consistent with the constitutional purposes underlying copyright law. 
You can waste more of your time (like i have) reading about this sh*t here: [url="http://www.ifla.org/documents/infopol/copyright/samp2.txt "]http://www.ifla.org/documents/infopol/copy....copyright.gov/[/url]://http://www.copyright.gov/
In the c...yright.gov/[/url]
In the c...samp2.txt ://http://www.copyright.gov/
In the c...samp2.txt ://http://www.copyright.gov/
In the c...samp2.txt 
Or go ask your lawyer friend if you really want to be a lameass. 
I don't make up my own copyright laws...law is highly arguable...and your sarcastic picking apart of my post was...retarded, especially coming from someone who is "quite aware of the world of copyright laws".  When I spoke about movies, books, etc. having copyrights...I was talking about secured copyrights...i.e. being put in a book somewhere.  In fact, you can't even sue over copyright infringement unless you have a registered copyright for the work if it's of U.S. origin (http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#cr://http://www.ifla.org/documents/infop...s/circ1.html#cr). 
But hookahculture should have been doing this research himself, and I'm sick of arguing about whether or not he has a right to be pissed off about this situation.  So you can stop giving me sh*t and trying to defend him, I already said i empathized with him even if he has no legal grounds.
 
 

[Kofod]

Law at this point is not highly arguable - copyrights come with the creation of a work - and you have stated otherwise - this is not argueable.
Your thing about secured copyrights doesnt make any difference between a movie or a text on a webpage. Copyrights is holded by the originator at the time the text is created. "Secured" or not. If pixar forgot to register/secure their new movie, or CNN or anyother you would still not be allowed to copy it.
My picking apart your post was to adress all the wrong points in the post one by one.
If you know the details of that very known verdict you know that there is a difference between the white and yellow pages. With whitepages people have been obliged to hand in their info. Yellowpages consists of info collected by the part making the list. Though equally laborious, this is makes a difference between where the "originallity" comes from. Every listing in the yellow pages is a result of a work and info that is created/collected by the author. Every listing in the whitepages are handed in by the phoneowner. So its not due to a difference in the list as a whole but every single entry in the list - The nature of the entries makes a difference.
Your entry is original if it required an intellectual work to find/produce it. From yellowpages (little intellectual work) to statistical data (lot of intellectual work) or tables over scientific parameters (which I am "securing" right now in my current work)
If only a laborious work, not original. This is why the whitepages are not copyrighted and yellowpages are. There is no intellectual work behind the entries whilst there is when producing statistical data, scientific data and finding adresses on hookahbars - this is also an intellectual work not only laborious like the whitepages.
I don't have a lawyer friend - I have lawyer colleques. Which I work with on these matters all day - this is basics, thats why I would'nt ask, not that I would get another answer than expected.

[Roketsloth]

egh, jesus christ.  I never said that copyright comes from somewhere other than "the creation of a work"...I said secured copyrights do...and if hookahculture wants to take legal action he has to get a SECURED COPYRIGHT, based on the US government's copyright policies. 
If you think copyright law is not arguable then...i don't know what to tell you, you're an idiot.  Battles are fought over this sh*t every day, but not usually over something so pathetically ridiculous as 30 or so hookah bar addresses.  I'd love to see this play out in a court rather than an internet forum...and between the actual parties involved...not you and me (who doesn't give a sh*t).