STOLEN MATERIAL!!!

[Kofod]

[quote name='Roketsloth']egh, jesus christ.  I never said that copyright comes from somewhere other than "the creation of a work"...I said secured copyrights do...and if hookahculture wants to take legal action he has to get a SECURED COPYRIGHT, based on the US government's copyright policies.   [/quote]
You dont have to secure copyrights in order to have rights to your intellectual work it comes automatically when you create something - a securing is a registration of your work to make your claims in legal dispute easier to prove if it should occur but doesnt offer a higher degree of protection. Your intellectual work is copyrighted at creation, secured or not.
[quote name='Roketsloth']If you think copyright law is not arguable then...i don't know what to tell you, you're an idiot.  Battles are fought over this sh*t every day, but not usually over something so pathetically ridiculous as 30 or so hookah bar addresses.  I'd love to see this play out in a court rather than an internet forum...and between the actual parties involved...not you and me (who doesn't give a sh*t).[/quote]
I have not said copyright law is not arguable. I said that this point of copyright law was not argueable - not copyright in general.
An author has the right over his intellectual products and automatically holds the copyrights of these without having to do any effort to secure these. This is not arguable.
If you have trouble reading and understanding the meaning of the posts I think you should hold back on your use of "you are an idiot" and "lame ass" etc. These words are not common for the general tone in here either.

[alen]

give up friends-what its all about is good manners

[Kofod]

Yes - good manners first and foremost - but I hold my right to respectfully disagree on somethings and discuss these issues in a good tone and manner.

[alen]

hope you got me right my friend-what i mean is that even if its legal or not you just dont take another mans work-that what was i mean whith bad manners

[alen]

ill get back under ny blanket againi will not inerfear anymore keep up the good woorkcya

[HookahCulture]

YEAH!
Good manners means NOT STEALING from others!

The fact remains that the information WAS NOT A COMMON SOURCE until I made it available!

"Works consisting entirely of information that is common property and
containing no original authorship (for example: standard calendars,
height and weight charts, tape measures and rulers, and lists or tables
taken from public documents or other common sources)"

I AM THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR.
No one else could come up with all the information that was stolen from
me if they  tried, a lot of it was given to me and it was NOT
AVAILABLE FROM ANY OTHER SOURCE, not even the fuc|<ing PHONE BOOK!
I DEFY YOU TO FIND A DUPICATE SOURCE THAT WASN'T STOLEN FROM ME!

You FIND the "common source" where you can everything all at once in
one fell swoop, and I will shut the hell up. I didn't get it all from
the ruler in my desk drawer or a metric conversion table.

Besides which now I think Roketsloth took the Sahara Smoke defense
because he's a friend, and we exposed the first weak-ass group. Signed
up Nov. 21st and jumped right in, how convenient.
"We've been exposed and busted. We need someone else to argue back."

Anyone can PLAINLY SEE that this theft is completely unethical if not illegal.
Sahara Smoke obviously has NO RESPECT for the industry or of the service I provide.

They even ADMITTED to me that it was lifted, and also everyone saw the
word for word copy and paste. It's not like they lifted it and are
DENYING they lifted it.
Read my comment about the book.

This isn't over.

[HookahCulture]

"An author has the right over his intellectual products and
automatically holds the copyrights of these without having to do any
effort to secure these. This is not arguable."

THANK YOU KOFOD!
Sometimes it takes a swift common fact to show people, but still they
will say the sky is yellow and argue that to the death with a smile on
their faces.
Yeah go ahead and smile as I shovel dirt on your face.

(This is STILL not over.)

[HookahCulture]

So just because I DON'T SAY SO, Sahara's rules are law?
CAN YOU SAY......HYPOCRITE?

Am I not entitled to this same protection?

This is taken from Sahara Smoke:

"LIMITED LICENSE

Sahara Smoke Co. Web Site and all of its “Materials”, including, but
not limited to, its software or HTML code, scripts, text, artwork,
photographs, and images are protected by copyright laws and other U.S. and international laws and treaties. All Materials are provided by Sahara Smoke Co. as a service to its current and prospective customers and may be used only for personal informational
and product ordering purposes and only if you also retain all copyright
and other proprietary notices contained on the Materials. No right,
title or interest in our Materials is conveyed to you This is a limited
license, not a transfer of title to our Materials, and such license is
subject to the following restrictions: (a) you may not copy,
reproduce, publish, transmit, distribute, perform, display, post,
modify, create derivative works from, sell, license or otherwise
exploit this site or any of its Materials without our prior written
permission; ( you may not access or use the Sahara Smoke Co. Web Site for any competitive or commercial purpose; and © you will not permit any copying of our Materials. Any
unauthorized copying, alteration, distribution, transmission,
performance, display, or other use of these Materials is prohibited.
Sahara Smoke Co. may revoke this limited license at any time for any or
no reason. All rights not expressly granted are reserved by Sahara
Smoke Co."

What say you to that???

[Kofod]

Well yes as I said before - the legal rights a copyright protection is not altered by the fact that it is secured or not. Your legal standing is the same.
The same thing goes for a limited license warning - an author has the same right to the ownership of his work regardsless of what kind of text the author has provided to inform possible violators of their restricted right of use. The legal standing is still the same.
So its not ok to steal copyrighted material just because you where not informed not to.
A similar text on your page hookahculture would just have been a service to your readers but not under any circumstance put you or a possible violator in another legal protection.
That much I remember from my business law courses.

[Highpockets]

Pretty sure Kofod's right. Those disclaimers are usually just to scare people away from pursuing litigation. A lot of the provisions are often void per se.
But I'm still trudging through law school myself so I have very little practical knowledge at the moment.

[Mr. Scratch]

[quote name='Roketsloth']So don't get me wrong, I see where you're coming from.  But in the end, it's not going to stop me from buying their product.[/quote]
Of course you will.  You are one of those people who has no sense of ethics, and so you don't demand that those you deal with have them either.  You are probably one of those people who would buy a stolen car stereo if it saved you a few bucks.  You don't care that someone else suffered for it, and that by giving money to the tehives you support the continual victimization of other people.  Just as long as it isn't you that gets ripped off, so what, right?
What it indicates is a lack of ethics on your part, and an unwillingness to uphold your end of the social contract against theft.  Whatever.  What is more important is that for every person like you on this board, there are loads of other hookahphiles who do have a sense of right/wrong, and will not participate in allowing the hookah market to be dragged through the mud by plagerists and rip-off artists. 
Frankly, I think hookahhookah.com has made an extremely poor business decision by stealing hookahculture's (and others) material.  Sure, they'll still get a few bottom-of-the-barrel customers who don't care if they deal with theives or not.  But they've sacrificed a lot of serious and more experienced customers in the process.  And for what?  So they can post some material on their site that most of their customers already know about anyway?  Sheesh, where is the profit in that?  With that poor of business sense, I think they deserve to get ruined.
 

[Roketsloth]

Wow.
You know what?  Just because I disagree with you, does not make me affiliated with the company that you're having problems with.  As I said in my first post, I've been smoking hookahs for 6 monthes and am looking to buy one. I liked their product, and wanted some opinions on the company.  Your paranoid lameass would find it oh so convenient if I were associated with them.  The whole idea of being mad because someone stole some addresses that you researched just seems a bit retarded...and please don't go off about how it's YOUR work and YOU'VE researched it...i've heard it.  I've said repeatedly that I think that they took advantage of you, but your constant bitching and accusations have made me lose all sympathy for you.  The fact that you think the company would send me on here to defend them is pathetic.  "We've been exposed and busted.  We need someone else to argue back." That really is hilarious.  Do you picture executives in a boardroom having this conversation?  How many people actively look at this forum?  If you think that the nexus of the hookah market is on this website, you're all kidding yourselves.  They have the best looking site online, they're catering to a bigger market, and now they have your information so people don't have to leave their site to find it (why i'm sure they never linked to you in the first place).  This forum does not dictate the hookah industry...and if you think that word of mouth is going to affect their business...
"Yeah I'm going to buy from saharasmoke.com"
"No dude!  Don't buy from them...they stole some addresses from some dude's website."
...right.
I'm sure this post will just encourage your fantasy that i'm associated with that company...but i can assure you i'm not.  I just live in reality.  (this is going to make a great quote for you to barrage me with later)
Oh and Mr. Scratch.  Eat my cock.  That was completely unnecessary, you have no idea who i am nor what i believe.  Get over yourselves.

[slicerd]

I'm still amazed at how cynical you are about this entire thing Roketsloth.  From the beggining you have commented on how trivial a deal this entire thing is.  While maybe for you it doesnt seem like much but for HookahCulture it is a big deal.  He has a taken time effort and money to create a community resource that helps out everybody and somebody else has just come a long a ripped it off. I'm quite sure that if he were to sue he would win without a problem.  But who really has the time and money to do that he doesnt make money off of his site so it would be far to costly for him to sue.
I dont even know if you have looked at HookahCultures site have you even seen how much info is there?  I for one would be pissed if someone stole that much info from me.
Also i think this board is a much bigger deal than you give it credit for it is one of the few and definitally the largest Hookah board on the net and I'm sure many people have looked through the posts asking about what to buy and who to buy from, I know I did.  I asked questions and a lot of memebers were nice enough to respond with good suggestions.  I feel indebted to the help of these people and so if somebody has a bad experience with a company I take it to heart.  As many have said this shows poorly for the ethics of the company and I can only imagine it will be reflected in their biz dealings.  And you knowing full well what they have done and how little they seem to care, you decide to buy from them anyway.  This does show your character and I'm sure if you started a web company you too would have little compunction about stealling other reasources without their concent.  This is why your have rubbed so many people the wrong way and it is why some think you even work or are in with the company.  I personally think you are just a person that doesnt care about the ethics in question here and will continue to do what you want no matter who's toes are stepped on.

[entrailsgalore]

[quote name='Kofod']Law at this point is not highly arguable - copyrights
come with the creation of a work - and you have stated otherwise - this
is not argueable.
Your thing about secured copyrights doesnt make any difference
between a movie or a text on a webpage. Copyrights is holded by the
originator at the time the text is created. "Secured" or not. If pixar
forgot to register/secure their new movie, or CNN or anyother you would
still not be allowed to copy it.[/quote]  Thats what I
thoguht. Im not a law student but I do use google alot and as far as I
udnerstand, the original author if web matreial, movie script,
etc  has full rights to what happens and what doesnt happen to the
material. If I build a webpage or write a term paper for college
english, those materials belong to me. No one would be allowed to use
it for anything without my permission or unless I handed the rights of
that material to them.

Kofod I have a question, Im not a law major or anything so I wanted your oppinion on something.

I own every single homework assignment I ever written for school. They
are my property. If anyone used my homework assignment as their own
without my permission wouldnt I be obliged to take legal action against
them? Besides it being plagirism, they are taking my work and using it
as their own. I didnt copyright my homework or register it, would they
be able to use my work as their own?

[Roketsloth]

"I'm sure if you started a web company you too would have little compunction about stealling other reasources without their concent."
You're sure are you? You know while we're making bullsh*t inferences...here's one.  You're a douchebag. 
You think I work for a company...because I will still buy from them after they took some addresses from someone's website?  You all think this is a HUGE DEAL...because this dude is your friend.  I don't know him...I don't feel any need to defend him...THOUGH I HAVE SAID REPEATEDLY THAT I EMPATHIZE WITH HIM.  I wasn't taking anyone's side until I saw how ridiculous everyone here is about the whole incident.  I think this company has really never thought twice about this incident...while you guys act like your house has been robbed.  I also think hookahculture has been pretty cool with me about the whole thing...until he came to the retarded conclusion that i must work for the company because i'm not licking his asshole.  I do not have some sort of responsibility to agree with you.  I'm going to buy from the company...because I want to see how they do business with costumers.  They are the only site that has the hookah that i want.  I would really rather quit this bullsh*t and talk about something more interesting.
As for my language...sorry, I'm blunt. But atleast i'm not making lame accusations, telling you your moral/ethical beliefs, or predicting your actions. 

[slicerd]

[quote name='Roketsloth']You're sure are you? You know while we're making bullsh*t inferences...here's one.  You're a douchebag. [/quote]
What makes me more of a douchbag the fact that I dont like seeing good peoples work stolen or that I can express my reasoning in a well though out manner?

[Kofod]

[quote name='entrailsgalore']I own every single homework assignment I ever written for school. They are my property. If anyone used my homework assignment as their own without my permission wouldnt I be obliged to take legal action against them? Besides it being plagirism, they are taking my work and using it as their own. I didnt copyright my homework or register it, would they be able to use my work as their own?[/quote]
That is right - copyrights belong to you for the intellectual products you have made in school - by handing in work you automatically give some rights to school though - nothing particular - just the right to read comment and archive the text and things like that.
Some homework will offcourse not have and extend and originallity to reach status as a full work - multiple-choice crossout etc.
This is the legal princips. If you would take legal actions in pracis is another matter. Depends on what you can get out of it and what you wanna do to uphold your rights on that particular text.
But lot of academic work is subject to copyrights disputes.
I know that this is pointed out to faculty staf at my uni and there is policies to make sure these matters are dealt with correctly. Clear guidelines for what work belongs to which students.
I mentioned that a school has the right to achive your handed in work - this is normally a function to secure the material for disputes over grading etc. or for "counter-copying" at the school. But for some hand-ins often all bachelor projects and up the archivation serves as registration so that registered copyrights belongs to the student.
This was actually the case with the "original and complete" intelligence work that the NSA and CIA produced on the Iraque WMD situation prior to the war. If you remember that story that the intelligens reports where actually rip offs from a masters project written one year earlier. This could be reveled because masterprojects are handled by universities as described. In the case copyrights where not violated because an intelligense report is not published as such - but the copying was revealed - and stated that the services had very hard time producing info on thier own.
Besides this case lots of academic work ends in legal actions - as I would think of doing myself in this situation.

[Roketsloth]

You know what, kofod, why don't you mind your own f**king business?  Who i do business with is none of your concern...and it's one thing to say that i don't care enough about hookahculture getting ripped off not to buy from saharasmoke...and another to say ridiculousness such as "You are one of those people who has no sense of ethics", "will continue to do what you want no matter who's toes are stepped on", "I'm sure if you started a web company you too would have little compunction about stealling other reasources without their concent", etc.  What are these if not insults?  Noted, they aren't your quotes, but god forbid not everything I write on here is directed at you.  In fact, I don't even see anywhere until this post that you called me unethical...so I don't know what concern it is of yours to begin with. 
I don't know why you feel the need to tear apart everything I write on here with some essay or, excuse me "flamefest"...and repeat the same crap over and over as if everyone doesn't already know where you stand. 
Everyone i've mentioned this situation to has thought it to be...utterly retarded.  I for the life of me, don't understand why we're still talking about it...i think it's just an excuse for a FLAMEFEST!

[Kofod]

[quote name='Roketsloth']You know what, kofod, why don't you mind your own f**king business?  Who i do business with is none of your concern[/quote]
I have not shown any concern to where you do your business.
So why dont you quote where I should have written anything about you should'nt buy at saharasmoke.com.
I know that you can't because I have not written anything of that sort - even though you claim to have read it.
But if you can you will at the same time prove to me that you are actually capable of reading and understanding a simple text.
A lack of making this qoute will on the other hand behold me in the picture you have maken of yourself in my eyes as rather primitive, unskilled and self righteous person.
So can you make that qoute of where I tell you where you should do your business?

[Roketsloth]

First of all, "maken" is not a word...
"Uh, sorry dude, but I'm "blunt" too; if you behave unethically, then I'm going to call you unethical. Dismissing it as mere "beliefs", as if the ethical nature of buying things from known theives is really a matter of moral relativism grey-area, is a pretty weak arguement."
It looks to me like you're concerning yourself with where I do business.  I never said that you typed "don't buy from saharasmoke" to me...i said that you [b]made the issue your concern[/b].  Concern enough to lecture me on ethics.  You can't give me sh*t for doing business with "known theives" in one breath and then say "I have not shown any concern to where you do your business" in the next.  Especially at the same time that you're basically calling me a retard who's incapable of sloughing through your flamefests. 
By the way, calling someone else ignorant, primitive, and "unskilled" is not at all self-righteous.

[Kofod]

[quote name='Roketsloth']I never said that you typed "don't buy from saharasmoke" to me...i said that you [b]made the issue your concern[/b].  Concern enough to lecture me on ethics.  You can't give me sh*t for doing business with "known theives" in one breath and then say "I have not shown any concern to where you do your business" in the next.  Especially at the same time that you're basically calling me a retard who's incapable of sloughing through your flamefests.   [/quote]
I have not said all those things that you claim - I have not lectured you on ethics - I have not used the phrase "known theives" even though you qoute me on it.
Will you please read and understand other peoples posts before you comment or even quote them?
About the "maken" - bear in mind that this is my third and not my native language - I think that you are going to have to accept a typo every 10' post or 10.000 word or so.
That is if your danish or german or spanish is not better than my english?

[Mr. Scratch]

[quote name='Roketsloth']You know what, kofod, why don't you mind your own f**king business?  Who i do business with is none of your concern...[/quote]
<Mr. Scratch taps on Roketsloth's shoulder from behind.>
Pardon me, but it was I who called your ethics into question, not Kofod.
As for why your purcheses are my "f**cking business" and "concern"; they are such because you made them so.  You are the one here who came here, dismissed Hookahcultures' complaint with a wave of your hand, and announced that you were going to buy from HookahHookah anyway in spite of what they had done.  This makes your patronage a matter of legitimate discussion.  Had you not brought the matter up in the course of your own arguement, then it would not be an issue.  So you can't very well snivel now about how we're prying into your private affairs when it is you who came here trumpeting about them in the first place.  Well...not quite true, I suppose: you CAN very well snivel about it, it's just that I don't really care.   You brought it on yourself.
 

[entrailsgalore]

[quote name='Roketsloth']First of all, "maken" is not a word...

"Uh, sorry dude, but I'm "blunt" too; if you behave unethically,
then I'm going to call you unethical. Dismissing it as mere
"beliefs", as if the ethical nature of buying things from known theives
is really a matter of moral relativism grey-area, is a pretty weak
arguement."

It looks to me like you're concerning yourself with where I do
business.  I never said that you typed "don't buy from saharasmoke" to
me...i said that you [b]made the issue your concern[/b]. 
Concern enough to lecture me on ethics.  You can't give me sh*t for
doing business with "known theives" in one breath and then say "I have
not shown any concern to where you do your business" in the next. 
Especially at the same time that you're basically calling me a retard
who's incapable of sloughing through your flamefests.   

By the way, calling someone else ignorant, primitive, and "unskilled" is not at all self-righteous.[/quote]


Dude, youre rambling and rambling on and on about the same things. We
get it, you do not work for sahara smoke. WE KNOW You mentioned it a
billion times. YOu dont need to keep repreating yourself over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over......see how annoying it is?  Youve made your point already.
You
think it sucks they stole his work, but you dont work for sahara smoke.
We get it. If you dont have anything new to add, dont post. ALL yorue
doing is spamming the chat.  Just quit being a noob. Also if you
havent
noticed Kofod is from denmark, alot of people from denmark dont mark
DONT SPEAK ENGLISH 100% CORRECTLY.  If he misspelss a word, or
misuses
a word, give him a break. Id like to see you speak danish and type in
danish.  ANd I dont know WHERE you read kofod replying to your
posts, but I didnt see one post made by kofod that replied to you
repeating yourself. I dont know why you thought he did, are you
dyslexic or something and read someone elses post buy his name? ANyways
youre repeating yoru self and aruguing about the same thiung oevr and
over. If you have nothing new to add, dont add anything at all, dont be
a noob.

Kofod , thanks for answering my question. I always thought that
everything I made was mien and belonged to me even without a
copyright.  I was just wondering because stolen web material is
inbreach of copyright and I  would imagine you could take legal
action against it.

[Kofod]

[quote name='entrailsgalore']Kofod , thanks for answering my question. I always thought that everything I made was mien and belonged to me even without a copyright.  I was just wondering because stolen web material is inbreach of copyright and I  would imagine you could take legal action against it.[/quote]
No need for thanks - actually in another situation to day I found out that your work doesnt even have to belong to you (without being copyrighted) - You can pass of the property to others - still without registering or securing your copyrights. So it sort of becomes a somewhat like a "tangible" commodity that can change hands.
It was in relevance to the works of H.C.Andersen (its a big fuzz here in DK that he's 250 this year). It was mentioned that even though his works where never secured they still belonged to him - now he's dead so everybody can use it (disney's little mermaid - published books etc.) - but a possible descendant would inherit them and could claim ownership over the works if he appeared now, 200 years after the work has created (but not secured).
It was a law professor making the comment - so I guess its valid
Note: H.C.Andersen was utterly gay - so any offspring would be highly unlikely - that is if you have invested in cheap chinese H.C.Andersen mercandise or the like

[Roketsloth]

egh, yes, i thought mr. scratch's flamefest was by kofod.  sorry dude.
but all of that sh*t still goes for you mr. scratch.  by the way, that whole *taps on roketsloth's shoulder* thing...cute...and vomit inducing.  i don't care if you give your opinion about how i choose to spend my money...i don't care if you die sh*tting blood.  so lecture until your heart's content.
entrailsgalore...kofod types better than your ignorant american ass...so way to prove your point.