insidius Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Because you are misinterpreting me. You fail to read all of the thread, and then make a post. Your comments fail to show that you know anything about CO. If you care to learn, ask questions, don't make statements to argue your case when you don't know anything about the topic. And I am relaxed. It's annoying to discuss all of this stuff just to have people repeatedly pull the whole "I feel fine" so it can't be that bad, without reading up on this thread or CO and actually understand that you don't feel CO unless it is dangerously high. But the levels hookah produces are very high for a smoking method. Wow, so you're angry that I don't know anything about CO. Get mad at people often for not 'interpreting' you properly? Actually, it would be more accurate to say that you're angry because you think I don't know anything about CO based on my comments. It's not that I don't know, it's that I don't care. There is inherent risk in smoking hookah (or anything for that matter). This is generally understood as a given. It's annoying that people don't just accept everything you say on the internet, huh? It's also annoying to have someone come in here acting like the savior of the hookah community because he's run a few amateur tests with a secondhand smoke analyzer in an uncontrolled environment and expects to be heralded as the Patron Saint of Smoke. Dude. I have a right to voice my opinion. I also have the right to blatantly dismiss all of your hard work as baseless if I want to. That is my prerogative. You can insult me all you'd like and be annoyed all you like and yell and stomp and tell me to gtfo, but I have every right to be here as you do. It might be that people 'keep pulling the whole "I feel fine"' because there is something TO it. Tell you what, you keep playing with your smoke analyzer and I'll keep dying of CO poisoning. In the future, I'd appreciate it if you didn't lash out at me for giving my own voice in a public discussion. I'm done. Cheers. *hugs* :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 Lol ok bud. The reason I got angry w you is because you didn't read the entire thread and made an assumption this thread was about something that it wasn't. I have stated many times throughout the thread that there are tons of variables that I don't have controlled. If you read the thread you would know that :-) Majority of the things you stated in your original post, have been stated many times throughout this thread. You say : "I cannot smoke what is, according to this thread, the equivalent 2-3 packs of cigarettes (even over the course of several days, let alone 2 hours) and still feel fine;" It is only discussion of CO, not all the other crap. Yes you are right, you do have the right to be here but if you don't give a shit about CO then quit posting in this "useless" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 "It's annoying that people don't just accept everything you say on the internet, huh? It's also annoying to have someone come in here acting like the savior of the hookah community because he's run a few amateur tests with a secondhand smoke analyzer in an uncontrolled environment and expects to be heralded as the Patron Saint of Smoke." -------- Yup that's me, good work, I act like the Savior of hookah, you got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insidius Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I never said the thread was useless. You're projecting. Please stop. Breathe. Relax. Again you're trying to get rid of me for stating my opinion. Something you just said in chat kind of reinforces what I've been thinking all along: "(The Kaloud Lotus) makes coals laster ie lowers the amount of oxygen the coals get, there is no need to test, I guarentee it raises CO levels" This right here is why I take everything you say with a grain of salt. It's no offense, but if you're going to do tests and such, due diligence, man. What's the point of testing if it's not comprehensive/accurate? Science hasn't progressed as far as it has through false guarantees and guesswork. Anyway, I'll leave your thread now since it's clear opinions that differ with yours aren't welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 You sir need to stop posting. When using a wind cover the numbers went up, this is because the coals receive lower amounts of oxygen. The kaloud does the EXACT same thing but only chokes the coals even more than a wind cover. I am not going to pay for Kaloud to reinforce my opinion (which is exactly what you claim you have the right to) that it raises CO levels. Eric has also discussed the Kaloud in detail. I don't do any guess work. I am just stating that I won't pay for the Kaloud when I know it will show an increase in CO. It isn't guess work that since the Kaloud makes coals last longer = lower oxygen to the coals. Many coconut coal brands and other brands use sulphur that takes oxygen away from the coal which makes the coal last longer. Why do you think coconut coals last longer than Japanese? AND Japanese coals are showing lower CO levels. By using a wind cover you increase the length of time the coal lasts. This is because you deprive the coal of oxygen. The Kaloud uses the same premise. You are using a dome if you will that encloses the coals in a small area. This gives the coals less room to breath than without it. So I am not guessing. This info is also backed by Eric from Tangiers. Also, yes I may not have all the controlled variables like a true science experiment, but when you make a change let's call it change A, and you receive say 10% higher readings, and then you keep doing the same change A, and the numbers stay at a 10% increase, but then you change the setup and do Change B, and the numbers drop 20%, consistently it tells you something. You don't always need to have a controlled experiment to get some good evidence of how to create harm reduction techniques when smoking hookah. I am not trying to get any one to quit, I am not trying to scare anyone, I smoke all the time. I am just giving the people WHO DO CARE some information that I have found to help CO levels which seems to be the biggest issue with hookah smoking. Stop posting shit and making false claims. Also I disagreed with your false statements about what I was portraying in the thread. I didn't disagree with any comment you made other than the fact that you made it appear I was saying a hookah is equal to 2-3 packs of ciggs. You made a statement that I simply did not make, because as you pointed out, you didn't read the entire thread. That's it. You really didn't make any other statements. I feel you are not understanding what I am trying to say and this is getting blown up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Well sucks I have to step in, but y'all surely can discuss this like adults and not attack one another? I'm going to trust that you can... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 Well sucks I have to step in, but y'all surely can discuss this like adults and not attack one another? I'm going to trust that you can... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Sorry Chris, I won't be responding to any more of his responses. I thought it could be a thread where we all discuss ideas and ways to reduce CO harm but every now and then someone has to come on and defend hookah and make inaccurate statements. Maybe we should just close the thread. I am kind of sick of it anyways. Seems like I defend the thread and what not more than anything else. People who truly care should just PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSmokes Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Well sucks I have to step in, but y'all surely can discuss this like adults and not attack one another? I'm going to trust that you can... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Sorry Chris, I won't be responding to any more of his responses. I thought it could be a thread where we all discuss ideas and ways to reduce CO harm but every now and then someone has to come on and defend hookah and make inaccurate statements. Maybe we should just close the thread. I am kind of sick of it anyways. Seems like I defend the thread and what not more than anything else. People who truly care should just PM me. Nah don't do that. That tool can stay out of the thread....we can all put him on the ignore list. No worries there then. I wouldn't even worry about defending yourself against him...from an outsiders perspective, I laughed at every single line he wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Insidious has the right to his opinion, whether you agree with him or not. His first post on this thread was not disrespectful, and I think you just got a little hurt, John, because you've put so much effort into this. I understand that. But we can discuss the matter civilly like adults. If not I will have to close the thread. I really don't want to, though, because I appreciate what you're trying to do. So, last chance- If this escalates further, the thread WILL be closed. I will not stand for the petty name-calling, Justin. Insidious does not deserve to be called a tool for disagreeing with you. I agree with him in that I feel no negative effects from smoking hookah. This is a very valid point that has been mentioned several times now. But at the same time I am concerned about long term CO effects. If insidious chooses to not be concerned with this, that is his decision. He shouldn't be attacked for stating it. He has every right to disregard John's research (even though I personally wouldn't). John has every right to continue his research and inform the members here who are truly interested. So can we please just move on from this? I really don't want to hand out any bans here, especially to 3 long-time members. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSmokes Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Having someone state their opinion through shear ignorance because they didn't want to read the entire thread deserves a title :P While I don't like name calling, I don't like his attitude expressed in a thread that is for the good of the whole community. His opinion about not feeling the affects is stupid. People don't feel the affects of eating processed food until it develops into cancer...does that mean that entire time prior to that it wasn't hurting them!? I'm just defending a fellow, ACTIVE member who is trying to help us understand what it is that we are doing to our bodies. Whether I want to ignore it and still smoke every day is up to me but at least I understand what is happening. It's one of the only studies I can look at and know it is for our knowledge rather than demonizing it as worse than cigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Ignorant and stupid to you, but not to insidious. People have different perceptions. You can very well defend John without the name-calling. Now let's get back to the topic at hand. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insidius Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I think we just got off on the wrong foot. My first response rubbed you the wrong way and your retort rubbed me wrong. I can accept that. Sorry for my part. No hard feelings. Again though, I think you should start collating your data and editting it into the first post so that people like me, who don't have the capacity to sift through 12 pages of text, can still see the pertinent information (which is all I was ever asking about anyway). If you want your information to reach the most people here, that is the way to do it. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Insidious, I too would like to see all of the data compiled into one list. John, perhaps you could make a Google doc (like your pricing/ordering list) and I can put the link in the original post and say you're updating it as you go? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 Yeah, Ty mentioned it a few pages back. I told him we could do it once I had a little bit more data. But we can do it whenever. I will set one up this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Little update, as I stated previously in the thread, I smoke in my basement and light coals in my bulkhead. I normally put the heater coil on the middle step and shut the door. You can get a light to medium scent of the coals in the basement. Tonight, I put the coals on the very top step since it wasn't windy at all here. I noticed I could smell no coal scent at all in the basement. After 27 hits my reading was 12ppm. The closest I have ever been to that was 20ppm at 27 hits. So I am starting to wonder if my setup is basically the best I can get with a big vase, big bowl, large copper pipe, big unwashable hose, etc etc. and the only thing to work on now is the atmosphere. By the way the 12ppm reading at 27 hits was with a medium turkish bowl. I obviously knew that you need to consider where you smoke and what not, but thought that I had that under semi control. Clearly the slight scents you may pickup when lighting coals could play a HUGE part in your CO levels. I guess I down played that a bit. I will be trying this again on Friday to see. Either way, no matter what I have done, I have never seen readings this low ... more to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassouni Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I always light my coals outside, seems like I was doing the right thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agunn1231 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I too light my coals out side, I was wondering if lighting them inside vs outside makes a big difference? I would assume that it would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Eric always said the most CO released is when they are lighting. I am just shocked that getting the slightest whiff here and there could make that big of a difference. I will be testing again tomorrow to confirm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
â€On Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Honestly, that is a pretty startling discovery. It kind of makes a lot of the previous data collected moot. If the high CO levels are mostly from lighting coals, that changes the entire way you have to look at some of this. Good on you for picking up on that though, hopefully going forward you can get those levels down even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agunn1231 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I started lighting coals out side after I moved back in january of 2013, Since then if I leave the door open when I light the coals the smell makes me feel icky. I know that the icky feeling isn't related to CO, but being able to avoid feeling yucky and potentially lowering the amount of CO I take in is a good thing in my book. I also keep the back door open when I smoke, and the back door is roughly 4 feet from my coffee table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSmokes Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Wow! Looks like I'm going to have to change some things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Honestly, that is a pretty startling discovery. It kind of makes a lot of the previous data collected moot. If the high CO levels are mostly from lighting coals, that changes the entire way you have to look at some of this. Good on you for picking up on that though, hopefully going forward you can get those levels down even more. I was thinking the same, it sucks and is awesome at the same time lol. I will go through various setups again if I find that the numbers are low again when I re-try tomorrow. If it goes back to normal readings then I will have to try to figure out what was done differently or if it was just a fluke of some kind. I started lighting coals out side after I moved back in january of 2013, Since then if I leave the door open when I light the coals the smell makes me feel icky. I know that the icky feeling isn't related to CO, but being able to avoid feeling yucky and potentially lowering the amount of CO I take in is a good thing in my book. I also keep the back door open when I smoke, and the back door is roughly 4 feet from my coffee table. That works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassouni Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I dunno, I'm willing to put money on that "icky" feeling being CO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Try lighting the coals completely outside and see what the numbers are? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Try lighting the coals completely outside and see what the numbers are? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I plan on doing that after I test the EXACT setup I did last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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