pope's comments

[DarthHookah]

the pope says in a speech that muslims choose to live by the sword, and that thier path is one of violence, so one of them shoots a nun to prove how not violent they are? call me racist, insensitive, or ignorant, but i see some irony there, like pro-life people killing doctors.

[Johnny_D]

I missed 'them' shooting a nun. Nice way to prove yourself non violent!It is not unlike the kind of things we see here in the UK... Remember the cartoons of Allah? Demonstrations in London with placards showing some rather unsavoury messages. [I can't remember what they were word for word, so i won't attempt to recollect them and make myself look like an ass]I personally find it hard to know how where to 'pitch' myself with the whole muslim thing. When i was a young chap we had a couple of muslim guys live with our family for a number of years. Bloody nice folks :(JD - Rambling.

[DarthHookah]

yeah, whenever i talk about the subject, i always try to differentiate between muslims, and radical muslims (sometimes i throw in "fanatical" for good measure). ive met the muslims who run the hookah shop nearby and they are indeed very nice. and some of the regulars at work are muslims, and damn nice folks too (big tippers, too ).

[Renushka]

its unfortunate that a small minority of dickheads give the rest a bad image.

[Johnny_D]

[quote name='Renushka']its unfortunate that a small minority of dickheads give the rest a bad image.[/quote] I think there is an element of truth in what you say Renushka, However I feel a fundamental point has been missed. The 'small minority' appear to be not *that* small. And they would are also organised.So the small group appear to be able to influence a much larger group. Or, at the very least, would appear to be the mouthpiece (IE:Vocal Point) of the majority.JD

[Renushka]

shame that there are people in this world who organise a group based on hatred towards other ppl and are out there with the aim to force ppl to convert to their 'religon', which isnt what the tru religion is all about.

[Sonthert]

[quote name='Johnny_D'] [quote name='Renushka'] its unfortunate that a small minority of dickheads give the rest a bad image.[/quote] I think there is an element of truth in what you say Renushka, However I feel a fundamental point has been missed. The 'small minority' appear to be not *that* small. And they would are also organised.So the small group appear to be able to influence a much larger group. Or, at the very least, would appear to be the mouthpiece (IE:Vocal Point) of the majority.JD[/quote] No, it is indeed small, perhaps smaller than the percentage of whacko christians. Of course, all you ever hear is about the whack job muslims from other countries in this country. Its all due to the sensationalistic, slanted news programs that are driven to scare people. The truth is, 99% of all people are perfectly normal, sane individuals...irrespective of their religious affiliation. The whackos are always organized...thats nothing new. From the days following 2001, most of the muslims I knew were appalled at the terrorist attacks. Since "They" largely speak different languages and live in areas other than the US and Europe, its easy to classify them by the whackos. If anybody uses "outliers" as a guide for sterotyping, the stereotype will be rendered absurd. If the only Chinese person I had ever met was Yao, I would guess that all Chinese were extraordinarily tall. If Tony Cox was the only black person I'd ever met, I'd guess that black people were extraordinarily short. If it were Britney Spears, I would guess that all pop singers were stupid and devoid of talent. If it were Michael Moore, it would be all documentaries were slanted and based near Flint, Michigan. The huge majority of muslims are people we've never met before, just because a few rotten apples are rattling around, doesn't make them all that way. Its true, a huge majority of the Muslim people we've been exposed to through the news and the media are whackos, but in real terms they don't represent the overall group well.Lets put it a different way...how many Muslims do you know, personally? If all the Muslims you are familiar with aren't real, they are only in the media, its not fair to decide they are violent. They are no more violent than Christians or Jews or Hindus.

[SanguineSolitude]

and think through whats going on in iraq. half the "terrorists" are no more terrorists than the american colonist were when the british invaded us. those living in the country are fighting for the US to leave. I dont think theyre actually fighting against freedom, no matter how often a cowboy tells me its so. if you have no organized military and are facing the greatest military in the world you can only attack by "terrorist" or guerilla means.sure it sucks, but the US is the one who is invading, these "insurgents" actually live there. so how are they insurging?and yes i am american, i just am also a fan of logic. not that i support the "terrorists" but i can understand some of their anger.

[Johnny_D]

[quote name='Tangiers] [QUOTE=Johnny_D] [QUOTE=Renushka] <SNIPPED>JD[/QUOTE] <SNIPPED>Lets put it a different way...how many Muslims do you know' date=' personally? If all the Muslims you are familiar with aren't real, they are only in the media, its not fair to decide they are violent. They are no more violent than Christians or Jews or Hindus. [/quote'] And herein lies my own personal anguish. When i was just a kid we used to host foreign language students (These were folks who studied english for 6-12 months, then went onto university)And we had 3 muslim guys live with. And most of there friends used to live in our house too So the muslims that I personally know have been great! What a great bunch of guys, and if i was to meet osama in the street we would hug like brothers.BUT... I am not talking of those i have known. I suspect the problems are unique to the UK, maybe.JD

[Skimo]

dont muslims belive we are worthless, theres a word for it i just cant think of it, im not saying its true i just heard somthing about everybody who isnt that religion is worthless and should be killed. im glad im athiest haha, but yeah id agree the war is worthless and i think we should mind our own damn business. we have problems of our own and we go off creating bigger problems, doesnt make sence to me

[Sonthert]

Actually, Muslims hold christians in high regard, in the Koran, there are three "right" religions, as in virtuous, christianity, judaism and islam. There are a great many arab christians, the Chaldeans are catholics, Lebanon's majority in parliament several years ago was christians. The idea that Muslims are out to kill "us" is the same old warcry...we have to make them from humans with feelings that feel pain, get injured, bleed, die and then their friends come out to bury their body in the ground into automatons, unfeeling unthinking murderers that would kill a child and feel no remorse for it. Then we can kill them. Killing another human being is a truly terrible thing. Its hard to get most people to do it...thats why we have to talk people into doing it by convincing them that those people aren't "the same", they are "different". "They don't view human life the way we do." "They think life's cheap.""They enjoy killing us, killing Americans." "If you don't kill them, they'll kill you." and somewhere else, thousands of miles away, some other asshole is saying the exact same things to some young Muslims who want nothing but to serve their country and their god. We have to sit down and get to know each other...we all can become friends if we try...we have all the important things in common...just stop killing each other for five years, jeez!

[Skimo]

yeah i agree, i respect most of them, more so if they have a hookah jk jk but the ones i know are very nice which made me question what i heard

[SanguineSolitude]

muslims see both jews and christians as people who have wandered off the path but were on the right one at one point. islam is shares the same books torah and some of the new testament (though they disagree with which books the catholic church decided to put in it and that they elevate jesus(a prophet in the quran) to gods equal) they only differ really in mohammeds teachings.muslims see christians as heretics for elevating jesus to the level of god. christians see muslims as unbelivers for not believing jesus is gods son.

[ghostofdavid]

In is all about Muslim practice versus Muslim believe. Some texts are used to "prove" Islam's hatred of Christianity. Surah 9:5 "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.People have used this as a proof text to destroy those who do not believe what Islam believes. However, the modern Muslim would contend for a different context surrounding this belief. I was invited to attend Friday afternoon worship at a Mosque with some wonderful Muslims in a prolific area of Cincinnati and was made to feel very welcome. I did not feel threatened, I did not feel hatred exuded from every man and woman and in fact, I was greeted by a large black Muslim man who shook my hand and dialogued with me about Jesus. Talk about going outside of his comfort zone to make one feel comfortable.However, tread lightly when speaking with an American veteran when discussing Muslim fundamentalists they have encountered as they have met with bad apples of the bunch.Evil exists in and outside of all religions because evil (or the potential for evil) exists in all of us.

[Sonthert]

The only thing that scares me more than Islamic Fundamentalists are Christian Fundamentalists. At least with Islamic fundamentalists, they just blow up buildings and scare the bejezus out of people. Christian fundamentalists are busy eroding the fabric of liberty and democracy. I would much rather be blown up than to lose my liberty.

[Skimo]

lol wow, i never looked at it that way, so guys i think im moving to canada now, what do they belive over there?

[Sonthert]

Christians...and snow...deadly combination. Christians in warm weather aren't so bad, but lock some christians in snow and they go craaaazeeee!

[Johnny_D]

[quote name='Tangiers']Christians...and snow...deadly combination. Christians in warm weather aren't so bad, but lock some christians in snow and they go craaaazeeee![/quote]


Should be so bloody lucky to get some snow

JD - Snowless!

[Lakemonster]

A point I'll make regarding Tangiers stance:

Whacko Muslims and Whacko Christians..... or whacko whatevers are have usually dropped the code of belief or twisted it into a tool to suit personal agenda.

There are alot of "Christians" out there who are card toting KKK members. WTF? Sorta defeats istself.

Muslims that have decided to warp the Quran to serve themselves are in the same boat. Jihad is granted to those who are oppressed due to religeous beliefs FIRST HAND. But......... the radicals have turned this into some sort of "6 degrees of Seperation" when looking at it.

Fly planes into US buildings.... because the US "supports" ISREAL...... because ISREAL fights with PALESTINIANS............. and since "we" live in Afghanistan.... ( that connection beats the shit out of me) ..... Jihad is "ours".

The media is sending the picture to the West that Islam is running amuck.......... pictures and stories of peace loving Muslims that have not hurt a soul do not make "good" news. Theres no drama....no excitement to sell there. I think we get a really warped picture.

All the Muislims Ive met in the past were cool enough....... no suicide bombers.... and no contempt forthe fact that I was not a Muslim myself.

[Skimo]

yeah the media will always fuck things up, thats why i dont watch the news anymore

[King Mo]

A true Muslim believes that GOD is infinitely Just and infinitely merciful. These are fundimentals of faith and apply to all faiths and theists/atheists.

Due to God having these attributes, naturally humans have no authority to judge people, with the judgment coming from a higher authority that has infinite justice/mercy.

So, for those who think Muslims hate everyone, this is not the case. The prophet of Islam Muhammad treated everyone as a potential Muslim and as such if he was any different, then one out of every 5 people in the world wouldn't be a Muslim.

Now think of the numbers

1billion are muslims

if 0.1 percent of all these people were fantatics and nutjobs, then that's 1 million people which is more than enough for all the newspapers to chat shit about.

remember, it's ILLEGAL in many places to question the holocaust, yet Muslims have to be insulted and mocked in every newspaper. 'Anti-semitism 'is seen as the worst thing ever, yet when it's another religion, it's seen as bad. In Israel of all places, a lady who drew a cartoon mocking the prophet of Islam was arrested by Israeli police!!! Just goes to show you sometimes!

Nobody should mock people's beliefs if they are doing nothing wrong. People who commit crimes are criminals regardless of what race/creed they are from and should be dealt with accordingly.

How about people dressed in all kinds of funky gear. You can see kids with baggy pants and girls with thongs and bikinis meeting their in-laws and abnormal styles/piercings and that's perfectly respectable.
You see a woman with a headscarf, and all of a sudden it's worldwide news.

0.1 percent is overestimating it grossly.

now why would anyone sensibly judge 99.9 percent of any people who behave perfectly fine due to the actions of the tiniest of tiny minorites who are crazy.

You'll always get crazy people, whether muslims or any religion/belief system. People will always exploit and rebel against the law system they believe and many times it is organised in the form of a cult or organisation.