The Truth About Elmas, Pricing, And Turkish Nargiles

[Hassouni]

So I got back recently from a long trip to Turkey, where I smoked a few times and went nargile shopping a lot.  I was only in İstanbul. Elmas is in İzmir, and I contacted them and they do NOT have an authorized dealer in İstanbul, so everything I saw there was not Elmas. There was a point implied by Ahmet Elmas himself that some of what we may have been getting from Nargilestore (Mattarios and me) was second-quality/refurb Elmas products, so I was really keen to see the 1st quality stuff, but sadly there was no place in İstanbul selling them.

 

I went to all the places we've heard of online: Doğan, Tekdemir, Tokel, Sultan, and others I can't remember but whose websites I've seen.

 

With one or two exceptions, nothing I saw was as nice as the Elmas pipes I have or have seen, regardless of whether they're seconds or not. Stuff was cheap - a 639 style stem cost ~$30 and a canary like Chris had was about $50, stem only. At a distance a lot of these pipes look identical to Elmas. However, up close, there isn't as much detail in the patterns, and the patterns, although they look super-clean, they almost look mechanically engraved or something rather than cast - they just look artificially clean. 628-styles I saw were nowhere near as detailed - real Elmas 628s have every single bit of the surface of the pipe cast with patterns: none of the ones I saw were like that. I saw TONS of El Nefes-lookalike pipes. Needless to say there is no brand in Turkey called El Nefes.

 

Furthermore, the overall quality of metal on most pipes didn't seem as good. Polished Elmas pipes take on a really bright, high quality look, whereas these were a bit lackluster, but it was not a case of patina. There were  a few exceptions, but I could count them on one hand.

 

The standard tray for sale in most shops is super-boring, with no real designs. I found one place that had higher quality trays, but when I brought them home, they were still not as nice as my authentic Elmas trays. Granted, they cost $5 each. Same goes for windcovers.

 

I can also see why Elmas is trying to patent his designs. I saw 701 Osmanlı knockoffs everywhere, but REALLY cheap looking, for much much less. But while they looked like 701s at a distance, they looked quite different and quite cheesy upon inspection. Due possibly to demand from the Western market thanks to the various forums, etc, Lotus trays are now everywhere - welded on. In fact most 639-style stems I saw for sale had lotus trays welded on.

 

In some cases I'd say a few of the pipes I saw were comparable to Elmas quality at least in terms the metal, maybe a slight difference in shape or pattern. If I bought one of those I'd probably be very satisfied. In honesty, most of the ones I saw probably smoke fine. And given their price, there's nothing wrong with buying one.

 

However, as much as some of us (myself included) were bitching about Elmas pricing, I can now see why they charge what they do - or at least why they charge a premium over the average product on the market. In the end, you really do get what you pay for - $50 in Turkey will get you a solid set up, but it won't be the best you can get.

 

PS: All the cut crystal bases come from Iran, and I am positive that the same source supplies both Elmas and the various Istanbul shops, and they are EVERYWHERE. They are CHEAP when buying in person ($20 max for the classic bell shaped ones), and Elmas's prices on those are outrageous.

[Chreees]

I gathered three things from your post...

 

1. El Nefes are really not Turkish hookahs as we suspected all along, but rather made in... Hungary was it?

 

2. You are supporting terrorism when you buy a cut crystal base. :P

 

3. Elmas' prices are still too gatdamn high, even though you may "get what you pay for." My point is, they'd likely make more money if they bring the cost down, and then there wouldn't be so much of a necessity for copycats. It's the exact same thing with authentic vaping mods- why pay $200-300 for the authentic when you can get a clone for $30-40? In the vaping online community from what I can tell, clones have become very accepted as a economical alternative to expensive authentics. I guess the same applies for these "knockoff" Turkish pipes.

 

Thanks for the detailed post.

[â€On]

Good information, Hass. Did you see ANY pipes that you thought were top quality stuff? Or was it all "almost there"?

[mattarios2]

Well I am excited to see what my Nazar looks like.

I have noticed that the Elmas Turkish hookahs shine up to literally a silver color. If you shine them really well with a dremel or even by hand (just takes more work) they look like they are nickel plated. Even with some of their hollow pipes, the plating they use is super thick and very hard to ding.

And to answer your point Chris, I personally believe that when you do everything by hand why lower the price? If you are slaving over every single thing by hand to create higher quality, why cut yourself short? Maybe they literally can't charge less for their pipes because it would be pointless given the amount of hours put into one full setup.

I was one of the handful bitching about their prices. But with further research and having shown some of my pipes to friends/family who are in the metal business/production process of various companies, they say their prices are legit for what you get IF it truly is all hand made with casts for the metal, hand made hoses, etc. Which according to all of their pictures seems quite legit.

I was mainly disappointed with their wholesale vs retail prices more than anything because I really did want to sell them retail.

But do I believe they should sell stems and what not separate? Yes I do!

[mustang67n]

Interesting. I figured something similar to this was/would happen over there with the expansion of interest in Elmas-styled pipes. Interesting to see how it all plays out. Definitely nice to have some feet on the ground over there who gives us insider information! lol So.. about the bases/stems.. did you buy any? LOL

[Hassouni]

I gathered three things from your post...

 

1. El Nefes are really not Turkish hookahs as we suspected all along, but rather made in... Hungary was it?

 

2. You are supporting terrorism when you buy a cut crystal base. :P

 

3. Elmas' prices are still too gatdamn high, even though you may "get what you pay for." My point is, they'd likely make more money if they bring the cost down, and then there wouldn't be so much of a necessity for copycats. It's the exact same thing with authentic vaping mods- why pay $200-300 for the authentic when you can get a clone for $30-40? In the vaping online community from what I can tell, clones have become very accepted as a economical alternative to expensive authentics. I guess the same applies for these "knockoff" Turkish pipes.

 

Thanks for the detailed post.

 

Re point 1. El Nefes are almost certainly Turkish pipes. However there is no producer or brand in Turkey called El Nefes. I saw El Nefes lookalikes in numerous shops. They are probably all made in the same factory somewhere, that also makes stuff sold as "El Nefes" in Europe and the US.

 

Good information, Hass. Did you see ANY pipes that you thought were top quality stuff? Or was it all "almost there"?

 

I saw a select few that did seem to be top quality, might have even been Elmas, but one was an İslemeli (628), and the others were 624, 622, and 639 style designs. Nothing I'm overly interested in. Of the rest, maybe 50% was "almost there," the remaining 50 "meh, this could be better"

 

Interesting. I figured something similar to this was/would happen over there with the expansion of interest in Elmas-styled pipes. Interesting to see how it all plays out. Definitely nice to have some feet on the ground over there who gives us insider information! lol So.. about the bases/stems.. did you buy any? LOL

 

No. My suitcase space was limited anyway. I would have liked a 622 style, but in person they're just not that impressive. They're perfectly fine, but they're small and rather plain. I did get a couple no-name trays, as I discussed, and 5 of these: http://www.turkeysonline.com/product/39 

 

They work quite well, but with two caveats. They don't fit on my Lebanese bowls and I doubt they would fit on the larger Turkish bowls. However, the standard sized Turkish ones are fine, that's what they're designed for. Additionally, they require a lot of heat. 3 newly lit coconut coals work quite well, but once the coals die down even halfway, the smoke production dies down to almost nothing. 

 

When the full heat is on, it's pretty great - there's a significant barrier between the coals and the tobacco, and the smoke is thick and rich and smooth, while not scorching/burning as 3 brand new coconut coals might normally.

 

I can see them being very useful in lounges that use natural coals, where somebody comes by every 15 minutes to adjust/renew your coals, as they do in the Middle East.

[Hassouni]

By the way, the other thing I gathered is that Elmas, not having any shops outside their main shop in İzmir, and not reallly selling online (NS is sort of a grey area) is not that well known in Turkey. Brands exist only as the shop a pipe is sold from, but most of the shops have the exact same product. From what I've concluced, Elmas got known to us because they actually had a semi-decent website before anyone else.

 

 

 

Also, I was in the market for some more hoses. But almost all the ones I saw have that looped thread on the handle, like this:

 

 

Rather than the tufted kind, that all my Elmas hoses have:

 

I think the tufted kind looks a lot better, and is probably harder to make. I saw MAYBE 3 of them in all the shops I went to.

[twoapplesplease]

I like this

[Pavo21]

good info hass, yah there is a difference in the pipes i have seen a lot of them first hand and elmas does have better quality over all. but hass you are the man, you got a huge amount of first had experience going over to turkey