Some words on Tangiers Green apple.

[King Mo]

Hello peeps,

Haven't posted here in a while, good to see some familiar faces around (spotted some posts by MRBubble and Mushrat).

Forum design looks pretty funky too. (is that rival site still running with that havana moron who caused some conflict a while back?)

anyways

I haven't really been ordering too much tobacco from the US as I've been getting steady supplies from Dubai and some fantastic reliable Fakher.

I thought it's about time I got an order in to sample some alternative flavours.

Looking around at the forums I noticed some interesting comments regarding a one 'tangiers tobacco'.

So amongst the flavours I tried, I thought I'd go with one from this brand, namely the green apple flavour.

I was rather surprised to hear such unusual terms like humidity shock and climate rape and God knows what. It seemed rather suspicious to me and perhaps a mask for what essentially is an inferior product.

Still, in order to humour myself and the fact that I always give things a fair go, I went ahead and decided to have 2 smokes. One straight out of the pack, and another after this whole 'leaving out for a few hours' business.

Different arrangements with coal, strength etc resulted in the same result. Prior to the charade of 'preparing' the tobacco, and post preparation, the end result was the same. Essentially it was crap.

I don't wish to tread on any toes of the tangiers bandwagon, but the tobacco had a similar harshness to the 'hookahhookah' tobacco I had a while ago (back on the old style forum).

I could get some flavour with a very mild coal arrangement and it did appear to burn very easily so I was gentle in the ascending heat levels in order to optimise the smoke

It really was poor and having come back from a vacation in egypt, even some of the Nakhla (yes Nakhla) I had there was a far more enjoyable experience.

I've also been having lots of Fakher grape and golden grape and really the difference between this and the alleged flavour hits of Tangiers is like the difference between heaven and hell.

Perhaps other flavours are better, but if Green apple is supposed to be a strong flavour (which it may not be) I hate to even contemplate what a poor tangiers flavour is.

I hold no shares in any m3assel company and do not sell tobacco, so I try to remain objective. A year or so ago hookah hookah was the rage because a member on this site used to order Kilos of HookahHookah only for it to be a complete waste of money. I wonder if Tangiers is similar in the way it is bigged up.

I hear quotes like 'tangiers' it's not for everyone, and I have to agree. It is not for people who enjoy rich smoke and strong flavour.

I've got some al amir caramel apple which I'll have soon, which may be better.

Humidity shock in my case was replaced by a shocking shisha experience.

n.b. I am no shisha tourist, I've been enjoying making/smoking shishas for years now.

best wishes

HRH.

[Calcartman]

As he's always said his shisha is not for everyone.

I did not enjoy the flavor I got, but I still enjoyed the tobacco. The 'harshness' you describe was not there for me, even with thick thick smoke.

Perhaps you had a bad batch, or perhaps the tobbacco just is not for you.

[jtemes]

[quote]It is not for people who enjoy rich smoke and strong flavour.[/quote]

Well I know right from that quote that you didn't have it smoking right. It's an acquired skill which everybody takes time to figure it out. Try first off packing a fairly tighter bowl. Not simply sprinkling it in like you would with most other brands. Use less heat also. When I smoke I get as much flavor as I would with any other brand and thicker smoke. Just try it again. As for Green Apple I've never tried it before so I can't comment on the flavor but I know the smoke will be rich if you get it going right.

[DizzyGuy]

Just because you can't get rich smoke and strong flavor out of it, doesn't mean that other people can't.

To each their own, though.

[King Mo]

before you respond to me, I suggest trying the 'green apple' flavour rather than blindly assume that you have some shisha insight that is beyond my experience.

if you feel it is arrogance on my part that I can't get this mysterious brand of tobacco to smoke, then fair enough. However, I am telling you objectively that this flavour from this brand is a far inferior product to much of what I've tried (probably 50 different flavours or more from perhaps 12 different brands)

Oh wait, I need to be careful of my humidity level in my room :roll:

[Calcartman]

[quote name='King Mo']before you respond to me,  I suggest trying the 'green apple' flavour rather than blindly assume that you have some shisha insight that is beyond my experience.

if you feel it is arrogance on my part that I can't get this mysterious brand of tobacco to smoke, then fair enough. However, I am telling you objectively that this flavour from this brand is a far inferior product to much of what I've tried (probably 50 different flavours or more from perhaps 12 different brands)

Oh wait, I need to be careful of my humidity level in my room  :roll:[/quote]


You are complaining about your Tangiers.
many others say it smokes fine.
Trust that at least some of us are decently competent at smoking our hookahs, and we would not rave about it if we did not like it.

I did not even enjoy the flavor, however I quite liked the tobacco.

[King Mo]

[quote name='Calcartman']As he's always said his shisha is not for everyone.

I did not enjoy the flavor I got, but I still enjoyed the tobacco. The 'harshness' you describe was not there for me, even with thick thick smoke.

Perhaps you had a bad batch, or perhaps the tobbacco just is not for you.[/quote]

By harshness, I am referring to an uncomfortable experience rather than the typical coughing harshness of a demolished head.

it was very similar to the hookah hookah stuff I tried a while ago. It's not a beautiful smooth rich feeling.

EDIT - (so nice to finally have an edit function). I am not saying it's the worst product I've ever tried, but at the end of the day, as a consumer, it's important to hear a range of opinions from different people who have different experience. This is mine

[ZAP]

The return of King Mo with some very strong words.

It's good to see all these old timers returning!

[dirtysamurai]

i've only tried tangiers blueberry and from my 2 smoke sessions i had with it, i can say that with a normal egyptian bowl, the tangiers isnt going to smoke correctly. with either of the tangiers bowls, the flavor will just hit your tastebuds and creep its way through your brain - there is that much flavor.

but that was just from the blueberry. never had green apple and will probably wont try it anytime soon

[cymptom]

It's a little more than just an opinion, I think... you made some pretty strong generalizations there that seem entirely misrepresentative of Tangiers tobacco. I think most others who have taken the time to get this stuff smoking well and I have found that rich smoke and strong flavor are characteristics you would ascribe to Tangiers in comparison to brands like Al Fakher. Al Fakher has a lot of good flavors, but I wouldn't describe them as "rich" because the smoke has very little weight. That's like calling skim milk "rich" in comparison to whole milk. I haven't tried the Tangiers Green Apple flavor, but I've tried 11 or so other flavors and they are all the richest and strongest in flavor of all the shisha I own, which includes 7 or 8 AF flavors, random Nakhla and Layalina.

I'd bet money that if you smoked it on my setup you'd change your mind. If you find it to be too much of a hassle, then I'd say it's not for you. But you said you wanted rich smoke and strong flavor, and those are relative terms generally descriptive of Tangiers if you're comparing them to brands like AF. If you're willing to invest some time and perhaps money messing with the stuff and tweaking your methods until you get it smoking well, I'd say give it another shot, perhaps with a different flavor.

[SanguineSolitude]

yeah dont be so quick to call the entire brand crap. it may be true that green apple tastes like anus. ive yet to find a brand which doesnt have some nasty flavors. but im surprised you didnt think tangiers smoked rich and smooth. all i can imagina is indeed that you didnt have it going well. ive also tried around 10 flavors of tangiers and even the ones i didnt like much had thick rich smoke and deep complexity.
tangiers kashmir peach is about the most delicious shisha ive ever tried. not that its even my favorite... but its just amazing.


tangiers is many things to many people. maybe its just not for you?

[EvansLight]

green apple is another ive tried, friend had 25g left of it and passed it along. i personnaly like it, it was aight.

And i have to agree with everyone else, your jumping on tangiers just because you had a bad experience with it. If you had read around at all the tangiers hype, then you might have also read that tangiers is a finicky beast, and also takes a damn good amount of skill in preperation and heat management. i thought i was decent, and burned my first 2 bowls. After a few more tries i can now fully enjoy some tang. But all this is just how i feel. Tangiers is harder to use, but its well worth it, and is the only tobacco id pay more than $15 for.

[King Mo]

Thank you for the responses. Clearly Tangiers must've changed some of your lives somehow

I am not one to crucify a brand based on one flavour, but relative to the ridiculous hype I think some of you guys need to get back with reality.

In my next order, I'll try one more flavour. Is there a tangiers flavour that is somewhat outstanding with unanimous praise from every Tangier lover?
As for this one, I am amazed that you people keep telling me that I 'can't get it right' when the likelihood is that I have been smoking shisha before 99 percent of all Americans had even heard of it (I say this not in a xenophobic manner, but simply due to the fact that it is a 'new craze' in the states). You can put horse manure with glycerin in the shisha head and I'll get it to smoke how it should.

Any tobacco from any brand (no matter how much bullshit they give you in the packaging about climate change and culture shock) will require adjusting and if you are not a shisha tourist, then you will always vary the heat/foil/tobacco arrangement(s) till it smoke well without getting burnt. The principle remains the same.

I have not said that it didn't smoke or that I couldn't get any flavour from it. I would've described it as such. I got some flavour and some decent smoke, but I couldn't get "Rich smoke AND strong flavour"

[quote]Sanguine solitude states : tangiers kashmir peach is about the most delicious shisha ive ever tried. not that its even my favorites... but its just amazing.


tangiers is many things to many people. maybe its just not for you?[/quote]

First of all, if it is the most delicious M3assal/moassal (note 'shisha' is the actual apparatus, not the tobacco molasses) you've tried, then why does your tone imply that it's not really up there with your favourites, after all it's 'amazing'
Also, you are not talking about literature here, you are talking about tobacco, something which doesn't have as much depth as you seem to assign to tangiers.

Perhaps people are elevating the status of this tobacco because it gives you all this nonsense about preparation and how it is different to anything ever made?

As I said, I did a practical experiment of pre-preparation and post preparation according to the manufacturers instructions. There was no difference.

There's a mild semi-appley undertone with smoke, but there is a little discomfort when compared to the smoother brands out there. Anyone who says this is smooth needs to try some Grape or Apple fakher, or perhaps some lemon Romman or Al Amir. If yo ucan't get rich smooth thick smoke with great flavour out of them, then you are probably skimping on the coal or can't get any shisha to smoke right. Flavour is a matter of personal [b]taste[/b], smoke density and flavour strength of the tobacco in your possession is a matter of [b]skill[/b]

I suggest if there are other people replying that they type on the assumption that 'I got it to smoke right', as I am telling you I did. I smoked for a good 45 mins before I decided to change to better tobacco.

As a side note, It gets a little better about 10 mins into the smoke.

Probably the reason for this 'uncomfortable feeling' is due to the tobacco used; I imagine it's too strong. I imagine it is the same type as Hookahhookah which I tried (perhaps someone can verify as I don't have the pack). I've recently given up smoking cigarettes which is why I'm overkilling the shisha, but had I no prior Cigarette experience, I'd probably find the Tangiers green apple unbearable after 5 mins let alone 45.

IMO Tangiers green apple is probably around 4-5/10

which is a better score than some fumari flavours out there and one or two flavours of other alleged 'premium' brands.

For it to be considered in the same breath as Romman which is overpriced but decent and Fakher which is easily the best, it has to do a heck of alot better than the Green apple flavour.

[DarthHookah]

personally, tangiers tickles my throat. i can get a good smoke with good flavor, but i cant get very big hits because i cant keep it down.

[PersianPride]

@King Mo

Bro I think you need to relax. You don't like Tangiers we get you but what exactly is this whole ranting about? The worst tobacco I ever tried was Saet Safa but if someone tells me they think it is the best tobacco in the world I'm not going to excuse them of lying.

Also in case there is any confusion I live in Australia and have never tried Tangiers and probably never will.

[EvansLight]

as with all things in life, how long you have been doing it doesn't automatically make you better than everyone here at it, just because we happen to be newer at it than you. Im not saying you dont know what your doing, i simply said tangiers is a finicky brand. However he makes it makes it a little more tempramental than most. And as weve said TANGIERS ISNT FOR EVERYONE.

IT IS a stronger tobacco, IT DOES have a high nicotine content, and your saying that if we say its just so deleicious that no matter what you should like it. How we like flavours is all opinion based. Its all down to our tastebuds and personal prefrences, what one person might find uber tastey another might find to be total crap.

Now im not saying your gonna eventually like tangiers, but in your first post you talked about it constantly being harsh, and sounded like you kept burning it, hence the reason we said you might not be smoking it right. But if your not burning it, and you still dont like it, than you dont like it. That simple. I personally am not a huge fan of Al Fahker, so does that mean im just crazy? No its me OPINION. Were trying to make sure your smoking it right first, because it is one of our favorites, if you are then fine, you dont like it. Its not gonna effect our smoke if you happen to not like tangiers.

So if you dont like it you dont like it, doesnt mean that its a bad brand, doesnt mean that it doesnt live up to the hype to others. In recent polls it has been ranked up top, it was either 1st or 2nd, it didnt get that way on hype alone.

/end rant

[cymptom]

King Mo,

All I'm saying is that there's no need for the kind of overgeneralizing slander you're throwing around, saying stuff like "Tangiers is not for people who enjoy rich smoke and strong flavour." You tried smoking 1 flavor twice (with flawless technique) and that gives you grounds to come on the forums and tell everyone that they've been fooled? That the most popular brand on the forum (according to polls) has somehow through myths of complexity duped everyone into believing that they are smoking flavorful tobacco when in fact they are smoking the opposite?

You sound like you really want something to prove, but what you need is a little modesty. You're not going to lose your title as king at the slightest suggestion of error in your setup of Tangiers...

I know how harsh Tangiers can smoke -- my first 10-15 sessions were not so good, sometimes unbearable. But I'd have to have a pretty big head to take this as evidence that everyone else is wrong and I am right.

[SanguineSolitude]

yeah that was an unneccessary im the best rant. chill my friend. all love here.

and yes tangiers is strong nicotine.... but hookah hookah isnt so who knows

[skiracerj1]

I've had the tangiers green apple and its just like all his other flavors, delicious and if smoked properly (i.e. good heat managment) produces the densest clouds of smoke I've ever seen. That said it is hard to get it right all the time, and I think your a little quick to judge after only smoking it twice. Most people take 7 or 8 bowls to fully get a grasp on the tangiers. And as for your sudden judgment of us all be idiots because we havent smoked as long as you, I simply offer you this, Henry Ford made the first mass produced car in the world, so by your logic Ford makes better cars than everyone else, which alot of people would beg to differ on (and before you ford guys jump on my throat I dont that they are neccessarily bad cars, just not the best)
/end rant

[Sonthert]

Hi, welcome back, King Mo.

I would read some notes on humidity shock. Many brands benefit from getting used to the humidity in general. As I am grooming the tobacco, I notice it gets wetter and drier with the changes in humidity. I started the discussion about humidity shock, almost a year ago. Just believe this one point...its true. Give the tobacco some time with the air and see if it doesn't improve. Don't sprinkle or separate the tobacco...fill the bowl, more or less, with the tobacco at the same "density" it has in the tub/bag/jar you have it in. It does sound like, perhaps, you haven't added enough tobacco to the bowl.

[King Mo]

Interesting bunch of responses.

Lets get one thing clear as when you lose the fundamental point, it's all too easy to get caught up in some verbal intercourse over the minors. I'll break it down so it gets digested easily.

I have in no way posted this to pee all over Tangiers, nor have I attacked anyone personally. I purchased the product as a customer following some phenomenal hype on a site I've used alot in the past.

I have also not come here to flex my 'shisha making' muscles, as I am totally comfortable with it and in my 400 posts or so I haven't adopted that attitude. My stance was a response to those who seemed certain that 'I can't get it right' and other remarks which I found rather arrogant. I merely illustrated that I have enough experience to know what I'm doing and I would not have posted my comments had I not got it smoking right. (I would've simply posted "Tangiers shisha, burns and is unsmokable")
When I tell you I know what I'm doing, it's not to make you feel inadequate or to belittle, it is simply giving you a response to the remarks about how I couldn't get it right etc.

I did after all read the hype about tangiers, and the 'tips' on how to 'get it right' that came with the hype.

Now, hopefully that gives enough insight to my stance rather than some rash judgements about my 'ranting' and perhaps alleged overhyping of my shisha technique.

If I didn't know any better, perhaps some of my 'accusers' have some inferiority complex about something as simple and trivial as making a shisha. (It does need getting used to, but once you have experience and know what you're doing, it's hardly something so difficult that you need to be proud of it).

As for the tobacco, it is very strong so may be a bit of a decent replacement for my giving up of cigarettes, however it's not very comfortable. I could always smoke zaghlool if I want something strong, or perhaps Al Qema which is also surprisingly strong. This particular smoke wasn't flavourless, and did generate some reasonable clouds, but the flavour wasn't particularly rich by any stretch. People have different smoking styles, but the majority of Shisha smokers do enjoy deep inhalations and huge clouds that result from it. Due to the strength of Tangiers, it doesn't facilitate this too much to the casual smoker, and as I said, if I wasn't used to cigarettes, then this would be a bitch to smoke.

I will give one more flavour a try, as it wasn't the worst tobacco in the world and perhaps other flavours are better. If Green apple is a fair representation though, then in my opinion (as it always has been) the hype is quite unbelievable.

Since when did this brand become beyond criticism, or any brand for that matter??

I think some of you peeps need to chill a little and realise that there is a hint of hypocrisy for attacking someone for having an opinion that doesn't agree with yours and putting it down to their apparant inability to handle the shisha/tobacco, yet claiming to be champions of freedom of expression




@ Sonthert, I have not read about this humidity shock, but I am telling you that the tobacco tasted the same before and after. With most other flavours that I've had, anything that's left exposed to air for any extended period of time, tends to lose flavour. Perhaps your tobacco tends to be wetter or something so it can handle it, but generally, if I leave say some fakher out for very long, it's definately to the detriment of the smoke.

Have you actually tried smoking Tangiers out of the pack, and then after leaving it out for a while and noted any difference, or is this just a theory you have.

[SanguineSolitude]

sonthert is Eric who manufactures tangiers if you didnt know. screenname change and all. if you did sorry i was just making sure. but i imagine he has smoked it both out of the package and after a few hours.

i have found that tangiers flavors are usually improved by a little acclimation, probably because my locale isnt the same type of weather as san diego. ive also found that if other unwashed tobaccos are smoking oddly acclimation sometimes will rectify that.


i personally only commented negatively towards your post because you seemed rather arrogant and easily upset in the post. Im sure you are neither of the above and so im sorry for the kneejerk reaction.. ive smoked a good bit of tangiers and indeed i dont like every flavor. its not beyond criticism, but you were rather harsh in condemning the brand having only smoked it once or twice and only one flavor. other than that youre cool by me. just try to keep from getting too turned on by yourself.



different smokes for different folks.

[King Mo]

[quote name='SanguineSolitude']sonthert is Eric who manufactures tangiers if you didnt know. screenname change and all. if you did sorry i was just making sure. but i imagine he has smoked it both out of the package and after a few hours.[/quote]

Hmm, that explains a few things. Also a moderator on the site? Lets hope things are as impartial as they used to be.

[quote]i have found that tangiers flavors are usually improved by a little acclimation, probably because my locale isnt the same type of weather as san diego. ive also found that if other unwashed tobaccos are smoking oddly acclimation sometimes will rectify that.[/quote]Interesting observations, but generally they wouldn't manufacture molasses if they required such efforts to make them smoke well. Dozens upon dozens of flavours smoke well out of the box. Hey I'm open minded but if you leave tobacco out, it will dry, and if it drys, it becomes difficult to smoke. Take a look at some Romman tobacco which if kept in the container they use, tends to dry out and deteriorate. M3assal needs to be kept away from air. If Tangiers is manufactured differently and requires such treatment, it sounds like a selling tactic to me, but If it's a great smoke then I'll smoke it.(which is why I've asked for a representative flavour which seems to have the most universal appeal if Green apple isn't a fair reflection)

[quote]i personally only commented negatively towards your post because you seemed rather arrogant and easily upset in the post. Im sure you are neither of the above and so im sorry for the kneejerk reaction..[/quote]

No problems from my end. I occasionally like to keep things light hearted and many of my remarks tend to be said tongue in cheek, such as the 'Tangiers not for everyone....'
As for arrogance? in the initial post I was simply giving a criticism of something that had alot of hype. Anything after that was a response to arrogance in automatically assuming that I must've not known what I was doing rather than accept that I didn't like it.

[quote]ive smoked a good bit of tangiers and indeed i dont like every flavor. its not beyond criticism, but you were rather harsh in condemning the brand having only smoked it once or twice and only one flavor. other than that youre cool by me.  
different smokes for different folks.[/quote]

I'll try one more flavour when I order some more tobacco. This one has some flavour which is more than what I can say about Fumari, where many of their flavours are like smoking thin air. Despite bad experiences with them, I still occasionally try the odd new flavour.

Bottom line, consumer power wins, unless your dad owns the company, I don't like to hear reactions from people to try and justify why I must be wrong.

As for one guy in his silly rant mentioning polls, well, nakhla tends to come up in most polls as high ranking. It does not make it the best.

[Joseph]

Nakhla has some great flavors, people just don't like it because of its price. Some feel that if a tobacco is lower cost, than it must be inferior. This is completely false. Their double apple is by far one of the best, and there melon is another great one. Waha and nakhla are two of my favorites, so in my opinion they are two of the best, and depending on my mood I often vote for one of the two in polls.

[King Mo]

@ Joseph, Only an idiot would think that something cheap automatically means it is inferior.

Nakhla tends to be an inferior product because it burns quicker and tends to be far off the mark in many flavours when compared with some of the higher priced brands.

If something lasts longer and gives a great flavour then generally you get more value for money.

In Egypt, Nakhla is garbage cheap, literally in american money about 50 cents for a 250g batch

in UAE, 250g of Fakher will set you back around 6 or 7 dollars

so essentially, Nakhla is far more overpriced than Fakher on the US websites, where nakhla is probably 1000 percent price rise and Fakher is maybe 150 percent or so.

American brands are priced probably due to higher costs etc in America.