Some words on Tangiers Green apple.

[shonimus]

Thank you for bringing new perspective into this forum with your review. Everyone praises Tangiers to no end. I don't get the hype, either.

[DrunkenWizard]

Good to see you Mo. You need your avatar back! You should try kashmir peach if you want to try something different.

[SanguineSolitude]

drunken wizard i love the new avatar. just dont let skimo see it, hes only 17 after all.

and yeah though sonthert is a mod hes very good at not involving his product overmuch. and certainly not in ways people dislike him to be involved.

[cymptom]

Nobody is criticizing you for your opinion -- I'm criticizing you because you're drawing a number of rash conclusions (which are contrary to popular experience) with no actual experience besides two attempts at smoking one flavor. You've accused Tangiers of making up all this humidy shock business as "a mask for what essentially is an inferior product," suggesting that the reputation of Tangiers tobacco is not a result not of qualtiy but of sheer hype and misrepresentation. "It is not for people who enjoy rich smoke and strong flavour" -- you said all these things after smoking one flavor twice, and you're going to accuse [i]us[/i] of arrogance for questioning the integrity of your findings? I hate to say it, but when someone takes something that's popular, conducts an inadequate evaltuation of it and immediately goes running to the public flaunting his/her uniquely disapproving opinion, it's usually because he/she wanted the thrill of opposing popular opinion, not because he/she had an honest interest in investigation and evaluation of an acclaimed product. It would have been fine to post tell of your experience with Green Apple thus far, but you step over the line in concluding that Tangiers tobacco and the hype surrounding it "is essentially crap."

[quote name='King Mo']As for one guy in his silly rant mentioning polls, well, nakhla tends to come up in most polls as high ranking. It does not make it the best.[/quote]My point in mentioning the polls was merely that if you're going to attack what is popular, you better have the experience and ample evidence to back up your arguments. Sheer authority just isn't gonna cut it, King Mo. As for Nakhla, they have some flavors that I think are more on the mark than the higher priced brands (Sweet Melon, Double Apple, Mandarin Orange, Cinnamon, Cardamon, Peach...) Don't they at least deserve a little respect?

[quote name='King Mo']that was a response to arrogance in automatically assuming that I must've not known what I was doing rather than accept that I didn't like it.[/quote]You said your smoke was harsh/not smooth, and all I can tell you is that my Tangiers smoke, when I've got it going properly, IS smooth. Blame your technique, blame the gods, curse satan's name, or criticize the tobacco for its low user-friendliness factor, but don't try telling us from your two sessions of experience you've concluded that the smoke in its ideal form is not smooth

[SanguineSolitude]

nakhla sweet melon is really really good.

[Joseph]

I always have some nakhla sweet melon and double apple around. No one does those flavors better than nakhla.

[skiracerj1]

[quote name='Joseph']I always have some nakhla sweet melon and double apple around.  No one does those flavors better than nakhla.[/quote]

Yeah nahkla sweet melon is really good, so is there double apple, but i have to say I think layalina's dapple is a little better. Man now u got me craving nahkla sweet melon, time for a trip to the store

[Sonthert]

Well, King Mo, I appreciate your responses, in fact. I have noticed for a long time that tobacco that contains nicotine seems to be more supceptible to changes in humidity (since nicotine is soluble in water). This dates back at least seven years of smoking. We'd notice changes in the flavor of Nahkla Double Apple and attribute them to poorly packed bowls or bad batches of tobacco. One day, when I was first testing my tobacco, years ago, I packed a bowl, it had little flavor and dies quickly. Alarmed, I tried a different flavor of mine. Same result. Frustrated, I packed a bowl of Nahkla Double Apple and found...the same thing. All three tobaccos, having been isolated from changing with the humidity, by being selaed in tubs, allowed them to get to a very severe state of humidity shock. Initially, I thought it might be caused by a very high humidity, but I found later, that it will all smoke, more or less, if it gets used to it. Anybody who puts their cigars in a humidor will tell youthat tobacco changes with humidity. Glycerine is an humectant, retaining water. Would it be reeasonable that this process took time, perhaps reacting slower than the weather did? That would mean that some changes in humidity would be slowly followed by the tobacco.

I respect your opinion, Mo, I am sorry you didn't have any success with it. I had one lounge tell me they couldn't buy it because it was too light for their patrons...what were they smoking? Gunpowder? In a good state, it is very smooth...you just have to go back to the good old days of Bahraini and pack it that way.

[King Mo]

[quote name='cymptom']Nobody is criticizing you for your opinion -- I'm criticizing you because you're drawing a number of rash conclusions (which are contrary to popular experience) with no actual experience besides two attempts at smoking one flavor. You've accused Tangiers of making up all this humidy shock business as "a mask for what essentially is an inferior product," suggesting that the reputation of Tangiers tobacco is not a result not of qualtiy but of sheer hype and misrepresentation. "It is not for people who enjoy rich smoke and strong flavour" -- you said all these things after smoking one flavor twice, and you're going to accuse [i]us[/i] of arrogance for questioning the integrity of your findings? I hate to say it, but when someone takes something that's popular, conducts an inadequate evaltuation of it and immediately goes running to the public flaunting his/her uniquely disapproving opinion, it's usually because he/she wanted the thrill of opposing popular opinion, not because he/she had an honest interest in investigation and evaluation of an acclaimed product. It would have been fine to post tell of your experience with Green Apple thus far, but you step over the line in concluding that Tangiers tobacco and the hype surrounding it "is essentially crap."[/quote]

You are what I believe (to coin an american phrase) a Tangiers 'Nuthugger'.

To accuse me of 'stepping over the line' by criticising Tangiers pathetically indicates this.

Perhaps you need to realise that following popular opinion is the least of my concerns and my posting history generally is related to my own opinion. Your personal criticism of me and comments regarding my intentions for posting are what is ridiculous and indicates you are starved of some attention and wish to flex some finger muscles in trying to put blood and sweat into a Tangiers ass-kissing session.

The fact of the matter is that Tangiers was hyped no-end, and with a poll that has maybe 20 voters or another insignificant number liking it, perhaps it was unwise of me to trust it. Especially seeing people like you who seem to get so offended about it. Clearly there is no reasoning with you so I'd appreciate if you keep your responses on the topic of the brand/flavour rather than make assumptions that make you seem like a teenage football fan who want's to have an intellectual debate on why their team was not supported by people who did not like their style of play.

Relative to the hype, the tobacco should've been good to excellent, whereas it is actually moderate to poor. The sooner you realise this is my perception of it, the better. Relative to the hype, my response was probably understated !! You do understand what relative means?? Heck, I could say relative to YOUR hype, my response was mild judging by your comments towards me.

[quote]My point in mentioning the polls was merely that if you're going to attack what is popular, you better have the experience and ample evidence to back up your arguments. Sheer authority just isn't gonna cut it, King Mo. As for Nakhla, they have some flavors that I think are more on the mark than the higher priced brands (Sweet Melon, Double Apple, Mandarin Orange, Cinnamon, Cardamon, Peach...) Don't they at least deserve a little respect?[/quote]There is no 'sheer authority' about it. Where do you get such statements from? I have enough experience to substantiate my arguments, however comparative experience is not the issue here. If I could quantitively illustrate my experience relative to yours, maybe you'd be shamed, or maybe not; it really doesn't matter in the world of opinions and perception. You simply want your 'nuthuggery' to prevail. Perhaps you want to impress the moderator

As for Nakhla. Double apple, Sweet Melon and Peach are flavours that I have tried many many times normally, and also at their absolute freshest in Egypt. They are decent relative to Nakhla, with the peach being the poorest of the 3 and Melon being the best. The double apple is a classic flavour however I feel it is better captured with other brands. Nakhla's is 'different' but again these are such opinions. For them to 'deserve respect' is another statement that you're pulling out of nowhere. Come to think of it, perhaps they deserve better respect than you as they haven't come out to try to attack me.

[quote]You said your smoke was harsh/not smooth, and all I can tell you is that my Tangiers smoke, when I've got it going properly, IS smooth. Blame your technique, blame the gods, curse satan's name, or criticize the tobacco for its low user-friendliness factor, but don't try telling us from your two sessions of experience you've concluded that the smoke in its ideal form is not smooth [/quote]

I don't blame anything other than the fact that either
a) you like to suck up to the Tangiers brand, perhaps hoping for some freebies.
Perhaps you are more satisfied with mediocrity than I am

or perhaps even, as a long shot

c) you have an opinion different to mine, which I'd accept if you showed a little respect to me, rather than a bunch of tobacco mixed with molasses :idea:

As for the 'two sessions', they have since become a couple more, and I can safely say that the Tangiers green apple is crap. I've got it smoking, it's not burnt and I can taste it's flavour, but the whole thing is not to my taste.

One man's crap is another man's gold and I'm sure Tangiers will not be selling tobacco had there not been fans of it. Heck, Fumari have at least 10 flavourless smokes and some Layalina flavours are a joke to say the least but they still get sold. Fortunately, it's mixed reviews that help people make their minds up. Not simply one keyboard warrior wanting his favourite brand elevated to the stars.



@Sonthert.

Thank you for your response. I still find the humidity shock thing bizarre as I have discussed this with a couple of hardened smokers and one guy who's worked in shisha lounges for 15 years and it's never really been an issue. Tobacco drying out 'going off' so to speak, if it is left out for too long, tends to be rather poor to smoke. Generally, the tobacco is left in the condition it came in, and not exposed to air as much as possible, for it to remain in the same flavour. This has always for years produced great smokes, and to get some fresh theories are always welcome, but generally there was nothing 'broke' to 'fix' proverbially speaking.

Cigars are different and need to retain their moisture for it to have the optimum taste. M3assal is made fresh and packed, hence retaining freshness and taste. Surely this is the state that one would like to smoke it as fresher tobacco has always tasted better. I'm not sure why you have decided to pioneer a change.

I am always up for anything and followed the instructions on this board and with the pack. I have also noticed no difference having smoked it prior and post leaving it out.

I (from a personal viewpoint) am curious about the reviews it has, and have asked for your tobacco with the strongest flavour so that I can order some. Which do you think does the Tangiers brand justice. (I realise personal taste is an issue, but flavour strength is measurable). The only thing I cannot stand are flavours like Rose, Jasmine or Orange.

Many thanks.

[cymptom]

I think you're misunderstanding me a bit -- I have no problem with anyone criticizing Tangiers tobacco. I have criticisms myself -- I've never been able to get a good smooth smoke out of Red Tea, Raspberry or Grape, but at the same time I've had amazing experiences with many other flavors. What I'm criticizing is the way you've written and concluded this review -- it could be a review of any brand and I'd take the same issue, but I happen to be here because Tangiers is currently my main brand and it's the brand I know best, so if someone condemns the whole line of tobacco from their experience with one flavor I feel it's my responsiblity to voice disagreement with their premature judgment. Were I to judge Tangiers tobacco from my experience with certain flavors, or even from my first 10 so or attempts to smoke it, it would have been a very potentially misleading review. Like I said, a criticism of Tangiers tobacco for its lack of user-friendliness or of the Green Apple flavor in particular would be well founded enough -- but you "stepped over the line" by slandering the whole line of tobacco and suggesting that Tangiers himself has built up hype by misleading his consumers.

As I said in my last post, I mention the popular opinion only to point out that in order to form a credible argument against popular opinion, you need to have ample experience with what you're talking about. You need to have made an honest attempt to understand exactly what the hype is about, even if you suspect the hype is misleading. I guess what I'm really talking about here is a scientific methodology, and although I'm sure everyone is rolling their eyes right now thinking that this is silly to apply here at a hookah forum, it's really just common sense with some common ethical implications. You can be stubborn or hasty and, despite the possibility of error, try to make broad definitive conclusions, or you can reserve judgment until you've acquired enough evidence to suggest something objective about whatever it is you're reviewing. And even then, there is hardly means to find justification of claims that Tangiers has encouraged a reputation of 'complexity' surrounding his tobacco as some kind of tool for building hype. I myself am not convinced that humidity shock is significant, or even that it exists, but I'm not about to deny it either.

As for me hugging Tangiers' nuts, thanks, but no thanks. I'm on this forum to find significance in other peoples' experiences, and it's a sort of responsibility to give back to the community by sharing my own. Tangiers is my main brand and it's a hot topic, so I feel it's the most significant experience that I have to share. Of course, I also appreciate a lot of what Tangiers is doing for the world of western hookah smoking -- his bowl and tobacco design are among few innovations since hookah has become popular in the west -- and I'm glad to be able to offer my experience primarily as support of a brand I'd like to see continue to develop. Your accusation that I'm sucking up to Tangiers to win his favor or some freebies is uncalled for -- my support is founded in my experience, and I speak in general terms because I've tried and experimented with maybe half the flavors.

I really don't care if you don't like the tobacco, there are plenty of people on the forum who don't. In the end I think it's only for those who either, for whatever reason, never have trouble getting it to smoke to their liking, or those who deem it worthwhile to invest time and money messing around with it. My criticism is directed at the way in which you've presented yourself and your experience. You keep suggesting that I've attacked you, but my first response was only to suggest that you give it another shot. I believe you began the hostility and ranting at the suggestion that your experience might not be telling of the whole line of tobacco. Now you've said that "Tangiers green apple is crap," which is fine by me, if that's how you want to write your shisha reviews. So long as you're simply stating your experience without trying to draw broad conclusions about the quality of the brand.

[SanguineSolitude]

amen to cymptom. and mo, ive got nothing against you but youre being a dick. all this talk of nuthugging is unneccessary especially since cymptom wasnt even being rude to you. step off the throne for a mo and cool down.

[Johnny_D]

FYI : I have never smoked Tangiers and have no personal opinion on it.

This argument could go on until the end of time. In fact i believe it was a similar argument that killed the dinosaurs.

The bottom line here is : Personal Taste.

I love Nahkla. I pray to Nahkla and want it to have my babies. Why? I like the frigging taste!

Everyone is entitled to there opinion. There are plenty here that think that Nahkla blows. There are those that love Hookah Hookah :?

The point being is that maybe it's time to step down from this pointless debate.

King Mo has the balls to fly in the face of popular convention.
Others disagree.

JD

[EvansLight]

im not gonna write a long post cause i more or less agree with cymptoms post. I personally dont take bad reviews against my favorite brand bad, which is currently al waha, but when a person bases how they think of the whole brand off one flavour, then i take it bad. Jumping to conclusions off one experience is something that is one of my pet peeves

Also amount and strength of flavour is something you can measure, but not by using your own body as the measurment instrument. Each person smells and tastes diffrently, and also has diffrent levels of tollerance to flavour, and can pick up on lighter ones easier. Saying that tangiers has a lack of flavour as a statement is false, its only your opinion.

But enough from me, i think too much has been said already. We wanted to make sure that you had everything right with tangiers because alot of us love it and want others to experience what we have, and you instantly jumped on us as being tangiers whores, and didnt listen to what we had to say, only criticized what we had to say because it went against your opinion.

[King Mo]

[quote name='cymptom']I think you're misunderstanding me a bit -- I have no problem with anyone criticizing Tangiers tobacco. I have criticisms myself -- I've never been able to get a good smooth smoke out of Red Tea, Raspberry or Grape, but at the same time I've had amazing experiences with many other flavors. What I'm criticizing is the way you've written and concluded this review -- it could be a review of any brand and I'd take the same issue, but I happen to be here because Tangiers is currently my main brand and it's the brand I know best, so if someone condemns the whole line of tobacco from their experience with one flavor I feel it's my responsiblity to voice disagreement with their premature judgment. Were I to judge Tangiers tobacco from my experience with certain flavors, or even from my first 10 so or attempts to smoke it, it would have been a very potentially misleading review. Like I said, a criticism of Tangiers tobacco for its lack of user-friendliness or of the Green Apple flavor in particular would be well founded enough -- but you "stepped over the line" by slandering the whole line of tobacco and suggesting that Tangiers himself has built up hype by misleading his consumers.  

As I said in my last post, I mention the popular opinion only to point out that in order to form a credible argument against popular opinion, you need to have ample experience with what you're talking about. You need to have made an honest attempt to understand exactly what the hype is about, even if you suspect the hype is misleading. I guess what I'm really talking about here is a scientific methodology, and although I'm sure everyone is rolling their eyes right now thinking that this is silly to apply here at a hookah forum, it's really just common sense with some common ethical implications. You can be stubborn or hasty and, despite the possibility of error, try to make broad definitive conclusions, or you can reserve judgment until you've acquired enough evidence to suggest something objective about whatever it is you're reviewing. And even then, there is hardly means to find justification of claims that Tangiers has encouraged a reputation of 'complexity' surrounding his tobacco as some kind of tool for building hype. I myself am not convinced that humidity shock is significant, or even that it exists, but I'm not about to deny it either.  

As for me hugging Tangiers' nuts, thanks, but no thanks. I'm on this forum to find significance in other peoples' experiences, and it's a sort of responsibility to give back to the community by sharing my own. Tangiers is my main brand and it's a hot topic, so I feel it's the most significant experience that I have to share. Of course, I also appreciate a lot of what Tangiers is doing for the world of western hookah smoking -- his bowl and tobacco design are among few innovations since hookah has become popular in the west -- and I'm glad to be able to offer my experience primarily as support of a brand I'd like to see continue to develop. Your accusation that I'm sucking up to Tangiers to win his favor or some freebies is uncalled for -- my support is founded in my experience, and I speak in general terms because I've tried and experimented with maybe half the flavors.

I really don't care if you don't like the tobacco, there are plenty of people on the forum who don't. In the end I think it's only for those who either, for whatever reason, never have trouble getting it to smoke to their liking, or those who deem it worthwhile to invest time and money messing around with it. My criticism is directed at the way in which you've presented yourself and your experience. You keep suggesting that I've attacked you, but my first response was only to suggest that you give it another shot. I believe you began the hostility and ranting at the suggestion that your experience might not be telling of the whole line of tobacco. Now you've said that "Tangiers green apple is crap," which is fine by me, if that's how you want to write your shisha reviews. So long as you're simply stating your experience without trying to draw broad conclusions about the quality of the brand.[/quote]

Listen, I'm not sure whether you are playing some martyr here, but in your third post to me, I had a problem with your attitude and I expressed it. Your first post was not an issue to me and neither was the second.

The guy I was referring to who mentioned the 'polls' was in fact Evans light, who's posts are as numerous as they are insignificant.
[i] (In fact, why did Evans light even contribute at the end there? perhaps you want to reach a million posts and get a certificate?. I prefer to see quality rather than quantity and have historically contributed to the forum with my own insights. I couldn't care less what pet peeve you have, and if you want to criticise points, then discuss in a manner worthy of a response, or you won't get one.)[/i]

I haven't attacked anybody in this post until Cymptom responded assuming I was referring to him (which wasn't a baseless assumption as it was easy to think that, but didn't justify the attitude which I felt was rather disrespectful).

Talk of stepping over the line, finding something to blame other than the tobacco and other comments within that post were worthy of criticism from me as I felt the tone wasn't right. It's one thing criticising brands, tobaccos etc, and it's another adopting a tone that is bordering on the mocking.

Your final post isn't contentious so I haven't discussed that. King Mo is very specific when his tone becomes stronger.

My post remains as a paying customer who did not get value for money when it came to Tangiers. (I won't even get started on the Starbuzz cherry which was ridiculous, and another brand subject to much hype).

@Sanguine - When you have the capability of understanding context, perhaps it will be a sign that you have matured. I suggest reading my posts carefully rather than mention 'dicks' which may be on your mind. Show disrespect and King Mo will respond in kind.

As for Tangiers, is there any flavour which is unversally liked amongst the many people that love the brand? Which part of 'i'm willing to try another flavour in my next order' do some of you not understand.

Best Wishes

HRH

[Joseph]

[quote name='EvansLight']Also amount and strength of flavour is something you can measure, but not by using your own body as the measurment instrument. Each person smells and tastes diffrently, and also has diffrent levels of tollerance to flavour, and can pick up on lighter ones easier. Saying that tangiers has a lack of flavour as a statement is false, its only your opinion.  [/quote]

Thats not a trivial point, I agree completly. what tastes strong and rich to one person tastes weak and mild to another. I think I may have killed some taste buds over the years because some people will think a food or shisha (yes, I call the tobacco shisha, as most people do in the USA) is strong, but I don't., I am always looking for a strong flavor, but even nakhla's double apple does not seem to have super strong anise to me, but others say the anise is overpowering. My point is, you say flavor strength is testable, but it is not. Any thing measured by the senses is subjective. In science, we call this a qualitative measurment. Saying a flavor is strong, or something is "pink" is qualitative. If something is quantitative it is measured, like using a spectrophotometer to measure the absorbance of a substance instead of syaing its color. My overall point is, you can't say a tobacco is weak to everyone, just that it is weak to you. Saying the tangiers is not for people who like strong and rich flavor is not acurite, it is acurite to say you don't find it to be strong or rich, which is perfectly legitimate. Try not to confuse qualitative measurments with quantitative measurements.

And I find Evans posts to be helpful, as well as the chat he kindly set up for us.

[skiracerj1]

Well to try and put this all behind us, because lets face it this has become a third grade playground argument of "your the jerk" "uh huh, your the jerk", I'll recommend a flavor. Since you dont seem to like the florals (rose, jasmine, ect...) that rules out tangiers' kashmir peach, which is the most universally excepted I feel, but floral people dont take well to it. If your looking for a realistic fruit flavor I've had good luck with pinneapple and melon blend. If your accepting of the not so realistic but still amazingly delicious candy flavors I would suggest trying his watermelon, it tastes exactly like bubblicious watermelon gum. Also Lemon Lime is a really good flavor in that category. No brand really has an entire universal flavor, different tastes, but thos given are some of my personal favorites and seem to be the favorites of my fellow smokers. Oh also, a not so talked about flavor that me and my friends absolutely love is apricot spring blend, its not floral like you would think. Anyways sorry for so many suggestions, but anyone of those should work depending on your tastes. Hope this helps

[SanguineSolitude]

kashmir peach is usually well liked. i also quite like his guava flavor. as im sure you know having smoked shisha "for years before all of us" there arent really any universally liked flavors since taste is subjective.



by the way nice gay joke, i remember asserting my authority with those back before my balls dropped. or was that inserting? i cant quite remember, but im sure you could tell me, being as well versed on the subject as you are. (in case you missed it that was clever, maybe a bit subtle for you)

[King Mo]

@Skiracer, I have no problem with any discussion, but with a net forum, things generally can get easily carried away due to the nature of the relative anonymity of it all. I always keep discussions on a level playing field. At the end of the day, I'm not here to impress a member with some ass-kissing or to try to score cheap points on other avenues. I may have been harsh with tangiers, but when the hype is so strong, yet what seems to be a standard flavour is so disappointing, I'm entitled to give my opinion without people getting offended (a quite ridiculous consequence). Keep things cool, things stay cool, start getting silly, I'll be blunt and to the point. Not all of us can accumulate thousands of posts in short spaces of time as some people tend to use the Internet occasionally rather than 25 hours a day, 8 days a week. If someone makes a waste of space post.

Your recommendations seem interesting. For Watermelon, the Fumari watermelon is ridiculously good (without hours of humidity customisation) and if the Tangiers is compareable it may be worth a shot. I can somewhat tolerate peach flavours and have found fumari white peach and Romman or al waha peach very good.

For universal flavours, there are a number which people smoke without having any problems (As long as the shisha is clean and packed adequately). Regular Grape fakher as well as Nakhla double apple are flavours which the majority of shisha smokers you come across find good and have a pretty universal appeal. Grape fakher for example is by far the most popular fakher amongst most arabs in the gulf and is almost synonymous with a 'fakher shisha'. Nakhla double apple is the standard in Egypt and when I went there it was probably the most popular (followed perhaps by nakhla cantaloupe).

Watermelon sounds interesting so may give it a shot. Anyone else got a view on that flavour (if you've smoked Green apple then perhaps your input will be even more appreciated).

(@ Sanguine, yes you are very clever, clearly your education precedes you; I suggest you use your time more effectively rather raise the chances of my ignoring you).

[skiracerj1]

King Mo, the kashmir peach is more of a spicy floral peach than a true peach, if u want a true peach get his juicy peach, but his watermelon is one of his best, jsut dont expect a realy watermelon fruit taste, more like a watermelon bubble gum or jolly racher candy.

edit: i do howver have to disagree with double apple as a universal flavor, about half my friends like it and the other half hate it because it tastes like black licorice to them, so again, to each his own I suppose, but so far everyone I've smoked the watermelon with has liked it, so its pretty close to a universal flavor i feel.

[Joseph]

Well, as for universal appeal, I know at least as many people, if not more, who hate nakhla double apple and any other double apple, because they can't stand anise. I love it, but many of my friends refuse to smoke it with me.

[King Mo]

pretty much everyone who smokes a shisha first time will find the double apple acceptable. Certain flavours, like rose for example may get a negative reaction, from general observatin (here in London which is very touristy and very much contains alot of arab places) as well as in the middle east, Double apple is like a standard.

It's like chewing gum. If someone offers you mint chewing gum, it's such a standard thing that the majority will have it if they want some gum. If the gum was perhaps an odd flavour, then it may be rejected.

Nakhla double apple I feel is a 'standard' flavour that is tolerable by most. Perhaps tolerable is a better word.

[EvansLight]

i personally hate it, and in my experience most people i smoke with wont smoke it either. Once again, your over generalising

[King Mo]

as a side note on the tangiers green apple. I have found it helpful to use two foils. Double foils have been very useful in preventing tobacco from burning.

Still a poor flavour though for the 'great tangiers'.

It's amazing how much a stir it has caused to criticise tangiers (no matter which angle you look at it). In the past the board was alot more impartial.

Will see what seems good, at the moment the watermelon is a front-runner for my final test of tangiers.

[EvansLight]

as ive said i dont give two shakes if u dont like tangiers its your opinion, i just dont like damming a whole brand off one flavour. its just not your flavour, we get that, oh well i just dont like over generalising, one of my pet peeves. Also not all tangiers flavours are massive in your face flavours. Lime isnt, but its still a good mixer and good flavour, even though its a light one. Red tea was in your face, and licorice is in the middle. Not every flavour in any brand is in your face

But if you want to try more, i love licorice, but as i said its not an ultra strong flavour, but its very good to me.

[skiracerj1]

instead of double foiling try using less coal, that was somethin i struggled with when i first smoked it, tangiers seems to only need about 1/3 the heat of other brands, and also i've noticed it works better with a japanese style coal instead of a finger style, quick lites seem to do the trick as well. Also I dont know if you fill your bowls to the top or not, but with tangiers, for whatever reason, filing it till it touches the foil is a must. From the sounds of it though you have gotten it to smoke right and just dont like the flavor which is respectable, but just thought I'd share some experiences which I've had with tangiers. One other thing, a thread a while back had someone grinding the rather coarse tangiers cut down into a more al fahker type cut using a commercially available herb grinder, they said it worked great, so perhaps give that a try next time as well. Regardless I hope whatever tangiers flavor u choose next works out better than green apple for you, because I have had wonderful results with the stuff.