Some words on Tangiers Green apple.

[King Mo]

I was referring to the board, not specifically to you. Positive input is appreciated, your personal 'shake giving' is not my concern.

[EvansLight]

ok your review on tangiers was more of an attack. it wasnt simply saying you didnt like a flavour, you took the hype as meaning that no matter what this had to be something YOU liked. It wasnt, and so you simply attacked tangiers tobacco. If it had been a decent review, no just bashing, alot like Calcartmans review, which he DIDNT like the tobacco, then i bet ya it wouldnt have been reacted to the way it was.

[quote]I hear quotes like 'tangiers' it's not for everyone, and I have to agree. It is not for people who enjoy rich smoke and strong flavour.[/quote]

Your intial posts are over generalisations, and that because YOU didnt get a good smoke than other wont, and YOU didnt get flavour strong enough for you so others wont. You based your position on tangiers as a brand that isnt as good as others make it out to be off ONE flavour.

[King Mo]

focus on your own reaction, and do not react for others.

You use the polls as a basis for some of your comments, yet the polls are of an insignificant number. If it was in the hundreds then fair enough, otherwise, you may well be using some general opinions and making a generalisation that tangiers is a fantastic tobacco due to a small number of people liking it.

You are not responsible for other's posts, and if everyone cleans up their own mess, then the world will function better (metaphorically speaking).

The post title is not 'TANGIERS is garbagE', it was 'Some words on Tangiers green apple. Seeing as some people feel that tangiers is just too amazing to contemplate (because a dozen people like it in a poll), then if tangiers can produce something that I feel is very poor, it does reflect badly on the brand. This is consumer power for you.

Now, if you step back from the tangiers bandwagon a little and use your own mind a little, you'll find that my overall post was attacking the flavour, and the comments like the one you quoted in the last post, were rather tongue in cheek and rather light hearted. Then again, you're too blinded by your own pre-conceptions that tangiers is divine to realise this.

People make general statements and generalisations all the time, I reiterate that you are guilty yourself of contributing by referring to such a small poll which actually means little. Hypocrisy is evident as as such your pet peeve may exist because it is something prevalent within your own outbursts.

Look at my topic title. Look at the hype. Look at SOME people's reactions (maybe 5 people) rather than 'generalising' to think it applies to all humanity.

King Mo has a saying. 'It is Context that separates the Mature, from the Immature'.

Now, kindly either realise what I'm saying and stop trying to increase your post count with hypocritical ramblings, or contribute to the topic in a respectful manner (note I did not force my opinon upon anyone, nor personally disrespect any member without them making personal comments).

I cannot simplify any further. If you still cannot contribute positively, then there is no hope for you.

[Scalliwag]

nice tagline EL!!!

[Sonthert]

In fact, I would not say there was one flavor that transcends all others, becasue I make a variety of flavors for a variety of tastes. I certainly would, in no way, call the Green Apple a universal flavor. Tangiers Green Apple is definitely more enigmatic than other green apples. Its different, right? Thats the idea. I like making things that live outside peoples expectations...always a surprise. If green apple is definitely not your flavor, melon blend might be the right choice, but I make no guarantees. As unhappy as you are with green apple, perhaps you should just stick to your normal brands. If its not for you, its not for you. No hard feelings. I will say this, again, perhaps you haven't seen it: Tangiers is not all things for all people. Simple. Sascha orderd some of my stuff from Germany. He hates my regular apple, but many people love it. There is no such thing as a universal flavor. If I could develop a flavor that everybody loved, I would. Of course, you can't please all the people none of the time...a conventional American wisdom.

Side point, Mo, in fact the tobacco is manufactured differently than other brands...from the tobacco in the base to the flavorings in it. Tangiers Tobacco drying out is not a problem. Most brands on the market are very high in residual water/volatiles content...hence they dry out as the water/volatiles evaporate. I believe 30-50% water/volatile content is a fair estimate for almost every brand aside from Tangiers and Bahraini... I did one such test on a flavor of mine that would have a very high volatile content, mint, and it was only 11% volatile materials. These volatile materials on Tangiers are nothing that will be missed, but losing 35-50% of the weight of the tobacco due to evaporation will make an impact on the quality and the flavor. I do take exception to the fact that you question the quality of the tobacco manufactured. Liking it or not doesn't affect the quality of the tobacco in question. Al Majlis is one of the best imports on the market for quality, but most people hate it for taste.

As for the price, if you compare the volume of tobacco you get (as opposed to the weight) Tangiers offers to pack more bowls than other brands, due to their high water/volatiles composition. There is more tobacco leaf per Kg of Tangiers than in other brands.

Good to see you around, Mo. Glad to see you posting.

I think Mo's comments are completely fair.
You only get one chance to make a first impression.

Can everybody stop the name calling, whether clever and erudite or plain and brutish? Thats from the moderator, not the Tangiers guy.

P.S. As to the question of things being impartial around here, there are three other moderators and a site admin. I have never banned anybody...I welcome opposing viewpoints. The other guys are far more protective of decorum around here. I was offered the job of moderator and I said "why not put it up for a vote instead, let the users decide?" so the Admin had an election. If the other users had by and large thought I wasn't going to be fair and impartial, I wouldn't be moderator. I could have been the only moderator and a royal prick, deleting, banning and editing as I arbitrarily felt, but thats not the kind of person I am. In fact, the impartiality that you are seeking I have worked for the entire time I have been here. Anybody wants to call bullshit on me, please feel free. (I'll ban ya! Joking! Little joke, people!)

[[LB]]

GODDD all these posts are soooo long, who has the time to read it all? not me- but anyways welcome back king mo and give tangiers time, it takes a while to get it going right, but once you do it go-so-good. I havent tried green apple so i dunno. Listen to what the man says though, just keep giving it a try and youll be very satisfied. PLus it will give you a buzz to remember, like a killer buzz cause its unwashed. I think you shoulda started with a more standard tangiers flavor, it is definently a different smoke than standard brands, not in a bad or good way its just different. Happy hunting.

P.S AF grape is one of my favs too.

[SanguineSolitude]

yes. i was mainly calling names out of a childish attempt to be funnny. my appologies good sirs.

[King Mo]

[quote name='Sonthert']In fact, I would not say there was one flavor that transcends all others, becasue I make a variety of flavors for a variety of tastes. I certainly would, in no way, call the Green Apple a universal flavor. Tangiers Green Apple is definitely more enigmatic than other green apples. Its different, right? Thats the idea. I like making things that live outside peoples expectations...always a surprise. If green apple is definitely not your flavor, melon blend might be the right choice, but I make no guarantees. As unhappy as you are with green apple, perhaps you should just stick to your normal brands. If its not for you, its not for you. No hard feelings. I will say this, again, perhaps you haven't seen it: Tangiers is not all things for all people. Simple. Sascha orderd some of my stuff from Germany. He hates my regular apple, but many people love it. There is no such thing as a universal flavor. If I could develop a flavor that everybody loved, I would. Of course, you can't please all the people none of the time...a conventional American wisdom.

Side point, Mo, in fact the tobacco is manufactured differently than other brands...from the tobacco in the base to the flavorings in it. Tangiers Tobacco drying out is not a problem. Most brands on the market are very high in residual water/volatiles content...hence they dry out as the water/volatiles evaporate. I believe 30-50% water/volatile content is a fair estimate for almost every brand aside from Tangiers and Bahraini... I did one such test on a flavor of mine that would have a very high volatile content, mint, and it was only 11% volatile materials. These volatile materials on Tangiers are nothing that will be missed, but losing 35-50% of the weight of the tobacco due to evaporation will make an impact on the quality and the flavor. I do take exception to the fact that you question the quality of the tobacco manufactured. Liking it or not doesn't affect the quality of the tobacco in question. Al Majlis is one of the best imports on the market for quality, but most people hate it for taste.  

As for the price, if you compare the volume of tobacco you get (as opposed to the weight) Tangiers offers to pack more bowls than other brands, due to their high water/volatiles composition. There is more tobacco leaf per Kg of Tangiers than in other brands.  

Good to see you around, Mo. Glad to see you posting.  

I think Mo's comments are completely fair.  
You only get one chance to make a first impression.  

Can everybody stop the name calling, whether clever and erudite or plain and brutish? Thats from the moderator, not the Tangiers guy.

P.S. As to the question of things being impartial around here, there are three other moderators and a site admin. I have never banned anybody...I welcome opposing viewpoints. The other guys are far more protective of decorum around here. I was offered the job of moderator and I said "why not put it up for a vote instead, let the users decide?" so the Admin had an election. If the other users had by and large thought I wasn't going to be fair and impartial, I wouldn't be moderator. I could have been the only moderator and a royal prick, deleting, banning and editing as I arbitrarily felt, but thats not the kind of person I am. In fact, the impartiality that you are seeking I have worked for the entire time I have been here. Anybody wants to call bullshit on me, please feel free. (I'll ban ya! Joking! Little joke, people!)[/quote]

Your posts have been impartial thusfar, and as such I haven't had any complaints about your conduct as a mod. In fact, your attitude is such that I was willing to try another one of your products as perhaps the Green apple was not a fair reflection. (other than the first post which was attacking the hype, I have reiterated this on more than one occasion). If Tangiers was rubbish, then clearly I'd be an idiot to be open to trying another flavour (a popular flavour).

The thing which was a slight concern, was that due to your position as a mod and the brand which you represent, other members may either be friends with you or will be trying to impress you by defending your tobacco to the death

In the past (I'm not sure where the post has gone, perhaps disappeared in the upgrades) I must've done at least 30 or 40 reviews on this site about different flavours. Many brands have good or bad flavours. I supose it works against me that the majority of people haven't seen me post before (judging by their registration dates) and are not aware that I am pretty straight with most of the stuff I rate. I disliked a number of fumari flavours but loved the watermelon. I like a number of Fakher flavours, but despised the Pineapple. I didn't like a number of Romman flavours but enjoyed the lemon and others. Etc etc.

I'll make another order soon which will include another tangiers flavour. (maybe 2 if I can think of another one) and will describe my experience. Perhaps I'll even try out that interesting looking bowl as well.

In the mean time, I suggest people don't fly off the handle simply because their beloved brand is insulted, as it arouses suspicion. Getting personal on a forum should be avoided if the quality of the forum is to remain at an adequate level.

[Sonthert]

You don't have to explain to me man...I've known you as long as I have been coming around here. I respect you and your opinion immensely. You and the old users gave me the love and passion that I have for this place that makes me read almost every post...like 98%...maybe 97%. Good or bad, you helped make me who I am here.

I collect Single Malt Scotch and books regarding the subject. Almost any author writing a scotch book will tell you "There is no best scotch, people have very different tastes." Good thing, too...most of the single-malts I like everybody else hates. Good luck with the next batch...love to convert ya, won't die if I don't.

[King Mo]

Thanks for the response.

Didn't see the point of opening a new thread as every other topic seems to be tangiers related, so will continue here.

What is Red Tea, and does it taste anything like normal tea, does it have sweetness?

What is F line? Does that smoke differently? Is it worth a shot?

What is good about the funnel design bowl (other than alleged cleanliness), does it smoke worse?

I like flavours to be a little on the sweet side and rich. So will base my next order accordingly.

a decent answer is appreciated.

[Joseph]

LOL, we must be on differant forums if you think the majority (greater than 50%) of threads are about tangiers. I just looked over the first page of threads, and the majority of the topics were not about tangiers.

[skiracerj1]

king mo- I own the phunnel bowl and its medium worth it, on the one hand you have to use alot of shisha to fill the bowl (its huge) but it does make the shisha last forever (i've gotten six hour sessions out of the thing) so in the end its more of a party bowl than a personel bowl. As far as the way it smokes you cant tell the difference between it and any other bowl really, just the flavor and smoke lasts longer.

The red tea is definately not a sweet flavor but more of soft warm tea drinking sensation if u will. I think based on how you described your tastes that either some watermelon or melon blend is right up your alley.

Hope this helps

[King Mo]

:shock: @ Joseph, I realise you may want to increase your post count, but I'd rather you do it in circumstances where I have not requested a specific answer to a specific question. Your posts in this thread have all been irritatingly timed to detract from the main topic.

for example: [color="red"]Joseph in this thread[/color]

[quote]Nakhla has some great flavors, people just don't like it because of its price. Some feel that if a tobacco is lower cost, than it must be inferior. This is completely false. Their double apple is by far one of the best, and there melon is another great one. Waha and nakhla are two of my favorites, so in my opinion they are two of the best, and depending on my mood I often vote for one of the two in polls.

(King Mo :  I don't care if Nakhla has great flavours, I have not actually mentioned their flavours and I was simply illustrating another point, see my saying on Context earlier in this thread)

I always have some nakhla sweet melon and double apple around. No one does those flavors better than nakhla.

(King Mo: Ok, we get it, you are in to Nakhla, Nobody is shooting you for that)


Thats not a trivial point, I agree completly. what tastes strong and rich to one person tastes weak and mild to another. I think I may have killed some taste buds over the years because some people will think a food or shisha (yes, I call the tobacco shisha, as most people do in the USA) is strong, but I don't., I am always looking for a strong flavor, but even nakhla's double apple does not seem to have super strong anise to me, but others say the anise is overpowering. My point is, you say flavor strength is testable, but it is not. Any thing measured by the senses is subjective. In science, we call this a qualitative measurment. Saying a flavor is strong, or something is "pink" is qualitative. If something is quantitative it is measured, like using a spectrophotometer to measure the absorbance of a substance instead of syaing its color. My overall point is, you can't say a tobacco is weak to everyone, just that it is weak to you. Saying the tangiers is not for people who like strong and rich flavor is not acurite, it is acurite to say you don't find it to be strong or rich, which is perfectly legitimate. Try not to confuse qualitative measurments with quantitative measurements.

(King Mo:  Taste is similar to smell. Usually if you stand behind a garbage truck, I'm sure you can describe the smell as strong without people arguing with you that Garbage is relative to the smell capability of the individual, and perhaps someone with bad breath may be accustomed to such smells. There's pedantic, then there's just plain silly)

And I find Evans posts to be helpful, as well as the chat he kindly set up for us.

(King Mo: you can praise him via a private message or on MSN or something. Perhaps you are praising him because his posts in this thread have been as pointless as yours)

Well, as for universal appeal, I know at least as many people, if not more, who hate nakhla double apple and any other double apple, because they can't stand anise. I love it, but many of my friends refuse to smoke it with me.

(King Mo : I was simply asking for a generally liked Tangiers flavour, I want to give this brand a chance, yet people like you keep coming up with pointless deviations and interruptions)[/quote]

Now, I'd appreciate a lack of a response, so that hopefully someone more helpful can actually give a response. Take a look at Sontherts posts in this thread for example.

You may think I'm being unfairly harsh, but at the end of the day, if [b]you[/b] had some questions, I'd try to answer them for you rather than jump on your thread with some irrelevent outbursts.

[i]Here's my questions again.[/i]

What is Red Tea, and does it taste anything like normal tea, does it have sweetness?

What is F line? Does that smoke differently? Is it worth a shot?

What is good about the funnel design bowl (other than alleged cleanliness), does it smoke worse?

I like flavours to be a little on the sweet side and rich. So will base my next order accordingly.

thanks in advance for any responses
:wink:

[King Mo]

[quote name='skiracerj1']king mo- I own the phunnel bowl and its medium worth it, on the one hand you have to use alot of shisha to fill the bowl (its huge) but it does make the shisha last forever (i've gotten six hour sessions out of the thing) so in the end its more of a party bowl than a personel bowl. As far as the way it smokes you cant tell the difference between it and any other bowl really, just the flavor and smoke lasts longer.

The red tea is definately not a sweet flavor but more of soft warm tea drinking sensation if u will. I think based on how you described your tastes that either some watermelon or melon blend is right up your alley.

Hope this helps[/quote]

Thanks for the response.

in terms of the amount of tobacco used, how much more would you say it uses than say a standard mya bowl.

Also, is it too big for a QT shisha (if you have used them) or will I need to use my bigger shisha.

As for the red tea, it tastes like regular black tea?? Would you say it is a flavour that you can clearly taste, or is it simply tobacco with a subtle tea-like taste. Flavour sounds intriguing tbh but want to be sure.

I may well get melon blend otherwise.

[skiracerj1]

Its not too big for a qt, as i use it on one, as for amount its around 50g of shisha approx. The red tea is a black tea i belive, tangiers just called it red tea to not confuse it with another of his flavors. Also I forgot, in response to your original post, the F-line is caffinated shisha, and thats pretty much the only difference, no noticable difference in flavor and smoke though.

[DizzyGuy]

If you don't wanna use that much shisha... you might want to wait for the smaller size to come out. Hopefully that will only be in a week or so depending on the chinese midget that tangiers employes

[King Mo]

hmm, interesting info. 50g of tobacco sounds a little like overkill. I like shisha little and often and regularly change flavours. May still pick it up though but at least I'll know a little about it.

Finally, and I do appreciate the responses, is the Caffeine something you feel in the F-line? will it get your pulse up?
is the Red tea a 'strong flavour' in your opinion, or does the flavour feel weak to you. Same for the melon blend (if you've tried it)

many thanks

[skiracerj1]

The caffine does seem to up the buzz level a little, and it does get your heart goin a little, but nothin to bad, like a cup or two of coffee really. The red tea is a strong flavor, but subtle too, if that makes any sense, i mean you can tell what your smoking and its a pleasing sensation, its not really a over the top flavor. The melon blend is a WOW in your face kinda flavor, stongest flavor I've had, just it may seem tart to some.

[EvansLight]

red tea is a hard tea flavour, not a sweet tea

fline is caffeinated and i havent tried it

the funnel bowl is all its hyped to be. It takes a lil getting used to, but ive had 7 hour sessions (our one last night lasted that long, and we smoke constantly) and great flavour. Ive burned through a roll and a half of 3Kings with it. It also keeps the juice in the tobacco and gives more flavour longer.

[TJ Perry]

Mo, you're saying everything I said a few weeks ago and I got flamed to death.

It doesn't smoke "smooth" regardless of the hype on these forums and what it says to the buyers. It's not strong to me, it's harsh. Zangoul is strong. This is different.

[Sonthert]

The difference is, King Mo made salient, intelligent points and then moved on, admittedly a litlle rough in places, but I attribute this to his rhetorical style. You don't leave things alone, you have to keep picking and picking. I think thats what really sets people off regarding your posts. I also think your personal, petty points regarding other people on the forum were far, far more annoying to the average person who complained about your posts. I know I am getting sick of hearing you say the same negative things over and over again. Why did you expect people not to flame you when you repeat yourself and having nothing positive to say?

[King Mo]

I am not sure why you got flamed, but it is rather apparant that some people are perhaps a little touchy when it comes to the tobacco (even moreso than the guy who makes it!).

My intentions are to be constructive, but ultimately, it has to be understood that when I hear of a new brand, and it is given such praise, then as a shisha smoker, I like to try all things and gave it a shot.

I pay 30-40 dollars delivery per order which is substantial, but even more so is the actual time (approx 10 days) with the risk of customs charges. I do look forward to the packages from the states. When you eagerly anticipate something and are disappointed, naturally you'll voice it out.

The tangiers bowl looks rather interesting and I'll probably get a couple (one for me and one for a friend to evaluate), if it's good I'll give it deserving praise. As for the tobacco, I think the F-line sounds risky. I will skip the idea of red tea if it isn't sweet, so melon blend is a clear favourite.

Hopefully will have a few more words yet to say about this tobacco. Jury is out, but be sure I'll start a thread when the time comes.

In the mean time, I think this thread has run its course. Thanks again for the constructive comments of which there are a few in this thread.

[somewhathollow]

[quote name='DarthHookah']personally, tangiers tickles my throat. i can get a good smoke with good flavor, but i cant get very big hits because i cant keep it down.[/quote]

I thought the same thing with my orange soda flavor, but not with the root beer...those are the only 2 I've tried. Great smokes though

[DizzyGuy]

[quote name='somewhathollow'][quote name='DarthHookah']personally, tangiers tickles my throat. i can get a good smoke with good flavor, but i cant get very big hits because i cant keep it down.[/quote]

I thought the same thing with my orange soda flavor, but not with the root beer...those are the only 2 I've tried. Great smokes though[/quote]

I actually just smoked Orange Soda last night... First tangiers I've smoked and first serious session with it... I've tried a small sample of Raspberry and it was good.... but this Orange Soda kept on tickling my throat and agitating it so it was hard to smoke :/

[Sonthert]

Orange Soda is a very potent flavor. It is very popular to some people, some people don't like that the tartness. Sorry. You didn't like it, DzG. Same Somewhathollow. Lazy Dayz mentioned that it is his second best selling flavor, now.