King Mo Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Just to clarify something as I've noticed this mistake increasing exponentially. 'Shisha' is the name of the pipe. It is also known as a hookah, or a narghile, or an argeeleh. The tobacco you smoke is known as tobacco, or in arabic, it is referred to as muassal, or m3assal (3 being the arabic letter 'ain' that does not exist in english) If you are getting some dejavu, it is because I had an argument with that Havana salesman weirdo (Dick Bitch or whatever his name was) who created the .net hookahforum prior to his departure from here (amongst other things ) Please do not argue this as I am telling you as a fact, it's up to you to heed the advice or not. It's like people who use the word 'loose' instead of 'lose'. There is no excuse, only a lack of language skills I shall repeat this for emphasis: shisha = hookah = water pipe = hubbly bubble = narghile = argeelah the m3assal is something else and should either be called the molasses (which is the direct arabic translation of m3assal) or tobacco or something similar. When you go to a shisha cafe in most countries, you may find someone say 'can I have a strawberry shisha' Such a statement is made because you will be getting a 'shisha' containing strawberry tobacco in the head. It does not mean the guy will bring you a packet of Nakhla strawberry!! another example: 'What shisha's do you have', implies that you are enquiring which flavours will they serve a shisha with. It does not imply you want the guy to bring you boxes of tobacco!! It makes no difference to me whether some peeps will prefer their ignorance (which it will be upon reading this and continuing in error), or whether some will try to say it properly. Maybe those guys will always be confused, such as those who say 'lose' instead of 'loose' and vice versa www.loseloose.com If you want to enjoy different cultures, at least try to get it semi-right. Makes as much sense as referring to the charcoal as the foil Best Wishes HRH :twisted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[LB] Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 although i appreciate what your saying this is not true. As an arabic student and speaker, i can guarantee you that shisha mean ma'assell in certain dialects. It also happens to mean pipe in egyptian and peninsulan dialect. It depends on where the speaker is from .Nargileh is also a term for the pipe, or Shisha-gorzah, but i can promise you that shisha does in fact mean ma'assell in a few specific dialects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 As an arab I can tell you it is true You can read every single M3assal box you've ever seen to verify this, seeing as you are an arabic student and may be able to read arabic. This is not the only basis mind you, it is a fact. In Pure arabic, M3assal MEANS m3assal, hence the word m3assal. Having also been to Emirates, Egypt, Tunisia, Lebanon with plenty of connections with practically every single middle eastern country King Mo doesn't speak out of his ass. I'm not sure what you have studied at which level but I am a native speaker. I am also not sure what dialect you are referring to because the north africans, the Gulf arabs and the shami dialects all correspond with my comments. All in all, your post is a mistake from all angles. No offence, just don't want people to get confused. I shall repeat what I said from the initial post Please do not argue this as I am telling you as a fact, it's up to you to heed the advice or not. Best wishes HRH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPR234 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 In all honesty, does it matter THAT much? If you start talking to some random arab about shisha, he's gonna have a general idea of what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-bab Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 [quote]In Pure arabic, M3assal MEANS m3assal, hence the word m3assal.[/quote]What do you mean by "pure" arabic? [quote]M3assal MEANS m3assal, hence the word m3assal.[/quote] I don't understand what you are trying to say. A word can't have two different meanings? [quote]Having also been to Emirates, Egypt, Tunisia, Lebanon with plenty of connections with practically every single middle eastern country[/quote] That argument is based on the assumtion that just because you have been to those countries you know that the word Shisha can't have a dual meaning? Weak argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 by pure arabic, standard arabic you would find in a newspaper. EDIT- strictly speaking if you really are interested, the pure arabic word from it is narghile from which argeeleh is derived. The shisha is more general usage though, especially from egypt and north africa. Refers to the pipe. I am talking about the usage of 'shisha' here. The word shisha is used for the pipe. Arabs don't say 'hookah' for a start. It will only be called an argeeleh or a shisha. Now, where on earth can you substantiate what you are saying versus something which any arab will correct you on. if you can't, then kindly do not argue with me over something you clearly are taking long-shots over. You go to any retailer of both 'hookahs' and tobaccos in ANY arab country. If they have any form of literacy, you can ask for a 'shisha' and they will bring you the pipe not the tobacco. There is no confusion in this, only in your head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 @OPR, it is not a big issue, but it is simply in the interests of being correct. Most people want to know about this pastime as it is 'hookahforum'. I simply decided to make a point to help people who would like to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-bab Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 [quote]by pure arabic, standard arabic you would find in a newspaper.[/quote]So you are talking about Modern Standard Arabic. I see. Is the Arabic used in Egyptian newspapers the same as in Lebanese? [quote]Arabs don't say 'hookah' for a start. It will only be called an argeeleh or a shisha.[/quote] we are not discussing "hookah" so that is not relevant. [quote]Now, where on earth can you substantiate what you are saying versus something which any arab will correct you on.[/quote] What is it that i'm saying? I'm just trying to point out your faulty logic. It is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xpimpitox Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 [quote name='King Mo']Please do not argue this as I am telling you as a fact, it's up to you to heed the advice or not.[/quote] if you didnt want your ramblings to be argued, then why the hell did you post them 2 begin with. this is a forum for people to discuss things and state their opinions and yes ARGUE their points. argueing doesnt automatically mean a flame war. people can call it what they want. when it comes to smoking, i personally always ask, who wants to smoke shisha? we all know what we are referring to and thats that. when i got to lounges i say the same thing, "what kind of shisha do you serve?" or "how much do you charge for shisha?" its just a general word we all relate to hookah. the fact that you come in here boasting what your sayin is a fact is an ignorance all your own. you dont have to state your creditentials that you are a native speaker...cangratufuckinlations. as you can see the majority of the people on these boards are not of arab background including myself yet we all share a common passion that is smoking shisha. we do not care for peoples cultural backgrounds...we share a hobby and love to discuss it. /end rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 You must be very easily amused if this is your idea of fun. I have not applied faulty logic, you have simply responded to a sarcastic statement about the m3assal. Your presumption is such that you have missed the point. If you disagree, then by all means give a counter, otherwise, do not rely on nitpicking. As for arabic magazines, they write in arabic. 'fus7a' which is the Standard arabic. This is the same in a lebanese magazine or an egyptian magazine (or newspapers) or a Gulf Magazine. Hopefully this is clear to you. I suggest a more constructive contribution next time than 'owned' or some bizarre twist on 'fun' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[LB] Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 maybe you dont know enough as a native speaker, because what your saying isnt true. I dont think its fair either for you to simply declare your correct, i know that shisha is a term for maa'aassell, i have heard people who speak only arabic use the term themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 [quote name='xpimpitox'][quote name='King Mo'] Please do not argue this as I am telling you as a fact, it's up to you to heed the advice or not.[/quote] if you didnt want your ramblings to be argued, then why the hell did you post them 2 begin with.[/quote] hey pimplechickenpox It was so I could correct someone ignorant like yourself. The post was not for a debate, it was to help your sorry self. You don't want it, then get lost, I didn't force you to read it Perhaps it is 'fun' for you to argue with me. Stating I am a native speaker was for the benefit of LB who was telling me he/she was a student of arabic. Learn to read, and understand that if you do not want to read, then don't post on my thread. You guys must be bored if you need this excitement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 [quote name='[LB']]maybe you dont know enough as a native speaker, because what your saying isnt true. I dont think its fair either for you to simply declare your correct, i know that shisha is a term for maa'aassell, i have heard people who speak only arabic use the term themselves.[/quote] Who told you this, and where did you get it from?? did you learn this as an 'arabic student'?? You do come across some people who think it is called shisha, but this is the reason for this thread, they are a minority who are ignorant of the topic. Most Arabs speak well, some arabs make mistakes. I really suggest researching it more. Shisha is the pipe. If people oversimplify the whole thing due to their own lack of knowledge on the subject, then don't listen to them. I am declaring I am correct, because it is as simple as me telling you that black is not white and vice versa. People who do not know about something, tend to get into semantics and silly arguments. I can say 'I am Tito Ortiz' and debate that for 3 pages comfortably. This doesn't make me right. Don't take any offence, but I don't like issues being confused due to a mistake you may have heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattlePope Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 [quote name='[LB']]maybe you dont know enough as a native speaker, because what your saying isnt true. I dont think its fair either for you to simply declare your correct, i know that shisha is a term for maa'aassell, i have heard people who speak only arabic use the term themselves.[/quote] Just to clarify Mo, you said that you were right so don't argue with you. If LB said the he was right and not to argue with him, why should I believe you over him? I do not intend to offend anyone, just saying...it could go either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 [quote name='[LB']]although i appreciate what your saying this is not true. As an arabic student and speaker, i can guarantee you that shisha mean ma'assell in certain dialects. It also happens to mean pipe in egyptian and peninsulan dialect. It depends on where the speaker is from .Nargileh is also a term for the pipe, or Shisha-gorzah, but i can promise you that shisha does in fact mean ma'assell in a few specific dialects. [/quote] I see you have edited your post significantly If you are an arabic student or speaker, which arab dialect refers to the tobacco as 'the shisha'?? I can tell you that none of them do. IF you find a random joe arab who claims it is, I guarantee you'll find a hundred of his bretheren who will disagree with him. I'm sure if people started calling the tobacco 'hookah' you'd try to correct them. I'll have some Fakher Apple hookah please!! The 'hookah' texture is weird. the 'hookah' burns easily 'the 'hookah' sticks to the foil sprinkle 'the hookah' in You see what I'm getting at. Nobody smokes a shisha with shisha in the head. It makes no sense. Only someone who does not know what the thing is, e.g. a non-hookah/shisha smoker, would refer to the tobacco the same as the pipe. When this misconception spreads amongst others, then it becomes more accepted, but those who don't want to know, but really it's just incorrect. There is no harm in people knowing the truth, it is only when you argued with no basis other than hearing some random people say it that some silly individuals decided to argue for the sake of it rather than with any merit. I repeat SHISHA IS THE PIPE NOT THE TOBACCO Best Wishes HRH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 [quote name='BattlePope'][quote name='[LB']]maybe you dont know enough as a native speaker, because what your saying isnt true. I dont think its fair either for you to simply declare your correct, i know that shisha is a term for maa'aassell, i have heard people who speak only arabic use the term themselves.[/quote] Just to clarify Mo, you said that you were right so don't argue with you. If LB said the he was right and not to argue with him, why should I believe you over him? I do not intend to offend anyone, just saying...it could go either way.[/quote] Thanks for your question. The reason is that if you research any article or something semi official in english, let alone Arabic, you will always find the 'shisha' is the hookah, not the tobacco. The root of the word shisha is in fact related to the hookah and I believe is derived from 'glass' or something as the base is glass. The only time you'll find the tobacco referred to as 'shisha' is when it's something like an american website or a forum. These kinds of things are relatively easy to substantiate. Many American sites refer to it correctly with the shisha being the 'water-pipe' or hookah rather than the tobacco. I hope this is sufficient to show you the onus is on those who are claiming against the definitions of it. (just google 'shisha' or something). For the arab speakers of all dialects, you have to trust me on that, but if my comments are unsatisfactory, then clearly you do not best wishes HRH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xpimpitox Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 [quote name='King Mo'][quote name='xpimpitox'][quote name='King Mo'] Please do not argue this as I am telling you as a fact, it's up to you to heed the advice or not.[/quote] if you didnt want your ramblings to be argued, then why the hell did you post them 2 begin with.[/quote] hey pimplechickenpox It was so I could correct someone ignorant like yourself. The post was not for a debate, it was to help your sorry self. You don't want it, then get lost, I didn't force you to read it Perhaps it is 'fun' for you to argue with me. Stating I am a native speaker was for the benefit of LB who was telling me he/she was a student of arabic. Learn to read, and understand that if you do not want to read, then don't post on my thread. You guys must be bored if you need this excitement [/quote] ohh this is not excitement believe me. i have heard both sides of the fence with shisha being the actual pipe vs it being the tobaccco years ago. all im stating is people can call it what they want. obvious the middle eastern world is very dynamic with different dialects. i fully understand what your bitchin about and like i have said people have the right to call it what they want. like i stated, which in turn goes with what your sayin, i call it shisha in general and everybody in my social circle knows what im talkin about. your arguement is pointless simply because you are not gonna educate people on how to call something we all enjoy doing. so we should change it to shishaforum.com just to make you stop whining or what? ohh as for being sorry you should look into the mirror. i can imagine you being one of those assholes that always has to be right and will argue his point to his grave. although your opinions and "facts" are welcome, to call someone sorry and ignorant because they dont fully agree with what your sayin makes you in turn more ignorant. enjoy EDIT: ok mr all knowin master of shisha...what do you call the actual tobacco? please fill me in ima shisha smoker of 5 plus years but i dont know anything i feel so ignsignificant :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yashman19 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 A heated debate is fine, but the name calling isn't. I really don't care who started the name calling, but if it continues past my post, then this thread is gone, and some poeple are looking at 24hr temp bans. Lets play nice from now on, shall we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 [quote name='xpimpitox'][quote name='King Mo'][quote name='xpimpitox'][quote name='King Mo'] Please do not argue this as I am telling you as a fact, it's up to you to heed the advice or not.[/quote] if you didnt want your ramblings to be argued, then why the hell did you post them 2 begin with.[/quote] hey pimplechickenpox It was so I could correct someone ignorant like yourself. The post was not for a debate, it was to help your sorry self. You don't want it, then get lost, I didn't force you to read it Perhaps it is 'fun' for you to argue with me. Stating I am a native speaker was for the benefit of LB who was telling me he/she was a student of arabic. Learn to read, and understand that if you do not want to read, then don't post on my thread. You guys must be bored if you need this excitement [/quote] ohh this is not excitement believe me. i have heard both sides of the fence with shisha being the actual pipe vs it being the tobaccco years ago. all im stating is people can call it what they want. obvious the middle eastern world is very dynamic with different dialects. i fully understand what your bitchin about and like i have said people have the right to call it what they want. like i stated, which in turn goes with what your sayin, i call it shisha in general and everybody in my social circle knows what im talkin about. your arguement is pointless simply because you are not gonna educate people on how to call something we all enjoy doing. so we should change it to shishaforum.com just to make you stop whining or what? ohh as for being sorry you should look into the mirror. i can imagine you being one of those assholes that always has to be right and will argue his point to his grave. although your opinions and "facts" are welcome, to call someone sorry and ignorant because they dont fully agree with what your sayin makes you in turn more ignorant. enjoy [/quote] If you are making a mistake about something, there is no need to be offended when someone corrects you. Your typing is rather difficult to read so I suggest using paragraphs. Perhaps you were in a big rush because you are so frustrated at this trivial issue. Your attitude towards me was reprehensible at best and I dealt with you accordingly. Your comments have had no basis and yet you want to involve yourself in this thread. IF you want to be useful, then I suggest not feeling threatened simply because I have questioned your incorrect usage of the word 'shisha' I know what you mean if you say shisha, but that doesn't make your friends or yourself correct. I have given my reasons and if you are in disagreement, it is your right, but doesn't make it 'right'. @yashman, if anyone trys to mess up this thread, I won't mind you closing it. Some people get very excitable when King Mo makes statements I hope people will have a think about how they use the word though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 @xpimp you can call the tobacco whatever you like that actually describes it. people refer to it as 'muassal' as in the arabic people say 'molasses' due to the molasses component people say' tobacco' as it is tobacco peopel say 'shisha tobacco' as it is tobacco for shisha's etc peopel who call it a 'shisha' makes as much sense as calling the tobacco 'hookah' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xpimpitox Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 ohh im not offended. i feel im not making a mistake at all. and this isnt english class i dont have 2 write paragaphs . if your havin trouble then by all means dont read...my feelings will not be hurt. my comments may have no basis to you because they are in dissagreement with what your stating to a certain extent. i also dont feel threatned we can both say we are correct and its not gonna get us anywhere. as for me and my friends being correct, did you not read clearly it is going with what YOUR saying calling shisha a pipe. when referring to the tobacco we just decide on a flavor, we dont even call the tobacco shisha. i call it shisha on here because thats the general word everybody uses. dont expect everybody to change the name simply because the all mighty king mo stated it is wrong. to each their own as i always say just dont expect everybody to be in agreement with you. speaking of "shisha" its that time...adios EDIT: moassell i used 2 call it but switched to shisha because thats what people generally know. hookah tobacco for the headshop owners that dont know much and overcharge for this stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 It's not wrong because 'I've' stated it's wrong. It's wrong because the shisha is the pipe. This is the definition you'll get from anyone who knows what he's talking about. It's not part of any arab dialect to refer to the tobacco as shisha. Look at your nakhla box, your fakher box or any other box of reputable tobacco and I guarantee it does not say 'shisha' on it. Research the term 'shisha' and see what answers you get. These are the facts, read the other points I've mentioned and you'll understand it. I can call the tobacco 'Eminem' I'd like to smoke some apple Eminem please After all, it's up to me If someone started a thread, asking "which hookah do you prefer, Fumari, Fakher or Al Amir" would someone not correct him?? of course they would. Anyone who disagrees better have some proof that goes against the definition of 'shisha' or the root of the word. Heck, even find me an arab country that refers to the tobacco as shisha. Don't you think they'd at least write 'shisha' on the actual box of tobacco if that was the case?? FFS, some people just argue for the hell of it. You cannot deny a fact simply because you and your friends don't want to know the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguineSolitude Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 people get excited when you make statements because you do it in a very arrogant way. I agree that you are correct and am not in any way questioning that. but one can inform people without calling them ignorant. In addition, perhaps we as americans have simply decided to start calling muassel shisha. Weve coined new terms for ourselves many times before, why not now. Indeed in England, sugary confections are known as sweets and desserts as puddings. this was true when america was founded, yet today were you to ask an average american for some sweets or ask a restaurant what sorts of puddings they serve, you will likely find they dont know what you are referring to. It may be true that in arabic and the middle east they call the tobacco moassel, but in the USA we call it shisha. I agree it may not be correct for us to do it, but its arguably not correct for us to call Espagne Spain either, and thats never stopped us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 [quote name='SanguineSolitude']people get excited when you make statements because you do it in a very arrogant way. I agree that you are correct and am not in any way questioning that. but one can inform people without calling them ignorant. In addition, perhaps we as americans have simply decided to start calling muassel shisha. Weve coined new terms for ourselves many times before, why not now. Indeed in English, sugary confections are known as sweets and desserts as puddings. this was true when america was founded, yet today were you to ask an average american for some sweets or ask a restaurant what sorts of puddings they serve, you will likely find they dont know what you are referring to. It may be true that in arabic and the middle east they call the tobacco moassel, but in the USA we call it shisha. I agree it may not be correct for us to do it, but its arguably not correct for us to call Espagne Spain either, and thats never stopped us.[/quote] Your comments don't help the excitable ones. My arrogance is irrelevent to a discussion. People who read something and do not learn intentionally are IGNORANT. This is the case and my intitial statement is very digestable if you are 'not excitable'. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill, otherwise you'll make yourself look excitable. In the USA you don't 'call it shisha'. Some people in the USA incorrectly call it shisha. What is with the 'USA, Us, We'. The fact you're american is nothing to do with Ignorance and I have never stated this. You have agreed with me, so why come out with nonsense for the rest of your post?? is it not to argue? are you the defender of the excitable?? I'll quote you again [quote]I agree that you are correct and am not in any way questioning that.[/quote] The other stuff in your post just shows your bad intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xpimpitox Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 i never stated i didnt wanna know the fact. its just simply that i dont care for your "fun fact" of the day. like sanguine said we have as americans have just gotten used 2 callin it shisha as thats how my armenian friend told me the tobacco was called when i first tried hookah 5 years ago. i also agree with sanguine you make statements in a very arrogant matter. you may be correct but the fact that you are callin someone ignorant because they choose to call something one way when in turn it MAY be wrong its just in turn you being ignorant. just because my friend calls it hooks is he ignorant? no its just a nickname he has come up with he knows very well its called a hookah/shisha and the tobacco is also referred to as maossell. you can call people ignorant all you want but the way you go about it makes you sound 10x as more ignorant than the next guy. in the end cant we all just get along and smoke a nice bowl of whatever you flavor of choice is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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