Health Concerns

[Mathazar]

Well,  all I know is that once the maasell starts to burn, 
it's time to stop smoking that bowl so you can scrape-off the burnt
stuff,  because otherwise if you're smoking burnt tobacco, 
you'll more than likely be coughing, and if you're coughing
than that means you're obviously inhaling unhealthy substances. 
And that is very bad for your lungs,  I should
know......lol......as I have coughed-up a lung on several
occasions,  and it AIN'T pretty.  At some points,  I've
actually ended-up dry-heaving,  which eventually lead to
throwing-up.  Talking about it is making me sick.

In any case,  I read somewhere that smoking 1 bowl of maasell is
comparable to smoking 18 cigarettes,  where nicotine is
concerned 

[El Duderino]

[quote name='Mathazar'][b]In any case,  I read somewhere that smoking 1 bowl of maasell is comparable to smoking 18 cigarettes,  where nicotine is concerned  [/b][/quote]
Not sure where you heard that, cause it doesn't make sense. On the box of most shisha boxes, it will say typically that in one 250g box, the nicotine content is .5%. I don't know the exact amount in a pack of smokes, but .5% of a 250g box seems petty compared to the amount in a pack of ciggs.
And like mentioned above, as long as you're smoking smooth, non-burning smoke from you're bowl, then you're "steaming" the tobacco, as apposed to burning the tobacco. If you do this properly, then no tar will occur. If the smoke ever tastes harsh, then you know the tobacco is being burned, thus causing tar.
Smoking a hookah properly takes a little practice to get the hang of, but it's very simple. If they'res a lot of smoke but it tastes harsh, take some heat off. If there isnt much flavor or smoke, add more heat on.
Hope this helps a little.

[piperdown]

It would nice to know what really happens on a chemical level when
smoking hookah.  I found the following that might shed at least
some light with respect to cigarettes and chemical content per
cigarette - [url="http://www.erowid.org/plants/tobacco/tobacco_nic.shtml"]click here.[/url]

What I'm not sure about is one would compare percentages (%.5) to
mg/cigarette.  Perhaps given that a bowl of ma'assell is about 2
tbsp by volume (I'm guessing here), it's probably equal in volume to
1.5 cigarettes?

Perhaps someone with better math skills than myself could find the common denominator here.

[Mathazar]

I smoke approximately 10 bowls per day.  If one bowl is equal to
1.5 cigarettes,  then that means I'm smoking the equivalent of 15
cigarettes per day  

Hmmm.....Makes me think about the health benefits of cutting-back on my smoking habit 

[piperdown]

Where the rubber meets the road (or the coal meets the foil )
is what the smoke/steam contains.  From what I can tell after
smoking a bowl the tobacco is relatively unburned, at least when
compared to a cigarette, cigar, or conventional pipe tobacco.  So,
in the end, are we smoking molasses & fruit, and is it really
smoke, or something closer to steam?  For example, even if hookah
tobacco was stronger in terms of nicotine, etc, if its not burned, how
much of this is actually released?

Crap, it's late - I gotta go ta bed.

[Kofod]

[quote name='El Duderino']-burning smoke from you're bowl, then you're "steaming" the tobacco, as apposed to burning the tobacco. If you do this properly, then no tar will occur. If the smoke ever tastes harsh, then you know the tobacco is being burned, thus causing tar.[/quote]
Smoke contains tar - hookah smoke or cigarette smoke - burned or steamed.

[NERV]

well personally i wouldnt be too worried about it, its been tradition
for centuries, if hookah had nything more than marginally unhealthy
people wudve stopped using it long ago

[Kofod]

You are not smoking steam only - steam is vaporized water.
Water does not taste like apple or other things.
If you have smoke you have tar - there are not two ways about it. Hookah or not. Burning or not. Thats the facts.

[Mathazar]

Well,  I can't even count the number of times I've burned the
tobacco,  so in my case,  I would have been inhaling toxic
fumes from the smoke,  which would certainly explain why on so
many occasions I have coughed my brains out 

[Kofod]

That is one hundred percent not true.
In order to produce smoke you ned to make an aerosol - nothing more. Fire or not makes a difference - but not in the way you describe it.
It is smoke coming out of you mouth - if it was a form of gas you could not se it.
The "cloud" that we all know from when we use shisha is an aerosol (not a gas) and a gas is smoke.

[To100YearsToLate]

Of course its bad for you.  Anything fun and enjoyable is.

[Roketsloth]

masturbating isn't bad for you.  i do it all the time.

[HeadCheese]

Thanks for the tip, Rocketsloth...

[NERV]

i would be inclined to agree with roketsloth 

[E.G.]

[quote name='Roketsloth']masturbating isn't bad for you.  i do it all the time.[/quote]
With or without the hookah?  
Actually, if the original poster is still reading this, this subject came up a month or so ago.  Somewhere in there I found the paper which I suspect generated the 1 bowl = 18 cigs stats.  Unclear and possibly questionable methodolgy as I recall, but the preponderance of the scant evidence out there tends to make me think that hookah smoking is quite as benign as we'd like to think.
E.G.

[MR Bubble]

Well, one question concerning the tar: If you are receiving tar from massell being burned or steamed or whatever, why does the box say "Tar: 0%?" I know we are talking about another country's practices and legal standards, but a lie is a lie and I would think international (if not local) legal ramifications would be a threat for these people. So, having said that, are we still of the opinion that smoking massell produces tar?
On the other side of the coin, if you smoke a cigarette and exhale through a white cloth against your mouth, you get a brown stain (or something resembling a dirty underwear skid-mark). This is always presumed to be a tar stain. Do the same with shisha and you get a brown stain also. I think I will try to open correspondence with a manufacturer and get the poop on the "0 % tar" standard. May be told to go to hell, but I'll try anyway.
Happy Friday.
MR Bubble

[MR Bubble]

Oh, here's a link for you.
[url="http://www.nakhla.com/docs/molasses.htm"]http://www.nakhla.com/docs/molasses.htm[/url]
I tried to email them several months ago and found the address a dead account. I have other tricks up my sleeve.
MR Bubble

[ApoC]

here is the math:

0.05% nicotine in most shisha. assuming you smoke a 15 gram bowl, that
amounts to a total dose of 7.5 milligrams of nicotine. According to
Erowid, nicotine doses range from up to 1 gram as a normal dose, up to
2 as strong, and up to 4 as a heavy dose. of course, few people smoke a
15 gram bowl to themselves, and those who have tried (with potent
shisha) are aware of the excessive body rush/load it incurs (usually
resulting in mild nausea). cigarettes contain between .1 and 2 mg of
nicotine each. therefore, one could extrapolate that a 15 gram bowl of
shisha may contain as much nicotine as 4 strong cigarettes.

here is the facts: smoking that 15 gram bowl of shisha is NOT the same
as smoking 4 strong cigarettes. nicotine is NOT what makes cigarettes
bad... its the chemical additives which are a health concern. nicotine
is addictive, and gives you a nice rush, but in itself is not a serious
healh threat. cigarettes also contain a HUGE amount of tar, which
shisha does not (most shisha is rated 0.0% tar). anyone experience in
hookah smoking can attest to the clean feeling of the smoke, which is
due to the fact that not only is the smoke very clean (because the
shisha is "baked", not burned to ash), but also thanks to the water
filtration and cooling the hookah provides.

the hookah also provides another little mechanism in our favor:
convenience. hookahs are not nearly as convenient as cigarettes, and
this is a very good thing. for one, smoking a hookah is a process which
takes time, and is patient and relaxing, and for another it also has a
certain "procedure" or "ceremony" if you will. a cigarette is simply
lit and smoked to ash, leaving little room for any serious enjoyment,
and instead gives you a nice little dose of nicotine, and a slew of
disgusting chemicals and residues.

the hookah is filled with water, shisha, and set up with screen/foil
and charcoals, which are carefully lit. the procedure of hookah setup,
and the time it takes to smoke it completely, is not only a time to
relax, socialize, think, and enjoy, but also a regulator against using
it often. we could estimate it takes an hour at the very least to setup
and smoke the hookah... not to mention you cant really smoke your
hookah at work, while driving, while walking, etc. this effectively
regulates how much you smoke the hookah, so one would be hard pressed
to become addicted to nicotine through hookah use. of course, some of
us might be able to find time to smoke 10 bowls a day (mathazar, youre
insane), but for the average hookah smoker, nicotine intake is
relatively low compared to most smokers.

The bottom line: hookahs can never really become a considerable threat
to ones health, as long as the quality of shisha (and the concentration
of nicotine) remains consistant in the future. i have no doubt that in
fact, quality will only improve.

[MR Bubble]

ApoC, That was really a great explainer. I just hit the "send" button on an email I think should reach the soul in charge of R%D at Nakhla. Hopefully we can get his take on it as well. Or, he can just tell me to "Shag-off." We'll see.
MR Bubble

[Kofod]

About the 0.0 % tar in shisha thing.
There's no added tar in shisha. Same with an apple - there's no added sugar - but I bet you all know theres sugar in apples.
Some cigarettes have tar added for binding purposes. These will have a declarence saying x % tar. Other tobacco with no tar will have 0 % on the pack.
What happens though is that when you burn (or bake) tobacco an aerosol will be created (this is the cloud we refer to as smoke). An aerosol is a dispersion of solids in a gas or particles "flowing" in the air. All the solids is what we can se or sort of say the thing that makes it not look like air.
Inhaling flying solids to your lungs is not healthy. The solids are put in to different groups to categorize them. Solids of organic nature is the "Condensate" or "tar".
In "tobacco science" the partikles of the aerosol is mainly divided into three groups. Water - Nicotine and Nicotine-Free-Dry-Particulate-Matter (NFDPM). Other compounds exist and are being measured, but they are not relevant here and the three mentioned are also the bulk compounds.
So the tar is all the organic compounds in the smoke aerosol, or everything that is not water or nicotine.
Therefore Mr bubble you can read on the package that it contains no tar - but when you burn or bake it, you will produce tar that is then present in the smoke that you end up inhaling.
Same thing goes for Dioxin - this toxin is not added to meat - but if you cook your steak to much and at to high temperatures Dioxin will be created during the process.
The tar content of smoke from a typical hookah setup has been measured. Here in the scientific article:
Shidadeh A.Investigation of mainstream smoke aerosol of the argileh water pipe.Food Chem Toxicol. 2003 Ja;41(1):143-52
Where it can be read that a typical session of one cup/one coal and 100 pufs will produce inhaled smoke with an amount of tar equivalent to the tar content from the smoke of one ultra light cigarette.
Therefore tar is present in the smoke of baked shisha.
Mr Bubble and others could then argue that not only the amount of tar present in the pack when you buy the pack should be informed, but also the amount in the smoke that it will create when it is consumed.
For cigarettes this is legislated in the EU - Condensate, nicotine and CO consumed, i dont know over there - but maybe you can find the same on your packs.
My guess is that it will not be required for other types of tobacco since cigarettes is much more of a health concern than the other types.