Rudy Guiliani for Prez?

[Scalliwag]

I think that two people that I honestly do not think wished that 9-11 happened indirectly benefited HUGELY politically when it did. GW had low approval ratings and getting lower by the day.
Because of the attack on the country his approval ratings rose because a nation in mourning got behind it's leader and as time has shown he politicized those events to his parties advantage.
During that time the mayor of the city who was suffering poor approval ratings himself was able to gain from the sad events as well.

Even the New York City Police Department was still reeling from two horrible events, the Louima case http://transcripts.cnn.com/2000/US/03/06/l...ima.verdict.01/ and the Diallo case http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/jun2000/.../spri-j15.shtml.
One where a cop went crazy and sodomized a legal immigrant with a handle from a toilet plunger and him and his buddies tried to cover it up and the other where a legal immigrant reaching for his wallet was shot 41 times. When the cops that shot his were acquitted Rudy exclaimed with GLEE that justice was served.
I always wondered how the hell justice could be served when a innocent man was in a grave after being shot 41 times by Rudy's cops. I also wondered just what the hell that said about Rudy.

Hopefully people will remember the Rudy prior to 911 and what a total and completely corrupt POS this guy is. To say the guy has issues with civil rights is an understatement.

[Sonthert]

Whats a POS? Define it and I might vote!

I agree with the jist of what you are saying. Of course the pro-corporation biased media is already laying tracks..."Guiliani is too liberal". Trying to make moderates warm up to him. Ironically, the blow of losing both sides of congress and watching GWBs popularity swirl around the toilet basin has followed to now the republicans are trying to say how "moderate" GWB is, which is just laying the groundwork for, GWB is so moderate and these left-wing whacko democrats aren't working with him, because they want to run the show. Unless of course they do indeed set course on some bi-partisan leadership. GWB is setting up a situation to try and cow the democrats. Its like they point out, the ad nauseum fallacy, repeat it enough times and people will believe it, like "The whole world wanted us to go to war with Iraq." or "The media has a liberal bias." Or how the fictitious "Clean air for Tomorrow Group" wants to eliminate all environmental laws. They say one lie and say it enough times or say the opposite of what they mean. Truth is GWB and Rudy are conservatives pure and simple and they are no more moderate that Benito Mussolini was. They are the face of the modern republican party, bought and paid for by the large media and corporate giants and the christian right wing. They run up huge debts, give tax breaks that benefit primarily the rich and then blame everyone else from democrats to illegal immigrants for the fountain of problems they themselves have had a chance to create being in the White House for 18 of the past 26 years. Every republican for the past 70 years, except for Gerry Ford, who took over the last part of Nixon's term after a disasterous Vietnam War, has started a war in his presidency that has ranged from annoying to disasterous. Not since Dwight D Eisenhower has a republican turned in a balanced budget...let alone one that wasn't running up such a trememdous multi-billion dollar deficits. Democrats? Only Jimmy Carter failed to turn in a surplus in his presidential term for the same period of time, and admittedly the economy was incredibly sick in the last part of the 1970s. Don't forget that in the past 70 or so years, the democrats and the republicans have been in the White House roughly 50%/50%. 13 of the 14 major economic downturns in the same time period have occurred under republican presidents. What have the Republicans, leading this country done to make us safer from terrotists? Bug phones? Bust some borderline homeless people in Florida? Nothing.

Republicans...make national deficits, make the economy go sour, start wars, watch jobs leave the US, try to force religion down people's throats and then blame everyone else for how bad this country has gotten. The best thing America could do is to turn over lead of this country to the democrats for 12-16 years, maybe get some third party candidates in there, right some of the Republican injustices that have been perpetrated (US Patriot Act, The Telecommunications Act of 1996...Michael Powell, you are a prick!) and open this country up to be able to have third party candidates run and receive electoral votes. The republican party would fade into history as the party that represented themselves and not the American People. The party that helped themselves to get richer while the rest of America watched their jobs and vitality ebb away.

I digress, yes the Republicans have been in the right place at the right time and used this and their control over big media to divert people's attention away from things.

Oh, do you mean Piece of Shit? POS? I get it. Yes he is. He's a modern Republican. Worse still, Republicans from predominantly Democratic areas tend to be the biggest pricks.

[Lakemonster]

Ughhhhh..

Dont get me started.......... the two very possible next prez scare the shit out of me.

Hitlery for Prez 2008?

No thanks on that front as well.... I havent seen a soul yet that wafted its hideous aroma around the campaign trail that I WANT to vote for.

So.... I keep on voting for the guy that has no chance.

[stevehookah]

ppfffsstt...

I vote for me.... After 9-11 I'd have pointed nukes to the whole mid-east and said.

"Give them up, or fry."

The biggest lie I ever heard, was from the black box of Flight 11..

""We have some planes. Just stay quiet and you'll be okay."
Sept. 11 hijacker Muhammad Atta heard on tape"

If I were in the White House. Every muslim would have been deported.

Bush tried to be diplomatic.. Sometimes, that is not the answer.

Some innocents would have been inconvenienced, but hey life is not 'fair' at times.

[Krautle87]

Rudi- too socially liberal for my tastes, but I would trust him on the defining issue of our time, national security. For all of the "civil rights violations" commited under Rudi's term as mayor, he cleaned up NYC from a seedy crime ridden sesspool into a respectable, relatively safe city which Americans could be proud of. Of course the dems like to say Bill Clinton's midnight basketball program is what cut down gang activity, but who are they really kidding. :roll:

Anyways, although I would vote for Rudy in a national election, I would much rather see a Romney-Rice ticket. Mitt Romney is moderately conservative socially, pro life, and one of the strongest voices sounding the call to alarm regarding Islamofacism. Electing the first ever black female to executive office would be a great accomplishment for the GOP, and her strong stands on national defence are appropriate in the post-911 age.

I also like Gingrich on both domestic and international issues, just not quite as much as Romney.

[high_society]

ppfffsstt...

If I were in the White House.  Every muslim would have been deported.

Bush tried to be diplomatic..  Sometimes, that is not the answer.

Would we really have to repeat the WW2 era with the Japanese? or did you for get the j/k?

[Scalliwag]

ppfffsstt...

I vote for me....  After 9-11 I'd have pointed nukes to the whole mid-east and said.

"Give them up, or fry."

The biggest lie I ever heard, was from the black box of Flight 11..

""We have some planes. Just stay quiet and you'll be okay."
Sept. 11 hijacker Muhammad Atta heard on tape"

If I were in the White House.  Every muslim would have been deported.

Bush tried to be diplomatic..  Sometimes, that is not the answer.

Some innocents would have been inconvenienced, but hey life is not 'fair' at times.

I know what you mean Steve. After McVeigh blew up the Murrah building I thought rounding up the rightwing fanatics and "inconveniencing" them sounded like a damn good idea.
Bush diplomatic? That was a joke right? With us or against us?

[Scalliwag]

Rudi- too socially liberal for my tastes, but I would trust him on the defining issue of our time, national security. For all of the "civil rights violations" commited under Rudi's term as mayor, he cleaned up NYC from a seedy crime ridden sesspool into a respectable, relatively safe city which Americans could be proud of. Of course the dems like to say Bill Clinton's midnight basketball program is what cut down gang activity, but who are they really kidding.  :roll:  

Anyways, although I would vote for Rudy in a national election, I would much rather see a Romney-Rice ticket. Mitt Romney is moderately conservative socially, pro life, and one of the strongest voices sounding the call to alarm regarding Islamofacism. Electing the first ever black female to executive office would be a great accomplishment for the GOP, and her strong stands on national defence are appropriate in the post-911 age.  

I also like Gingrich on both domestic and international issues, just not quite as much as Romney.

Romney is a rightwing nutcase just like Gingrich. Gingrich said that if a man's wife could not trust him that thecountry couldn't at the same time he was screwing his staffer. Just another of a long line of hypocritical family value POS's.

Rudy really is only socially moderate in his personal life like most conservatives turn out to be if you investigate close enough.

[DarthHookah]

ill vote for anyone who will let me keep my guns, will keep abortion safe and legal, and finally let gays get married. i might have other questions for them too.

[SanguineSolitude]

ppfffsstt...

I vote for me....  After 9-11 I'd have pointed nukes to the whole mid-east and said.

"Give them up, or fry."

The biggest lie I ever heard, was from the black box of Flight 11..

""We have some planes. Just stay quiet and you'll be okay."
Sept. 11 hijacker Muhammad Atta heard on tape"

If I were in the White House.  Every muslim would have been deported.

Bush tried to be diplomatic..  Sometimes, that is not the answer.

Some innocents would have been inconvenienced, but hey life is not 'fair' at times.

i agree with steve... that is i would if i werent able to actually utilise reason and logic. deport every muslim because a few guys managed to commit a big crime? so i suppose when the japanese bombed pearl harbor we were justified in putting all asians (note: not only japanese people) in camps? i suppose in world war two we should have deported all people with german backgrounds. when mcveigh bombed that building we should have deported all white people from the country... etc. great logic.

and yeah because 13 highjackers and a some terrorists get pissed(and i would argue justifiably so) at the US having laid waste to their homelands during the cold war and then abandoning them (former allies i might add) immediately afterwards, we should kill everyone in the entire middle east.
(not saying they were justified for commiting the crimes, but at the same time the attack was quite a bit less "unprovoked" than our attack on nazi germany)

by "some innocents" i assume you mean 99% of the population over there. i hope noone ever commits a murder in your city, because with your logic, the entire city is gonna be killed. and "lifes not fair" at times? why doesnt that apply to a mere couple thousand people who died on 9/11? surely a few thousand innocents dead is better than millions. but i guess maybe non "americans" dont count as people to you.


maybe you should think before you speak. or better just avoid the latter entirely. your gungho patriotism and idiocy kinda make me sick.

[Scalliwag]

There you go trying to use common sense against redneck logic Sangy! If rednecks like GW did not put us all at risk, their stupidity would be entertaining. Even the supposed "smart one", Cheney, said the Iraqi's would greet us as liberators.
This logic Steve is using makes the most ridiculous assumption unless he never bothered to look at a map and realize that Russia is just a bit too close to Afghanistan that at minimal the radioactive fallout would be a huge problem and as soon as we shot nkes to that region they would fire them over here.

Rounding up all muslims? How many car bombs have we had in our streets? Now go telling a group of people they are our enemies and see if that offensive logic doe not turn some of them to terrorists.

I can't help but think of the logic that went into preparing the first prison we setup in Afghanistan where we had the revolt and the CIA agent interviewing prisoners died. Mike Spann asks this guy that was not even from Afghanistan what he was doing there. He said "to kill Americans and then killed him. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer The way the entire security at the prison was setup down to not bringing these guys in smaller groups to be interviewed showed an arrogance that made us dangerous to ourselves, hence one dead CIA agent and the other CIA agent and a couple of translators running for their lives.
The logic there? These guys had turned themselves in so they can't be that dangerous.

People with ridiculously simple minded ideas and logic are more dangerous than the most cunning of terrorist if ever put in a position to actually make decisions.

[Scalliwag]

Here is a comment that Rudy should be held to the fire over; after it was found that a lot of conventional weapons were stolen from munitions dumps in Iraq Rudy made this statement "The next morning, on NBC's "Today" show, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani stepped on Bush's line, blaming U.S. troops for not properly searching the weapons dump. "No matter how you try to blame it on the president, the actual responsibility for it really would be for the troops that were there. Did they search carefully enough -- didn't they search carefully enough?" said Giuliani." http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/20...index.html?pn=1
The problem was not the troops fault, Rumsfield did not send in enough troops so that we could protect the depots and unless they would have had actual WMD's Rummy felt no need to worry about it. Today some of the roadside bombs killing our guys are in all likelihood the weapons we let the enemy steal from us.

As far as I know Rudy never apologized for this cheap swipe he took at our troops. The next president needs to be someone that never made bullshit excuses to try and make Bush not look like the incompetent idiot he is.

Also, the earlier remark about Condi Rice as a vice-prez? The same Condi that evaded testifying before the 911 commission? That same brilliant mind that had this exchange during her testimony when she finally did testify? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYbWaMqWy7s
That evasive bitch should not even be in her position now. I do not think that someone that believes they are above answering to the American people has no place in our government. So please find someone with no ties to GW or him pathetic administration to lead the country.

[moosepotatoes]

Some of you people are so fucking angry all the time. I think trying to make a separation between republican and democrat like sonthert did is fucking stupid. Callinng all republicans pricks is stupid, and you are stupid for saying it. I dont care how different your beliefs are, that's fucking dumb, I dont agree with what half of the population says but I certainly dont think everyone I disagree with is stupid, immoral or a prick. That is a really immature statement. No one will ever come to an agreement on anything, everyone in the world is different, and as soon as people realize that, the better off they will be.

[Scalliwag]

well, my argument to that would be that any of the other political parties in Germany in the 30's and 40's were different than the Nazi's. The people that follow idiots blindly into wars and attack those that disagree was what caused all the grief in Germany. While republicans may not be Nazi's they are just as blind in most cases and that is the exact reason we are in the shit we are in today.

I am not angry all the time. I am a pretty happy go lucky guy. I just like to point out the obvious to the oblivious sometimes and watch them squirm It's actually fun!

[Krautle87]

Also, the earlier remark about Condi Rice as a vice-prez? The same Condi that evaded testifying before the 911 commission? That same brilliant mind that had this exchange during her testimony when she finally did testify? That evasive bitch should not even be in her position now. I do not think that someone that believes they are above answering to the American people has no place in our government. So please find someone with no ties to GW or him pathetic administration to lead the country.

Perhaps the National Security Advisor had more important buisness to attend to than appearing at a partisan sideshow? :roll:

[Scalliwag]

Perhaps the National Security Advisor had more important buisness to attend to than appearing at a partisan sideshow? :roll:

Perhaps, because obviously the months leading up to 911 she apparently had more important business to attend tp than National Security?
Guess that whole "Bin Laden plans to attack within the United States" was just not important enough business? Lemme guess, you're a republican?

[SanguineSolitude]

not all republicans are stupid. in fact i would say most are not. but those who believe without questioning and examining (this applies to republicans, democrats, independents, and everyone else. heck even to most religious people) what they believe in are stupid. if your pastor or political leader (soon to be one and the same if the repubs have their way) tells you that the world is flat and evolution isnt a fact, and you believe him without examining the plethora of scientific evidence showing that he is most likely wrong.... youre an idiot sir. if you believe someone after they have lied to you repeatedly, disrupted your lives, deprived you of liberties, sent the country into collossal debt, set up fiscal practices that harm and exclude the poor while benefitting the rich, sent our fellow citizens to die for false pretenses, and worst of all not even had the human decency to at least issue an appology... you are stupid. sorry guys i have nothing against the people who believe in the republican party, i just have a problem with what they believe. kinda like nazis. some of the soldier were really nice guys... but their beliefs were unnacceptable.

[SanguineSolitude]

oh and watch your language. when you tell us how we're all so "fucking angry" even though we managed to form coherent thoughts and refrain from swearing, it gives the wrong impression. namely that youre quite angry.


do you believe in being republican because youve thought about it... or because daddy was one?

[Scalliwag]

I agree totally, not all Nazi's were stupid either, some were just evil as hell. I honestly believe when it comes to politics all you can hope for is the lesser of the evils. But if that is the best you can do it is the best you can do ya know? I do not like a lot of democrats and some republicans like Olypia Snowe and Arlen Specter I like more than many democrats. But the parties in genenral is where I have to choose sides. I don't like arrogant POS's and I view both GW and Rudy as two of the worst. I thought it was funny when Rudy's mistress was living with him in the governors mansion. It just shows that those family value repubs will support anybody that calls themselves a repub ARRRR, ya know that Foley feller? HA!!! Yep, those repubs crack me up sometimes

[Sonthert]

Most republicans are republicans because they didn't think about it... :wink:

Timothy McVeigh believed in god...I think we should have deported all the people who believe in god...we have to protect ourselves from terrorists! Maybe deport every person who has a Scottish sounding name...maybe every man under the age of 30...we HAVE to protect ourselves from those terrorists.

Guliani is not moderate...just because the Fox Box says he is doesn't make him that way. He supports deregulation, he supports privitization. He supported militaristic strikes against Iraq and Afghanistan. He lies or distorts facts when he speaks on Fox News. Just a run-of-the-mill Republican. Maybe he's pro-abortion rights, maybe he's pro-balanced budget...its all window dressing...another bought and paid for politician of the republican variety.

Condoleeza Rice sat before a Senate Investigating Committee and lied for three hours or however long she testified for regarding the 9-11 attacks. She should be indicted for perjury. She supports deregulation, she supports privatization, she supported militaristic strikes in Afghanistan and Iraq. She lies or distorts the facts when she's interviewed on Fox News. Run-of-the-mill bought and paid for politician of the republican variety. Worse, she's a complete tool. She should have resigned along with Rumsfeld...OK, the entire Bush cabinet, Bush and Cheney. Rumsfeld at least had some final modicum of class. Ashcroft begged.

You say Rice being elected to an executive position would be an accomplishment of the Republican Party...well one in 16 years ain't too ba-...I'm sorry, what kind of racist are you? You make that statement like Rice being black and elected is something special. Maybe instead of electing people for the color of the skin, the republican party should be looking at people for their qualifications. Come to think of it, so should the democrats. The only two names that I hear out of the democrat's asses for president are Obama and H. Clinton. Why don't you guys (the politicians) dredge down for some responsible, qualified candidates (although H. Clinton is qualified, but not preferable) that are qualified for something other than by the color of their skin or what bathroom they walk into!?

Yeah, Scali, I second that. Anybody associated with Bush's cabinet should be disqualified because any group who has gone so long without telling the truth has to be bad for the country. I heard an amusing politican cartoon described:

An young person, a lunch tray and a large, fat Dick Cheney character are in an office and Cheney bellows:"You're fired! I ordered a ham sandwich, but you need to know everything I say is a lie!"

P.S. moose potatoes...#1: I noticed you didn't refute any of my points or my evidence. You said "Fuck this, stupid that." I clearly supported by contentions with evidence...obviously, by your response, my points must all be correct, since all thats left is calling me names. I called Michael Powell a prick, somewhat jokingly, and I said republicans from predominantly democratic areas tend to be the biggest pricks. I did not say all republicans are pricks. Before you take exception with my posts, you should read my posts carefully. I do the same for you. You are the one who certainly seems angry.

Item #2:As one of the admins here, I am certainly dismayed by your personal attacks...since they are at me and I have a thick hide, I will ignore them, but I am going to make a note of this for the other admins. Additional violations may result in suspension. IF you can't formulate a coherent argument without personally attacking me (or someone else), refrain from posting...nobody really wants to hear your flaming. Please reread the sticky post on the rules of the Forum and Conduct.

[entrailsgalore]

Well I think life is unfair alot. Sometimes the innocent get caught up in the middle. Thats just how life works. Its only logical to look for a kid wearing a metallica shirt when someone reported being robbed by a kid wearing a Metallica shirt. The same logic applys here, I would believe.

[moosepotatoes]

I'm not even mad, I just cuss like a sailor, bad habit.

Sonthert, I dont really care who is right in the situation. There isn't really any disagreement between you and me except your comments on republicans being dumb. You didn't say it directly, I know this, but you are implying it, especially with your last comment.

Most republicans are republicans because they didn't think about it...

Judging a whole group of people like that is really immature and stupid. I'm not going to take it back. I WILL, though, take back my foul language, and calling you stupid directly and replace it with, if you truly believe that all republicans are stupid, or pricks, just because they believe differently that you, you truly are a moron. :-. That's prejudice at it's worst. I understand it was a joke, and hope it was so.
No man, there aren't any republicans on this forum. If there are they are sorely outnumbered.

I'm not even a republican Sanguine, I dont call myself one either. By the way, my father passed away when I was 13, so....no....It's not because of daddy, I never got a chance to talk to him about politics. I'd defend this just as much if you were saying it about democrats.

My point is, i think it's silly trying to fall into one certain group rather than just believing what you think is true. I'm not into politics. I don't really give a piss about taxes. (you're going to have to pay them anyways). I've always gone by morals, and what person I think is morally better,or seems like a better guy. I dont see any fitting candidates for this upcoming election really. Stuff probably wont change, and I will always be unhappy with some decision, and so will everyone. Obama seems like a decent guy, McCain does as well. Although I haven't seen much of either. I'd rather sit down and have dinner with GWB than John Kerry, Al Gore, Hilary Clinton and some of those current liberals combined. I find that conservative people are easier to talk to.

[SanguineSolitude]

good response.

i liked mccain until he joined the pat robertson bandwagon. kinda scary

[jonny_lech]

Rudy will not win the GOP primary. His stance on abortion all but garuntees this. It's a non-starter.

[Krautle87]

No man, there aren't any republicans on this forum. If there are they are sorely outnumbered.  

*raises hand*

I feel more surrounded and outnumbered than Israel.

Funny thing is, both of my shisha smoking friends are republicans too.