Do you believe in God?

[Soup]

**I apologise in advance if anything is offenceive to anyone who may read this**
I don't believe in god, nor do I believe in religion of any type.  Religion causes wars over which is the "right god(s)".  Religion tells people what to do, how to act, and how to live...what to believe.  No one can tell me what I believe.  I refuse to be drawn into that.  Chistianity was created in the middle ages to keep the serfs working and trudging through their otherwise meaningless existance, so that they may be "saved" and live in eternal happiness.
However, since I do not believe religion is a good thing, I do believe that spirituality is.  There is nothing wrong with having beliefs that they set themselves.  You like a teaching from the bible...go on, apply it to your life, you like teachings of Buddah...go for it.  Your spirituality is for you to make and no one can make you believe otherwise.
Please, believe what you want.  I'm not gonna tell you otherwise.  All I want is for you to know that you don't have to believe everything you were told...be individual and not part of the collective.
Thank you for your time.

[[LB]]

[quote name='Highpockets']Agnostic. I'd like to believe in a higher power, there really is no way to know for sure though.[/quote]

id have to agree with him and id like to add two points

1)There is no really really
valid proof that any sort of gods exist. There can be a scientific
explanation for most things today, and as science progresses, religion
becomes less and less credible. No man has been to heaven or hell and
come back, i bet that once you die you just rot in the ground, and life
just ends, like it should. Religion is a way for people to answer those
unanswerable questions- its easy to fall back on and easy to accept,
not too complicated to learn either

2) there is no possible way that so many thousands of religions can
co-exist on this earth. Everybody thinks they are right, and how can
everyone be right. One thing i despise is the hatred that causes the
seperation of people just because they believe in different gods or
bullsh*t like that. How about rather than thinking your religion is
right, accept that all religions are not.

[Mathazar]

Very well stated 

[cypress]

[quote name='[lebanese_blonde']]
How about rather than thinking your religion is
right, accept that all religions are not.[/quote]

Exactly.

[brother812]

[quote name='[lebanese_blonde']]  How about rather than thinking your religion is right, accept that all religions are not.[/quote]
that is probably the most intelligent statement i have heard/seen in a long time.

[HubblyBubbly613]

[quote name='NERV']one question ive always had but never got an answer too, why are there so many huge miracles in the bible, like the sun stopping, splitting an ocean etc, but no huge miracles happen now?[/quote]
According to the Jewish Mystical teachings, ("Mysti" is a Hebrew word) the definition of a miracle is any phenonemon that has never or rarely seen by man, while Nature is a miracle that we have gotten used to seeing. In Hebrew, the word for" nature"(Teva) is the exact numeral equivelant of "Creator"(Elohim).
But in Jewish law, we are forbidden to pray ever for a miracle or to believe it will happen, rather truat in GOD, and if he sees fit he Will oe Will not do it.
Tsunami, floods?Why don't all waves from the ocean keep comming and flooding th world?There is aCreator of the physical, but HE being with no beginning and no end, he is Above the physical.
PS, as we Humans are all pieces of GOD in his Creation puzzle, we are part of HIM, hence our belief that a higher power exists.
The problem starts when we tell each other how to serve GOD, that is not our job.Thats why Jews don't search for converts or kill non believers. By Jewish law, anyone wanting to convert must be pushed away by a Kosher Rabbi, and then if he can't live without beinng Jewish, he comes toit later by GOD's Will.
HubblyBubbly613

[HubblyBubbly613]

[quote name='slayman1']Ive only got one thing to say guys,GOD IS SO GREAT,that he created the HOOKAH!!!Now lets stop fighting over who's god is better and just be happy that we are living in this lifetime.Peace!!![/quote]
Thank YOU
Hubbly Bubly 613

[HubblyBubbly613]

[quote name='Dplomatic_Ape']I just have  afew points to make....Interesting discussion on everyone's part, for starters.....Now, please, bear with me....First, the way I see it, I don't see why we can comprehend a "God" of any form just existing, with no begining and no end, yet it is so hard to fathom the idea that matter  just exists, with no begining and no end. The make or break for me is the principle of the inability to create or destroy matter. The emphasis for destroy is on purpose. To assume that we can create matter would give us "god-like" abilities, and that doesn't really help my arguement. We can't go around assuming that we can go on creating something from nothing, a vaccum. However, we do have something, we know matter exists (I'll avoid the metaphysical discussion that this statement ignites...). Yet we cannot destroy what we have in front of us. and it is not just that we can't destroy, but we do not see in the state of nature the destruction of matter. This leads me to logically conclude that matter is her, has always been here, and will always be here.This by all means does not disprove god. Again, to challenge faith is a waste of time, faith is by no means challengeable. All that one can do is to try to reason their way to logical conclusions......Now, I'm going to enter the metaphysical realm and discuss a concept, or idea of god that i really liked.... This god, is Aristotle's notion of god. His discussion about god originates from his discussion about BEING. Basically, he concludes that there are many forms of BEING, and that there isn't just one (definition) Therefore, a human's BEING is not the same as a rose's, a cat's, or God. Now, what this means, then, is that there is a hierarchy of being. God, obviously is on top. Aristotle describe's God as PURE THOUGHT. God is a thinking being. Now the hieghest form of thought can only think about the highest BEING. Thus, God only thinks about itself, and CAN NOT think about any other form of being. Why, you ask? Because for God to not think about the highest (perfect) being would make the thought no longer perfect. Thus, God would not be perfect and no longer God. I can imagine that this is pretty hard to comprehend, so I will try to make an analogy or give a mental picture. Imagine a toy train set where the rails form a perfect circle. The entire track is covered, no space in between cars, meaning that the locomotive touches both the first car and the last car. This train can only move at a certain speed to go round the circle and not stop, or fall off the rails. This speed is perfection (the though of God). Any speed faster or slower is imperfect (all other forms of being) Thus the only way that could can be (exist) is to move at that perfect speed. Any deviation away is no longer perfection, no longer God, and neither god, nor anything else exists.Therefore, what is God's purpose? That's a strange question, because it's God, and God needs no purpose. But Aristotle does give one. And this is to serve as an unreachable point of perfection which all other forms of being (including humans) strive to achieve. And all beings have a cieling of how close to this perfection they can achieve. And it is this strive that moves all things (including inatimate objects such as rocks, stars, and the planets._____I think that this is a really cool idea, though I don't believe it myself. However, it allows for that disconnection from an active omnipresent being that interacts with us in one way or another. It provides us with an absolute independence and freedom, which I, as a Camusian existentialist, believe we have.[/quote]
Are you  a father, or an American, or a car driver, football fan, coat wearer, inhaler of oxygen, peaceful, son, daughter, brother, grandfather?Tourist?Well, you can be all of these, and more at once. It depends on your point of view.
Jewish Torah says 2 supposedly conflicting things. Firstly, to Know God as a Devine commandment.There are 613, not ten.But if I knew GOD, I'd be GOD.
We can get to know him, like afather can get to know his son somewhat, and then he becomes a teenager and now you don't know him at all. Can you know your wife? I've been married for Thank GOD 30 years to the same women, and I like what is mysterious about her just as much as I like what I do know. GOD is always changing, yet as humans, as pieces of HIM, we have Belief in HIM at the point where our knowledge of HIM starts to fail.I've been taught that GOD is loving, yet in Cambodia a million people were killed 30 years ago by their own government. A million and a half Armenians were killed by Turkey, 6 million Jews were killed, and around 25 million Russians were killed in various ways by Joe Stalin in the Gulags. Yet, I as a Jew have to believe, and I do,that GOD has his reasons.!! of my grandfather's sisters were murdered in Europe.Do I know about their various lives before this  one, their re-incarnations?Do I know who the True Judge is?Can I be  a non-criminal, or a criminal, or even a minor criminal and also be the Judge?
I notice that  someone from Byblos, Lebanon said its called Byblos because the Bible was written there.Fine.What about the Bible that GOD wrote?Ask HIM, he's not senile, and not deaf!Since all humans are a piece ofGOD, we are GODLY whenwe choose to be, or ..not GODLY.ADAM from the nme of the first man , in Hebrew means "Human", also, "I will try to be like my Creator".ADAMy leh elion"
Since we are parts of GOD now what is the purpose, NOT of GOD, likesaid before me, heneeds no purpose, but as a human in This physical realm, a soul, a piece of GOD brought down from the higher realms, My purpose is to serve HIM. The emphasis is on HIM, and that I should serve. (Probably not by killing people who disagree with me, since they are my equals.)
How serve GOD, well ASK HIM.He doesn't need a hearing aid, he'll give you an answer when HE's ready.
HubblyBubbly 613

[HubblyBubbly613]

[quote name='Nonbeliever']no, there is no god. and if there was, it would have to be a woman. How else could u explain all the pain and suffering in the world?[/quote]
News for you, GOD is everything, and if he created the magnificent womanhood, where did it come from, if not from HIM.All good things and worse, come from GOD. Woman in Judaism are the higher form, and I am a Rabi, not a woman.The mystical level that is the source of women is much higher than men. And yet as it falls through the physical creation of GOD, they fall deeper, and have a much greater share and job in making correcting This world, which is why "Woman IS the nigger of the World". In Judaism, the religon goes only after the mother. If the mother is Jewish and the father not Jewish, we see him as a Jew. If Opposite, the father Jewish and the woman not, he is non Jewish and does not have to serve the 613 commandments with their particulars, only 7.Judaism  shoiws physically and spiritully how the woman is a higher form. Who would you give a big diamond to safekeep, your drunken neighbor, or your  son, father, daughter, wife, etc?GOD gives a gestating life and body soul to the woman for 9 months in most cases, and the man has only a few minutes or less to do with the actual procreation. There are many books "without number"like it says in the Book of Proberbs in Hebrew, "A Woman of Valour, who can find?" This Proberb, like everything in Torah are GOD's words.Here King Solomon is praising his Queen, As GOD praises HIS peoples, and teaches each husband to praise his wife.(There are many nice linear translations out there)
HubblyBUBBLY613

[sheeshabum]

[quote name='HubblyBubbly613'][quote name='Nonbeliever']no, there is no god. and if there was, it would have to be a woman. How else could u explain all the pain and suffering in the world?[/quote]
News for you, GOD is everything, and if he created the magnificent womanhood, where did it come from, if not from HIM.All good things and worse, come from GOD. Woman in Judaism are the higher form, and I am a Rabi, not a woman.The mystical level that is the source of women is much higher than men. And yet as it falls through the physical creation of GOD, they fall deeper, and have a much greater share and job in making correcting This world, which is why "Woman IS the nigger of the World". In Judaism, the religon goes only after the mother. If the mother is Jewish and the father not Jewish, we see him as a Jew. If Opposite, the father Jewish and the woman not, he is non Jewish and does not have to serve the 613 commandments with their particulars, only 7.Judaism  shoiws physically and spiritully how the woman is a higher form. Who would you give a big diamond to safekeep, your drunken neighbor, or your  son, father, daughter, wife, etc?GOD gives a gestating life and body soul to the woman for 9 months in most cases, and the man has only a few minutes or less to do with the actual procreation. There are many books "without number"like it says in the Book of Proberbs in Hebrew, "A Woman of Valour, who can find?" This Proberb, like everything in Torah are GOD's words.Here King Solomon is praising his Queen, As GOD praises HIS peoples, and teaches each husband to praise his wife.(There are many nice linear translations out there)
HubblyBUBBLY613
[/quote] No  God? How is that known? Can I say that you don't have a mother, grandmother, or brother if I never met you or don't know where you live?
Can people see your intelligence on a pure level?Well, if not does that mean  you aren't smart?Get Smart.
Sheeshabum

[SMOKE~N~BUBBLZ]

 
Well thank GOD i am atheist....
 
Well i am not actually, i am Druze. We beleive in God in a sense that there is a greater being, We beleive in Mohammed, Jesus and Mose and abraham but in teh sense they are messangers or prophets of god. Our religion is a more of a Philosophical one, What i hate most is when people say your god......God, Allah, Buddah are all teh same we just refer to them in differnt ways. What i can not stand in religion is teh whole "do as we say or burn in hell"....it should be a way of life not a set of commands.....

[coldfire22x]

[quote name='[lebanese_blonde']]
[quote name='Highpockets']Agnostic. I'd like to believe in a higher power, there really is no way to know for sure though.[/quote]
How about rather than thinking your religion is
right, accept that all religions are not.

[/quote]

i too am agnostic, despite being raised as a methodist with my mother
later converting to catholocism.  and god bless her because she is
just as accepting of my faith (or lack thereof ;p) as i am of hers.

but i've always enjoyed the thought that each religion is merely a
small piece of a larger puzzle.  i.e., no single religion is
necessarily wrong, but rather, they only have chapters 1 and 2 from a
book of a thousand chapters.

i don't feel like typing out a whole book about all of my views ;P, but
i would like to say that i would enjoy, immensely, smoking a hookah
with any of you and talking about religion.

[mushrat]

I say why worry...? Not to be flip or disrespectful, but why spend time pondering if there is a higher power or what happens when you die? You'll find out about an afterlife soon enough, and as far as a higher being, I've seen bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people, if there is a GOD controlling these things he/she/it has a warped and dangerous sense of right and wrong (thus not worthy of my worship or respect. Like a kid stomping on an ant hill)...or perhaps just a strange sense of humor (even more dangerous, spend your whole life afraid of being the butt of the next joke).
Live your life in a way that makes you happy. Not for anyone elses sake, but for your own, here and now. If the lifestyle you pick also benifits others, and there is a "heaven" for good people, then BONUS for you. If not, hopefully you had plenty of joy in your life and brought some joy to others.
$.03

[Ratman12304]

"Live your life in a way that makes you happy.  Not for anyone elses sake, but for your own, here and now."
I believe that's exactly why bad things happend to good people and vice versa.  God gave us free will.  He allows us to make our own decisions, and painfully sits back and watches the consequence unfold.  Could God stop world hunger?  Yes, I believe he could.  But not without taking our freedom of choice away.  Freedom has a price, and that price has to be paid by someone.  If you decide to get in a car after having one too many beers that's you're choice, but when you hit and kills someone, it wasn't God's fault, it was yours.  But does that mean God doesn't love us?  I think not.  How loved would we feel if our hand was forced?  I believe one of God's greatest characteristics was his ability to hand some of his power over to us.  How many people do you know that are willing to do that?  Is God all powerful, yes, but by his own choice he gave that up to give us free will.  Someone once told me that a person's ability to do good is only matched by their ability to do evil. 
Do I believe in God?  Yes, with all my heart.  I am a Christian and I fully believe in Jesus.  In response to one of your statments Mathazar, there is no way it would have been the Roman's who created Christianity.  Before Constantine made Christianity the offical religion of Rome, Christians were brutally persecuted by the Romans for decades.  Nero and Domitian hunted and killed thousands.  Read the Martyrdom of Polycarp.  The early Christian church had to overcome more than its fair share before their message started to reach the masses.
In response to someone's claim that Jews can't go to heaven, that it totally untrue. After Jesus' death the disciples were strickly evangelizing to Jews.  Peter's speech on the day of Pentecost, when thousands were saved and recieved the holy spirit, that was to Jews.  The apostles didn't start reaching out to Gentiles until Paul received his vision from God.  Even then it took some convicing to convince the other apostles that Gentiles could enter the kingdom of God.  Even after that many people tried to circimsize the Gentiles (sign of entering into the Jewish faith) before they would allow them to accept Christ.  So can Jews go to heaven?  Yes, if they believe in Jesus Christ.
Now, I know this forum was originally meant to be a place were people could come and voice their religous views.  I in now way mean to tell people what to believe, I just try to set some things straight about my belief.  Honeslty, I know there are gray area's in what I believe, thats why it sometimes takes faith. I personally would love to learn more about Islam and their belief structure. 
All I know is that I am not perfect and I mess up just as much as the next guy.  Thats why I need Jesus, he saved me by his death on the cross and I am saved by his grace, not by my works.  If I were saved by my actions i'd be as screwed as anyone.  Thats the beauty of Christ, his sacrifice covers all sin.  

[LoneWolf367]

First off I would like to say that this is as long as I can remember
the most intelligent discussion about religion I have ever come across
in any forums. It's intelligent voice and opinion, not mindless bashing
and choas and hostility towards one another.

Me, I am a Christian. I believe in Jesus Christ, his resurrection and
salvation. Why I'm a Christian? I suck. I need Jesus simply because I
suck and I'm a screw up. I came to knowing my savior after meeting with
friends in a time where I was at a extreme low and was having
psychological problems (to say the least) and they recommended I try
praying and going to Church. I did this and after only a few short
weeks my illnesses were cured, shortly after, I accepted Jesus as Lord
and Savior. Faith is a very hard thing to have, especially for someone
like me who loves to be in control and try and run my own show.

I'm not going to argue for or against since I think personal testimony
and first hand account is the most persasive and powerful thing one can
put forth. We are natively spirtual beings and you can see that
throughout time as totally disconnected peoples and cultures around the
world have always had gods which they worship. And even though this is
true the fight over what is truth and who is god happens to be the
number one cause of war in the world. This is one of the saddest and
most confusing things as religion is suppose to help us and bring us
closer together, not tear us apart and cause bloodshed.

[[LB]]

i dont think therese a god, not only because most of the scripts gods are based on are bullsh*t- i think its man's invention to answer unsolvable questions. As far as I know for sure- is that you die, and id assume you just rot in the ground, considering nobody has ever come back from 'heaven' or 'hell' so live your life cause you only got one- this knowing how great it would be to believe there is a heaven, but id rather live my life.

[afrdzak]

I was reading through the NPR page and I saw this article by Penn Jillette.  I thought it was an interesting read and it reminded me of this forum topic.
--------------------------------------------
I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy -- you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word "elephant" includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire?
So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power. All the people I write e-mails to often are still stuck at this searching stage. The atheism part is easy.
But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."
Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day.
Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around.
Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, "How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.
Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.
Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have.

[Sonthert]

The principle of there being a God is absurd...I've read various stuff and I'm 75% sure that Jesus was a fictional character. The other 25% is that he was real and his piston didn't quite make it to the top of the cylinder...I also don't like the fated"Everything happens for a reason" which is a corollary of "Its all part of God's Plan." Silly, silly, sillyThere was a time, 100 years ago or so, people didn't understand how babies were made...God was the explanation. Science has shown that isn't true AND only a certified looney would say that egg and sperm connecting wasn't the way it happened. Celestial mechanics and Astrophysics know enough right now to dispell the idea that God created the ujniverse, it just hasn't hit the mainstream yet.With religion there comes fanacticism and hatred. IF we all just lived together and realized we all have one life together, things would be alot more peaceful...without fanacticism, how could you convince somebody to go kill another human, with a gun while you watched? That's why the fanacticism of the military has to be bolstered by invoking nationalism and religious faith...to get them to kill other humans.

[dizzing]

very good points, a lot of people use god as an excuse for their own actions.  honestly, it seems pretty absurd considering that if there WERE a god, i really don't see why he'd be taking sides on issues (ESPECIALLY if everything in the world was "all part of god's plan")plus, i just wanted to point out (in response to a MUCH earlier post on this thread) that as far as I know, hitler didn't do what he did in the name of christ.  he did it in the name of germany, which is far more practical (if abhorrent in practice).

[Joseph]

Well, I practice Theravada Buddhism, so i don't believe in a god. 
My roomate is a Vaishnava (I don't know if i spelled that right) and we
have great discussions while smoking our hookah.  

[Joseph]

Just so everyone knows, Vaishnava is a form of hinduism.

[Marcus9638]

I do believe in God, but I firmly believe that we haven't defined "Him" yet.  What I know in my gut is that God is not a man with a flowing beard sitting atop a throne, waiting eagerly to thunder down judgment upon us all.  That's a vengeful man's idea of who God is;  it's the hopeful embodiment of those who have nothing but contempt for other people.  There are so many people in the world who either lack personal power or relish those whom they think have it, and the only way they can inflict any sort of control over those they fear might be uncontrollable is to insist that there is eternal damnation for the ones who don't fall to their knees in shame and humility. 
I like people, mostly.  Nobody can love everyone, but I do feel that we need each other and need to be as understanding as we can as to the human condition.  Everyone makes mistakes, sins, gets angry and does things that seem unreasonable, etc.  But instead of being hypocritical (which many times I become) we need to understand that the distasteful things we see in others might very well be the same things we see in ourselves. 
God, to me, is everything.  It's love, to be sure, but it's also the universe, the planet we live on, the keyboard that I'm using to type, etc, etc.  Not to get all Matrix-y but "God" is a construct, the elemental fabric that makes up all things that we perceive in reality:  trees, stars, mountains, sunlight, tables, chairs, hookahs and smoke rings (had to throw that in there).  Why on earth would anyone believe that we are all doomed to burn just because we THOUGHT about having sex with another person's wife, husband, partner, etc.  That idea is too simple, too human.  No being that would be vastly intelligent enough to have created all that we see before us could ever be so simplistic in its ideas of morality. 
Anyway, I could go on and on, but I believe that we're basically here to learn and to grow.  And we do that by acts of kindness and evil, both.  If we try to understand that we're no different from one another in that respect then we can let go of our fear of differences and free ourselves from the hatred-of-difference that so many religions are founded on. 
There's my two cents.
Marcus

[Sonthert]

I like your direction, Marcus, but I have to poke slightly. There is no god, there is only ignorance that is explained away by mystical mumblings. The only thing we have to worry about is the human condition. It is, among rational noble men, the only thing to worry about. Your God didn't invent the keyboard you are typing on anymore than he created light bulbs, hookahs or matches. Men, and to a lesser extent, the race of man created those. Anymore than god created the solar system and the stars and the universe. They, in fact, created us, in a manner of speaking. I look around the world and say "MY, it is beautiful." I stop to smell flowers, and they smell good. I like the world. How could something conscious create such a beautiful place? How could a god create something so beautiful? And, if he did, why would he leave it? Whatever I create, I like to stay around to help to make it better; not abandon it. It is called conscience. If I am wrong, and your God exists, then he has no conscience. As far as your thoughts of adultery spawning eternal damnation...Thats whats nice about believing in your own values...if you want to go make it with Mrs. Jones next door, you can, if you think its wrong, you won't. Either way, you do it on your own terms, not following a set of rules from fear or aversion to "hell". You know, I find it interesting, though you, are in a large and growing group of people who "believe in God" but not his holy scriptures. You invent new and different ways to believe in God and create your own little world view...how do you justify that? Don't you think its presumptious to decide what God is, antithetical to what his holy scriptures are?

[Marcus9638]

Hey Tangiers,
First I want to give respect to your insightful, well-written post.  You sound like you're a man who knows, decidedly, what he believes in and sticks to it.  That's a somewhat rare stance to take because a lot of people - myself included - tend to vascillate from time to time. 
You caught me on a few points which I'd like to explain in further detail to help clarify them.  You say that there is no "God".  In disagreeing with that, I'd like to say that I used the word God when perhaps I should have used something like "The Creative Force", etc.  That's what I meant when I started off my post by saying that I don't believe we've defined who God is.  I just believe that there is a force, energy, what have you, that enables the materials to exist that create my keyboard and then, once manufactured, allows it to stay in a hardened physical form rather than if it were made of ice and melted on contact.  It's the same energy that allows dogs to smell fear, that makes leaves fall off of trees when autumn comes and then regrows them in spring, that gives the spark of life to any animal upon coming out of the womb (or at some time during its stay there) or egg. 
I'm always amazed and oddly inspired by those who have deep religious convictions.  I tend to ask myself if they know something I don't.  What do they see that I can't?  Am I just too cynical?  That's where I vascillate.  But I always come back to my gut feeling that this life force that created and sustains the universe is so much more complex than a set of scriptures on how to live your life;  scriptures that are so numerous and contradictory that it's amazing they're believed in and followed at all.
As far as your comment on my beliefs about adultery, etc, I'm not sure if you felt that I subscribe to the idea that sin or adultery causes damnation but  I'd like to clarify - if that's what you meant - that I don't feel that way.  I was hoping to make a point by saying that how can we be damned to "hell" simply by what we think?  You might not have been implying that, though, but I wanted to add this just in case you felt that that was my belief.
Finally, only your last paragraph insulted me a bit.  The rest of what you wrote was very intelligent but when you stated that people like me who believe in "God" "create your own little world view" it cheapened and belittled my opinion.  I don't like the word "little" when used to reduce someone's comments.  You also asked if it wasn't "presumptuous to decide what God is, antithetical to what his holy scriptures are?"  Again, I thought I was being clear in the very beginning of my post by saying that I don't believe that we've defined God yet.  I should have been more detailed in saying that I don't subscribe to any particular religious beliefs, and therefore the inherent scriptures.  The scriptures are the very thing that bother me the most.  I don't believe I have all the answers or can provide accurate insight into the exact definition of what or who created all of this, but I know in my gut that this isn't all a great "accident" and that we're the lucky beneficiaries of it. 
Thanks again for your reply.  There's nothing I love more than comparative religion and an open discussion as to everyone's take on the whole topic.
Marcus

[Abdullah]

Raised a Roman Catholic, becoming an agnostic at age 9, because the Church told me I was damned for eating meat on Friday (then, a fast day) unless I repented in Confession, then an atheist after reading Ayn Rands excellent Atlas Shrigged,; I discovered Al Qur'an in Africa thirty-five years ago.Recently I renewed a superficial commitment to Islaam, the Shahuda -- La ilaha illa Allaah; Muhammad rasu Allaah (There is no god but God; Muhammad is prophet of God) -- five times:  thus becoming Muslim:  this time I prayed God would guide me and not allow me to be deceived nor try to deceive, to be sincere if Islaam be 'the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,' a prayer I renew now.God draws men to Islaam; what I can do is advise the large Amana edition of Al Qur'an, with Commentary by Mummad Yusuf Ali, available through online Islamic bookstores for under $20 (BN & Amazon carry the smaller page/print editions of this work).  The Arabic calligraphy, side-by-side with the English translation of Ali's reading of the meaning, is gorgeous, beign done by an Indian Muslim, as was Ali, in 1932-37.  The teaching of the Commentary is vital to understand the work; the attitude is classical by the widely read Ali, who blithely quotes Wordsworth, Shakespeare, and Bible.  To listen to the Arabic original, folowed surah-by-surah by English, is also vital, because the language is mystical, mantra-like -- the Shalimar Al Qur'an is superb, in 43 CDs for $110.  A CD or book on Salaat, daily prayer, and one on the Arabic alphabet is likewise needful -- there being no awful pressure immediately to perform all things (the five pillars) pharasaically, but rather the spirit of Islaam, 'Surrender to Allah'. I am learning the salaat (prayer) gradually, praying five times a day and consulting the Islamic Cultural Center, in Eugene, Oregon, 20 miles away.If GOD draws you to Islaam, whatever your religious or philosophical background, Allah bless, protect, guide you and give you grace of fidelity in the trials which come with the faith -- especially the spritual battles.Compliments to rabi ('Rab' means 'Cherisher, Nurturer' in Arabic; the same in Hebrew?) "Hubblybubble", "Ratman...", and other beautiful people!If anyone else is a muslim here, won't you kindly E-mail be at brookbat[at]msn.com ?Peace and good will to all of you all, of every beautiful and sincere belief;  Salaam!Abdullah Muhammad BrooksbatsonOregon, USA