Serious Discussion Forum

[LuxOR541]

I'm all about free speech, so I don't think we should axe it to prevent petty forum squabbles. The problem does not lie in the ability to discuss topics of a sensitive nature, teh problems arise when someone outsteps the code of conduct and personally attacks a poster because of their opinion. Threats and innapropriate comments can be made in any forum. It's not just isolated to the serious discussion forum. I think an off-topic section to the forums is a vital part of the community feel of this board. it's great that we can come here and discuss hookah, and converse about other topics with people who share in interest in hookah culture.

However, it does seem a bit redundant to have TWO off topic sections, IE the serious discussion forum and the general chit chat forum. There isn't really a distict line as to where a lot of topics from either forum should go. Maybe a general off topic discussion forum would be easier to moderate than two separate forums.

Just my $.02

but then again, freedom costs a buck-o-five.....

[DizzyGuy]

Get rid of it.

EDIT: Then again... I don't use it so it doesn't matter to me. I just don't like getting caught up and dealing with people getting hard feelings because of a difference of opinion.

[shimshamsam]

i personally like the serious discussion section, though there are those that forget that there is no dispute in taste, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion i think that the majority of us can handle ourselves in a sensible adult manner.

[skiracerj1]

In regard to people who have posted here saying get rid of it even though they have never used, I dont think that your opinions should matter in this case, simply because if you've never used it then what does it matter to you? Its never caused you any issue so just go on keeping ignoring it (which I have no problem with you doing). There are too many idiots in the world to not expect problems to arise on a forum like that, but also its just words on a screen so if someones being a dick just ignore them and dont respond to them and keep the REAL discussion between those being respectful and thoughtful. As for the its not hookah realted argument I'm going to refer to what Scheetz said in that I like being able to banter with you guys, it helps us to get to know one another and get beyond just a screen name, which is nice and creates a better sense of community on the forum. All communties have problems but they have ways of dealing with it. I dont know if it would be possible with the board's programming but maybe create a sort of "neighborhood watch" in that people can flag a post as being abusive and if enough people flag it (say 5 to 10 people) it will be temporarily removed until a moderator can look at it or something. Again I dont know if something like that is even possible but its just an idea.

[LuxOR541]

I dont know if it would be possible with the board's programming but maybe create a sort of "neighborhood watch" in that people can flag a post as being abusive and if enough people flag it (say 5 to 10 people) it will be temporarily removed until a moderator can look at it or something. Again I dont know if something like that is even possible but its just an idea.

Hey now that's an idea.... sort of a we police ourselves kind of thing? that might take a little of the pressure off the mods. If it's possible that might be a good idea....

Edited to add: Now that I look at it, each post has a "report" button on it that someone can send a message to the mods about that particular post. Looks liek we've sort fo already got this ability..... Edited December 13, 2006 by LuxOR541

[mushrat]

This is all fine to discuss what can happen if everyone plays like an adult, follows the rules of conduct, doesn't squabble. People have had the oppertunities to follow these very standards, and too many have chosen NOT to. As someone pointed out, suspensions don't work, bannings don't work, warnings don't work. Some folks just believe that what they have to say overrides any rules and its their right to say it. And then others, seeing an outrageous statement, link, post, what have you, figure its free for all time and the complaints come rolling in that the mods have to deal with. Which, while keeping the peace is part of our jobs, removing the same topics over and over Muslim/anti muslem, christian/anti christian, US occupation, israeli occupation, etc gets old, and these topics are NEVER going to discussed calmly for long, because out there int the real world, people are KILLING each other over these very subjects. And these are the subjects that come up in a serious discussion area..Religion and politics...are there any 2 more serious topics among the diverse people of the world (and this forum)? well..sex, but we won't go there for fear of offending soemone and then we can fight over that.

I can get to know someone quite well without knowing how they feel about us/Iraqi relations. I can enjoy talking about smoking a bowl of al amir blackberry without knowing that X's 3rd cousin was killed in a bomb blast and now they hate all of some group. I repete..this ISN'T the place. This is a social club. If people want to get to know each other better than socially with music, hookah, and your favorite video game, exchange AIM addresses, e-mail, PM I don't care, but keep it out of the public forum.

As for people who don't post in the serious section not having a say, if what hapened there stayed there, perhaps, but it doesn't. it spreads into the regual posts, into signatures, into locations. So EVERYONE has a stake in keeping the entire forum calm and friendly.

Alas, this isn't really a democracy and you all don't really have free speach. Read the agreement you clicked on when you got your membership, read the posted rules. You say something against the rules, you can be removed from this forum and not allowed to speak your mind. Sorry, but thats the way it is. There are other places where you can pretty much say what ever you want no matter out derrogatory, inflamitory, or incidiery. This isn't one of them.

[mushrat]

and for the record, the missing post is untouched, intact, merely invisible. It can be reinstated in its original location if need be. but at this poiont, it doesn't need be.

[azcoyote]

It must be a real pain in the ass to have to police serious discussions for politically incorrect and offensive posts. Better to set up a bare knuckles ring where we can rant to our hearts content. Hell I can't even say anything that could possibly be construed as offensive in my own blog here. What the point? I have been wanting to post something concerning various world religions and middle east politics. I am afraid my honest views will be branded as "inflammatory." Well sometimes a small fire clears out the underbrush and preserves the forest. How can we possibly reconcile any of the conflicts of the world when we can't even express ourselves? This world is headed for a train wreck. If there was ever a time for serious discussion and thought, methinks it would be right now.

[mushrat]

It must be a real pain in the ass to have to police serious discussions for politically incorrect and offensive posts. Better to set up a bare knuckles ring where we can rant to our hearts content. Hell I can't even say anything that could possibly be construed as offensive in my own blog here. What the point? I have been wanting to post something concerning various world religions and middle east politics. I am afraid my honest views will be branded as "inflammatory." Well sometimes a small fire clears out the underbrush and preserves the forest. How can we possibly reconcile any of the conflicts of the world when we can't even express ourselves? This world is headed for a train wreck. If there was ever a time for serious discussion and thought, methinks it would be right now.

No arguements..but NOT in a hookah forum. There have got to be political forums to take these cobversations to arent there? why can't we just keep HOOKAHFORUM.COM for hookahs. Give us some sort of refuge to talk about pleasant things like hookah smoking. Must everything become political? I know there are a whole lot more good political forums out there than there are Hookah forums. Can't we keep this one for Hookahs?

[yashman19]

My feelings exactly Mush.

[[LB]]

I would say that it serves no purpose apart from to create further divides amoungst the forum.

Maybe we would still have KingMo around if it wasn't for this part of the forum.

Just my 2p's worth.

JD

I didnt like king mo, the serious discussion forum is important in showing a persons character beyond the 'hookah posts' so why not? i was glad to learn that mo was so singleminded and thats partly thanks to the serious discussion forum.

[[LB]]

No arguements..but NOT in a hookah forum. There have got to be political forums to take these cobversations to arent there? why can't we just keep HOOKAHFORUM.COM for hookahs. Give us some sort of refuge to talk about pleasant things like hookah smoking. Must everything become political? I know there are a whole lot more good political forums out there than there are Hookah forums. Can't we keep this one for Hookahs?

your right about that, there shouldnt be full blown arguments, but hookah culture goes beyond just the hookah. If youve ever sat down with a few friends and smoked hookah with them you find very quickly that your topic of conversation could be classified as 'serious discussion'. this is an important part of hookah culture, now weather it should be part of an internet forum that is your decision.

[rattler]

Hookah smoking gives a person plenty of time to contemplate life...including the more serious subjects in life. It's natural to have a section for serious discussions HOWEVER everyone who posts there should be well mannered and not trolling for a argument. Those that choose to ignore the etiquette should receive punishment.

[Lakemonster]

An interesting twist to this......

This is, in reality, no longer a Hookah Message Board, but rather, a Hookah Community. A community. This forum has doubled if not better since I signed up. The inertia gathered by its weight outways it boundaries.

At this point, dodging trolls and expecting the populus to be utopian is futile.

A community understands its foundations. All here understand that Hookah is what we all find in common... like the foundation of a home. Communities , however, are large enough to the point where the question has to be asked at some point: "Who are you?"

Who we are is not easily determined by whether we smoke hookah or not, thats an established understanding, but rather, who we are....and that can only be discovered by finding out more about each other than how hookah is smoked.

Noblesse Oblige Edited December 14, 2006 by Lakemonster

[mushrat]

An interesting twist to this......

This is, in reality, no longer a Hookah Message Board, but rather, a Hookah Community. A community. This forum has doubled if not better since I signed up. The inertia gathered by its weight outways it boundaries.

At this point, dodging trolls and expecting the populus to be utopian is futile.

A community understands its foundations. All here understand that Hookah is what we all find in common... like the foundation of a home. Communities , however, are large enough to the point where the question has to be asked at some point: "Who are you?"

Who we are is not easily determined by whether we smoke hookah or not, thats an established understanding, but rather, who we are....and that can only be discovered by finding out more about each other than how hookah is smoked.

Noblesse Oblige

well said, but cleaning up te frequent messses is getting REAL old.
Understand, its not that it COULDN"'T work out well, its just that it HASN'T.
plus look at the majority of the posts in the serious area..they would mostly fit fine in the chit chat.

[Lakemonster]

An interesting twist to this......

This is, in reality, no longer a Hookah Message Board, but rather, a Hookah Community. A community. This forum has doubled if not better since I signed up. The inertia gathered by its weight outways it boundaries.

At this point, dodging trolls and expecting the populus to be utopian is futile.

A community understands its foundations. All here understand that Hookah is what we all find in common... like the foundation of a home. Communities , however, are large enough to the point where the question has to be asked at some point: "Who are you?"

Who we are is not easily determined by whether we smoke hookah or not, thats an established understanding, but rather, who we are....and that can only be discovered by finding out more about each other than how hookah is smoked.

Noblesse Oblige

well said, but cleaning up te frequent messses is getting REAL old.
Understand, its not that it COULDN"'T work out well, its just that it HASN'T.
plus look at the majority of the posts in the serious area..they would mostly fit fine in the chit chat.

Tell me about it........ Ive done it for the last 5 and 1/2 years at a "politics" board. (once again)

The Wright Bros. and T. Edison had to deal with the fact that "IT" hadnt worked. They tried a different approach to succeed.

Thirdly....... good point.

[fizzgig]

Anyway you look at it there will be messes to clean up. This forum has really taken off in terms of membership. Seems to me that it would actually be easier to police if we kept the serious forum, rather than having these types of discussions mixed in with chit chat and other forums. There are many members that don't care to participate in the serious discussions. Seems like if people start posting this type of thing on the other forums that it'll become a pain for them, as well. I personally enjoy reading the serious discussions... it is actually my favorite forum. I don't post much but then again...I don't post much anywhere. The search feature has answered most of my questions pertaining to hookah. I'm blathering now, so sorry, but what I mean with over 2000 members peoplle will continue to post serious topics, like it or not. Best to keep it "quarantined" in the serious forum. JMHO.

[mushrat]

I understand, but the problem is it doesn't STAY in the serious area..it has always spilled over.
If it is removed entirely, then religious/political discussions will also be restricted. Doesn't mean you all can't talk about it between yourselves in pm's and the like, just means it won't be an open issue problem. It'll be easier to police actually. We'll nip them in the bud when they show up in the chit chat BEFORE they get out of hand, instead of letting them run until they get out of hand and then have to run around putting out fires.

As I said, this is just one of the things we've been talking about in the mod area and y'alls input IS important. But as you can see, no one solution is going to make evryone happy, and I hope those that may end up not getting their wish will go along with whatever is chosen.

Feel free to continue to chime in, nothing is going to happen over night...

In the words of Barles and James "we appriciate your support."

[angemonkwj]

why not just combine the 2 forums into a "watercooler" discussion forum. a place where anything can be talked about. also if there is a way, make it so that maybe only people with a certain amount of posts can post in that forum.

[ASUSEAN1]

IMO people need to take the stick outta their ass and jus chill. people get all worked up over something so stupid (talking about the topics inside the serious discussion forum). people have different mind sets about things, sweet! you dont have to agree with them but your not gonna change anything flipping out on a forum. seriously people, jus relax.. we are all cool here. peace

[azcoyote]

It must be a real pain in the ass to have to police serious discussions for politically incorrect and offensive posts. Better to set up a bare knuckles ring where we can rant to our hearts content. Hell I can't even say anything that could possibly be construed as offensive in my own blog here. What the point? I have been wanting to post something concerning various world religions and middle east politics. I am afraid my honest views will be branded as "inflammatory." Well sometimes a small fire clears out the underbrush and preserves the forest. How can we possibly reconcile any of the conflicts of the world when we can't even express ourselves? This world is headed for a train wreck. If there was ever a time for serious discussion and thought, methinks it would be right now.

No arguements..but NOT in a hookah forum. There have got to be political forums to take these cobversations to arent there? why can't we just keep HOOKAHFORUM.COM for hookahs. Give us some sort of refuge to talk about pleasant things like hookah smoking. Must everything become political? I know there are a whole lot more good political forums out there than there are Hookah forums. Can't we keep this one for Hookahs?

OK. Fine. This can be just for hookahs. I agreed to abide by the rules here and will honor that. It just seems a shame that with our diverse and international membership - we can't use the forum to foster better understanding among opposing groups. At least here, those groups have one thing in common. A passion for hookah. It's shaky, but it is a common ground of sorts. It's sad we some bad apples don't have the self-dicipline for that. But frankly, I've enjoyed the serious discussions, even the uncivil ones. If people want to post rabid bs, it only reflects on them, don't you think? People tend to take their whole argument less seriously when they take cheap shots. I have have participated in and judged formal debates in college, I can tell you that logical argument wins every time over ad hominem invective.

The science of debate is in a. Presenting a consisitent and logical positiion and b. Identifying inconsistency and exposing false logic in your opponent's argument.
The art of debate is in doing the above with a pleasant tone and understated manner. This is ultimately the most persuasive approach. There is a feeling of mastery unlike anything else when one totally evicerates an opponent's argument with a mild, calm, logical approach. One can even smile.

So I'll put on my rose colored glasses when I visit the forum. Smoke some rose shisha and btw which would be better to munch on with that? Pistachios or Gummy Bears. Think I'll start a poll.

[Dragonsmettle]

I havnt read all the posts on here, im just too damn lazy, but i get the jist of it so ill offer my opinion for what its worth.
I think the Serious forum should be kept on. My reasoning? well although yeah a few topics get out of hand not all of em do, and some are pretty interesting to read and offer ones opinions. Like someone already stated we are all adults, if you get offended so much as too leave the forum or not like a person anymore then i say good ridance. If i was like that i wouldnt like anyone, all my friends have different opinions, religouns, ect. and our conversations can get heated at times, but at the end we just shrug it off and go on to new conversations. If you get offended so easily dont read the forum stick to the hookah parts. its taking away from some peoples entertainment cause some get offended. Thats like that whole transfat banning in states, "hey dudes just because some people bitch and moan about transfats doesnt mean get rid of it entierly, i happen to like transfats" (I have no idea what transfats are or why they were banned and neither do i care, just an example, although perhaps a bad one)
anyways thats my opinion.

[[LB]]

An interesting twist to this......

This is, in reality, no longer a Hookah Message Board, but rather, a Hookah Community. A community. This forum has doubled if not better since I signed up. The inertia gathered by its weight outways it boundaries.

At this point, dodging trolls and expecting the populus to be utopian is futile.

A community understands its foundations. All here understand that Hookah is what we all find in common... like the foundation of a home. Communities , however, are large enough to the point where the question has to be asked at some point: "Who are you?"

Who we are is not easily determined by whether we smoke hookah or not, thats an established understanding, but rather, who we are....and that can only be discovered by finding out more about each other than how hookah is smoked.

Noblesse Oblige

well said

[Scheetz]

Just make the serious discussion a Free For A Lounge. Let people post what they want, and let them get flamed when they have an ignorant post. Many forums do this and everything works out fine. I have never seen someone carry a serious discussion post into a normal thread about hookahs. Granted you guys seem a bit quick on the "editing of the posts" so there may be some things I have missed.

However, like I said, I have never seen on any forum someone come into a regular thread after a serious discussion thread and flame that person for having a stupid idea or telling them they are ignorant.

If you keep this strictly to hookahs, it will be come boring and while we gain members we will lose them at the same rate.


ALSO, I really think mods need to just relax and stop policing hardcore. Just relax and let things go as they go, you will implode if you sit here all day trying to clean up everyone's post. If your afraid someone will not like that person anymore, so be it. Point me in the direction of 1 person in this world who likes everyone they meet and I will gladly agree you should edit everything.

[Dragonsmettle]

i like everyone i meet!!!............. damn i cant lie, acctually i hate everyone i meet until i get to know them, and if there alright i start to like them, if they turn out to be an ass then i wont be shocked