Palestine

[tuma al Zrai]

Ok, we all heard about the Palestinian elections, and the idea pf a peace conferance and all that. Yet it seems to me that there were other prolonged periods of quiet, when Arafat was still alive. Why didn't Sharon act then? It almost seems that Arafat was the last martyr, he had to die before Sharon would make  realistic demands. I just wanted to know you're thoughts and opinions abou the whole subject, Ranging from Zionism to Hezbollah to Harakat al Islamiya, the wall, Palestine, any thing related to things like this.

[Highpockets]

I am very skeptical of Sharon, which leads me to take a perhaps quite
cynical view of the whole dealings here. I see one of two reasons for
this sudden change in tone, 1) perhaps he wants to make Abbas seem
effective as a leader in contrast to Arafat because he hates Arafat so
much and wants to tarnish his legacy by making him seem like a do
nothing leader or 2) he knows that Abbas does not have the type of
control over groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad to make a ceasefire
successful, thus he can shred his credibility by imposing an unteneble
ceasefire which, when broken by militants, will give Israel the upper
hand again. Perhaps he is truthful in his resolve to seek peace,
certainly pulling out of Gaza is helpful, but once again speculation is
that this move is meant to only get a stronger hold on settlements in
the West Bank. Sharon has not proven to me that he wants a stable
situation in the region, so until he does I will look upon his moves
with caution.

[Ghaleon]

I agree with Highpockets; hopeful but skeptical.  It seems like a very drastic change...

[tuma al Zrai]

true, true. Keep in mind this guy (Sharon) supervised Sabra and Shatilla, he was the commanding general on duty and order "logistical aid" be given to the Falange/LF/SLA in the camps. He has also been rumored to have been involved with the Qana massacre in 10996

[Aggroman]

I think Sharon's recent approach to Gaza is similar to the Israeli
decision to return the Sinai to Egypt. It has become more
of a hassle for them to hold on to the territory and it is much more
worthwhile for them to focus on annexing parts of the West bank that
are much more valuable to them.

Of course, it is a good thing that Sharon has finally given back the
Gaza strip to the Palestinians (something that should have never been
stolen in the first place), but it is important for the international
community to continue pressure on Israel to end the occupation
entirely.  Sharon is hoping that his "benevolant" gesture will
reduce this kind of pressure while he pursues annexation of other areas
(like those Palestinian lands contained in the wall).

Hezbollah I think is a wonderful organization that has done a lot of
good for Lebanon, not only helping to end the Israeli occupation of
their country, but providing a lot of help for the community.  The
trouble is, even full withdrawal from the occupied territories may not
appease them.  They are indeed interested in the "destruction" of
Israel in its present form.

Now this "destruction" not to be confused with pushing all the jews in
the sea.  It is changing Isreal from a racist, apartheid, JEWISH
state to a truly democratic JEWISH AND ARAB state with equal rights for
all its citizens INCLUDING those it has expelled.  That means the
right-to-return for Arabs as well as Jews.

Is Hezbollah demanding too much?  Morally, no. 
Realistically, maybe.  I don't see this change coming for a long
time, if ever, but this is what will have to happen if peace is ever to
be acheived. 

[Lakemonster]

My take on it all is that there is actually no wish for peace or a desire to live amongst each other.
I think that under the surface each sides agenda is the same. Kill the other side off. There is no "just" side on this one.
IMHO.
 

[Aggroman]

Jews and Arabs have lived amongst one another for many centuries
peacefully in the same land with respect for one another's culture and
religion. Only the most extreme tiny fanatical fringe on
each side would actually advocate "killing the other side off"...

And there is a just side here.  That's the side that wants full
Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories and the
right-of-return for Palestinians to their homeland.  It's the side
that wants the same rights for Palestinians as they do for
Israelis.  It's the side without preferential racist attitudes
towards one group of the other.

This has been the position taken by the international community for
many years, yet Isreal has rejected more UN resolutions than one can
count.  Until Isreal gives up its hopes for permanent expansion of
the pre-1967 borders, there will be no hope of peace at all.  If
they were willing to take this basic step, there would be a very good
chance for it.

[IsraelEnigma]

i will say this, i am zionist,and i want a jewish israel in the same way muslims want a muslim mecca,however i do think palestinians should get there own state in gaza and Judea And Samiria, i just want because however it may come, let us not forget cousins, that you are also under jordanian opression and that they are also "invaders" from afar, but then again they are seyeds so u probably have to obey them,i want peace, u can call me names and call me an invader all u want but at the end of the day if u put both of us in a lineup i think wed both be "suspecious" looking so yeahive said my peice, so salaam