How Wold You Write The Legacy Of The Bush Administration?

[newsman]

Also, Carter has no right to call Bush the worst president, considering he was by far.

I find it difficult, if not impossible, to think of any president that has so negatively impacted the world as Bush. To say that Carter was a worse president than Bush is grossly unfair. Even though I am an unapologetic liberal, I will agree that Carter was not an effective president. He was simply too gentle and introspective to be an effective leader. I don't, however, understand how you can say that he was worse than Bush. I invite you to cite one instance where his policy decisions have been as profoundly disasterous as those that Bush makes on a regular basis. Jimmy Carter is an intelligent (his university degree in in nuclear physics), well-spoken, thoughtful, and above all, moral man who attempted to steer the ship of state according to true christian principles. George W. Bush is a former alcoholic drug abuser with a history of mediocrity, blatant cronyism and willful ignorance.

[smoker6146]

Very nice, describe Carter with all of his positive features and Bush with all of his negatives. It's late right now and I'm tired but I'll gather the information you requested.
I'm not a Bush supporter in the least bit, but it annoys me when people think so badly of him.
Terror must be opposed with equal terror and it's unfortunate the majority of the American people and the government can not see that.
We should not have taken down Iraq just far enough to build it back up, we should have obliterated it from the map along with any other middle eastern country who's government openly supports terrorism, including Israel.
We put too much emphasis on the civilians of enemy countries than of our own.

[Blue Midnight]

We should not have taken down Iraq just far enough to build it back up, we should have obliterated it from the map along with any other middle eastern country who's government openly supports terrorism, including Israel.
We put too much emphasis on the civilians of enemy countries than of our own.

Well, I simply don't know whether to feel angry at your comment or just feel sorry for you. You sir, are what is wrong with this world. Views like yours will surely lead to our demise as a species, should we continue to allow people who share your views to acquire power and resources in this world. Your comment represents exhibit A of everything that has gone so very,very wrong over these last five years in this world.

P.S. Newsflash: Osama bin Laden attacked our country, not Saddam Hussein....deal with it.

[newsman]

Very nice, describe Carter with all of his positive features and Bush with all of his negatives. It's late right now and I'm tired but I'll gather the information you requested.
I'm not a Bush supporter in the least bit, but it annoys me when people think so badly of him.
Terror must be opposed with equal terror and it's unfortunate the majority of the American people and the government can not see that.
We should not have taken down Iraq just far enough to build it back up, we should have obliterated it from the map along with any other middle eastern country who's government openly supports terrorism, including Israel.
We put too much emphasis on the civilians of enemy countries than of our own.

To a certain extent you are right, I did describe Carter in positive terms and Bush in negative ones. However, I find it very difficult to find anything really praiseworthy that Bush has done. Let's take a look at Carter and Bush's personal lives in a more side-by-side comparison.

Carter came from somewhat humble origins; his parents were peanut farmers. In school, he excelled academically and in school sports. He attained his Bachelor of Science degree from the US Naval Academy. George W. Bush came from a family of wealth and privilege. He was, by his own admission, an average student, in both the prestigous high school he attended, and Yale University. His admission to Yale was, more than likely influenced by his father's alumni status.

After University, Carter served on submarines in the Atlantic and Pacific, became a command officer in the the Navy's emerging nuclear submarine program. His career continued to progress until his father died, after which he resigned his commission to run the family peanut business. He served, and continues to serve, as a Sunday bible school teacher.

After college, and during the Viet Nam war, Bush entered the Texas Air National Guard in spite of a national waiting list of roughly 100,000 waiting to get in (one of the perks of privilege?). He was granted an early out of his service obligation (another perk?) to attend Harvard's MBA program. He also began his self-proclaimed period of "irresponsible youth" around this time. He has admitted to drinking too much and in 1976 he was arrested for drunk driving and had his license suspended for two years.

Both Carter and Bush have said that christianity and the teachings of Jesus Christ have guided them, but during Bush's tenure as governor of Texas, an unprecidented 152 prisoners were executed. This, in a state with an already notorious reputation for enforcing the death penalty. Doesn't sound very Christ-like to me. In fairness, Carter did sign legislation that authorized the death penalty for murder and rape while he was governor. I'll look up the statistics when I get a chance.

While governor, Carter worked for human and civil rights, as well as increased educational opportunity for the underprivileged. Bush, as governor of Texas, also worked to expand education by increasing funding for schools. But it was during this time that he
firmly established himself as a pro-business fiscal conservative by taking advantage of a huge budget surplus, pushing through Texas' largest tax cut plan ever.

More to come. I have to go to work...

[PerznPerversion]

Very nice, describe Carter with all of his positive features and Bush with all of his negatives. It's late right now and I'm tired but I'll gather the information you requested.
I'm not a Bush supporter in the least bit, but it annoys me when people think so badly of him.
Terror must be opposed with equal terror and it's unfortunate the majority of the American people and the government can not see that.
We should not have taken down Iraq just far enough to build it back up, we should have obliterated it from the map along with any other middle eastern country who's government openly supports terrorism, including Israel.
We put too much emphasis on the civilians of enemy countries than of our own.

Wow im really FUCKING angry at this ignorant post. TERROR MUST BE OPPoSED WITH TERROR?? Have you learned nothing from ghandi?

You make no sense. Why destroy a WHOLE country??? I hate people who freaking say that shit. How much do i have to say this. ONE DEATH IS ONE DEATH TO MANY! Do you even know why 9/11 happened? it was because of our biased interests in the middle east. We supported tyranical governments down there so we can exploit their resources and their people. I hate to say this buddy but we are an empire and empires thrive on stealing other peoples resources. im not sure of the numbers from 9/11. Lets say it was 5 thousand cuz im 2 lazy look. If we look at the deaths in iraq i believe it was close to 600 THOUSAND people dead. They are your brothers and sisters out there and we are killing them. I dont care if you religious or not, they are part of the human race and im not going to stand here and do nothing when i see stupid posts like this. Man use some logic instead of your fists, then maybe you will get enlightened

[smoker6146]

Your post disgusts me. It almost sounds as if you agree with 9/11.
If a country supports terrorism against the United States or our allies then their country should be crushed.
Other countries may think twice afterwards of supporting terrorist activities.
The lives of one American citizen is worth a million of any in some backwards country in the middle east.
And you question if I have learned anything from Gandhi, well why should I have? What makes his beliefs right and mine wrong? The fact you share his perhaps?
Our country his hardly an empire, yet at least. Edited June 1, 2007 by smoker6146

[PerznPerversion]

Your post disgusts me. It almost sounds as if you agree with 9/11.
If a country supports terrorism against the United States or our allies then their country should be crushed.
Other countries may think twice afterwards of supporting terrorist activities.
The lives of one American citizen is worth a million of any in some backwards country in the middle east.
And you question if I have learned anything from Gandhi, well why should I have? What makes his beliefs right and mine wrong? The fact you share his perhaps?
Our country his hardly an empire, yet at least.

I never agree with death, and neither should you. So no i dont agree with 9/11 or any violent act against another human being. A life of a healthy american is equal to a life of any other healthy human being on earth. How conceited are you? why is an american life better than any? IF U NOTICED AMERICA IS A MIXTURE OF THE WORLD!! Your terrorist can be a freedom fighter for another person. It seems like you have been brainwashed by americas violent society and news coverage. Im against occupation as any normal human being would be if someone took over their country.

If you want to play the why are my beliefs better than yours card, then why is this society better than the middle easts?? Gandhi was a wonderful man for the most part, he showed that non violence can get things done. And ur completly wrong about America not being an empire any educated person would tell you otherwise.

Your nationalism is retarded and has no base to it. If your going to say WERE THE COUNRY OF THE FREE!! Look at europe, theyre just as free if not more. The patriot act took away our privacy, whats next?? you guessed it.. our freedom

[smoker6146]

I know America is a mixture of the world. It's quite unfortunate too. America was founded by white Europeans and that's who should occupy our soil.
I certainly agree with you, America has a lot of problems that need to be fixed. I just think we have different views on what direction we need to head to fix things.

[newsman]

Your post disgusts me. It almost sounds as if you agree with 9/11.
If a country supports terrorism against the United States or our allies then their country should be crushed.
Other countries may think twice afterwards of supporting terrorist activities.
The lives of one American citizen is worth a million of any in some backwards country in the middle east.
And you question if I have learned anything from Gandhi, well why should I have? What makes his beliefs right and mine wrong? The fact you share his perhaps?
Our country his hardly an empire, yet at least.

I have to admit your last couple of posts are really troubling. Maybe your comment about responding to terror with terror, and your implication that the lives of millions of middle easterners are essentially worthless, is laced with hyperbole, but still... what makes the life of any one individual worth more than any other? And when you ask whay you should have learned any thing from gandhi, are you also saying that Gandhi had nothing of value to teach you, much less the world? You speak of backwards countries in the middle east, but are you even aware of the contributions that the Arab civilization has made to the world? Didi you ever learn something in school called algebra? The word algebra itself is derived from the arabic, al-jabr.

I mean no disrespect, but your response and seemingly jingoistic attitude toward the world smacks of real immaturity. You, of course, are entitled to your opinions and you live in a country where you enjoy the freedom to express them. But, please, at least do your homework so that you can engage in an informed, meaningful dialectic and not just resort to generalized outpourings of hate.

[newsman]

America was founded by white Europeans and that's who should occupy our soil.

I guess the native american population is SOL. I know it probably sounds like I'm attacking you, but I'm really not. But tell me, where are you getting your information from? We (white europeans) founded this country on the backs and blood of the indiginous people. We even imported slaves from africa when it suited economically to do so. Are you telling me that african americans have no place in America either? Please, please, please, please, please think a little before you speak (or, in this case, before you post. Maybe I am attacking you a little...

Added:
Anyway, I think we've unfortunately gotten way off topic here... Edited June 1, 2007 by newsman

[PerznPerversion]

I know America is a mixture of the world. It's quite unfortunate too. America was founded by white Europeans and that's who should occupy our soil.
I certainly agree with you, America has a lot of problems that need to be fixed. I just think we have different views on what direction we need to head to fix things.

You just proved my whole point. Wow dude, to say that america should be occupied by white europeans. That just dumbfounded me. yay for racism!! I dont care where in the world you are, It is all of our land. You cant just call this peice of land for white europeans and i dont even think our founding fathers would have thought that either. but on a lighter note ya we both agree america has problems

[smoker6146]

I don't see myself as a racist. Just an advocate for the rights of the white race, something which are being loss.

[PerznPerversion]

I don't see myself as a racist. Just an advocate for the rights of the white race, something which are being loss.

Im half white and i see everyone bringing out the race card. Who cares about race, its bullcrap fed into your head. Your still my brother whether your black, purple, blue, yellow or brown. Be an advocate for the human race as a whole

[newsman]

I don't see myself as a racist. Just an advocate for the rights of the white race, something which are being loss.

Just out of curiosity, which rights do you think are being taken away from whites and being granted to any other group? You know, it's statements like this one that make me think of certain supremicist groups that also fear their "white rights" are disappearing. How can you say you are not a racist? You have called middle easterners backwards. You have implied that an almost unversally admired man from India has nothing to teach us. You have referred to America as belonging to the white, ignoring the native american population and the tremendous contributions that african americans have made. A race of people, stolen from their homelands and forced into servitude by white "masters," fought in all of America's wars to defend the freedoms that they themselves suffered for so long to acheive. Yet you say that "America was founded by white Europeans and that's who should occupy our soil." Think, man, think...

Let me ask you this: why do you even smoke the hookah? After all, it's the smoke of choice for all those "backwards middle-eastern" terrorists, right? Maybe you do it just to look cool. But let me tell you, your thinly veiled messages of hate make you look anything but cool. All the Starbuzz, Fumari, Al Fakher, Al Waha and Smiley's Sexy in the world won't change that. It's time to grow up, open your eyes and take a real look at the world you live in. Sure, there are plenty of problems in America, as well as the world. But to pose violent non-solutions fostered by fear, loathing and ignorance is no way to solve them. And looking at the world through those same filters is no way to live.

Maybe you're just yanking our chains here and trying to stir things up a bit, butif not, the I feel sorry for you and I truly hope that those who believe what you claim to are slowly fading from the face of the earth.

[smoker6146]

Well that's a foolish way of looking at things. If I only used products that were invented in America I'd certainly be losing out.
As for the Native Americans, we took this land from them by force, we beat them, and formed The United States of America.
I do not discard all of Gandhi's teachings. We could certainly lean a lot from him.
You may be interested to learn that Gandhi was a racist. There's a good amount of documentation for that as well video clips of him talking down and complaining about African Americans.

[newsman]

I don't see myself as a racist. Just an advocate for the rights of the white race, something which are being loss.

Im half white and i see everyone bringing out the race card. Who cares about race, its bullcrap fed into your head. Your still my brother whether your black, purple, blue, yellow or brown. Be an advocate for the human race as a whole

Perzn,

I hope you weren't referring to my posts when you said that everyone is playing the race card. If so, I apologize. I'm merely trying to point out that Smoker has no basis on which to base his arguments.

[PerznPerversion]

I don't see myself as a racist. Just an advocate for the rights of the white race, something which are being loss.

Im half white and i see everyone bringing out the race card. Who cares about race, its bullcrap fed into your head. Your still my brother whether your black, purple, blue, yellow or brown. Be an advocate for the human race as a whole

Perzn,

I hope you weren't referring to my posts when you said that everyone is playing the race card. If so, I apologize. I'm merely trying to point out that Smoker has no basis on which to base his arguments.

I didnt mean you directly, i meant everyone as in everyone in a whole. Not in the forum but the world. do ya get what i mean??

I will say this, everyone is prejudice against something or another. Its human nature, it takes a big man to block out those thoughts and to think everyone as equal. Also i would like to see some of those clips that you're talkin about. I have never heard of gandhi being a racist and it might be true, but please can you shed some light with some sources on this topic.

[newsman]

If I only used products that were invented in America I'd certainly be losing out.

So it's okay to like the products, just not the people?

As for the Native Americans, we took this land from them by force, we beat them, and formed The United States of America.

Not sure here, but are you implying that that was OK? And that it's OK to refer to America as a white european country? And what about the blood, seat and tears shed by African Americans to help build this country? What about the immigrants from India, China, and South and Central America that have contributed to what we are today? Again I ask, how can you refer to America as a white european country?

I do not discard all of Gandhi's teachings. We could certainly lean a lot from him.
You may be interested to learn that Gandhi was a racist. There's a good amount of documentation for that as well video clips of him talking down and complaining about African Americans.

Tell me, what teachings of Gandhi have you embraced. If he was indeed a racist, I think we know the answer to that last question. But as for his racsim, you have to remember to judge the man in the context of the time and place in which he lived. No man is perfect and you have to judge each individual on the whole of his life.

[smoker6146]

I just want to say, that I am not a hateful person.
I would love a world full of peace and harmony.
I just don't see that happening without first a major war to rid us of our enemies.
We also need a government that actually tries to make this country a better place by doing things that actually make a difference. I get so annoyed when I see police doing sting operations for underaged drinking in clubs and bars (most of the people arrested are 18-20, could drink in any other country in the world), teenagers (or anyone) smoking pot, prostitution, etc.
Police resources should not be wasted on victimless crimes such as this! They should focus purely on violent crimes.
The entire government needs to be revamped, and the bullshit bureaucracy that people have to go through for different things needs to be eliminated. Our country needs to become more effective.
Don't even get me started on our absolutely terrible education system.

[newsman]

I just want to say, that I am not a hateful person.
I would love a world full of peace and harmony.
I just don't see that happening without first a major war to rid us of our enemies.

I apologise if you've felt under attack by anything I've said. I, and I'm sure many others, feel that violence only begets more violence. What we need to do is try to determine why our enemies are our enemies and to try to bridge the gap between differing philosophies. Blindly striking out in anger will will never accomplish this. Benjamin Franklin once said that good fences make good neighbors. While this may be true, I believe that understanding makes even better neighbors. If we believe that the US is the moral leader of the world, we have to take the high road and take responsibilty for our own actions. It is possible, after all, that some of our foreign policy decisions, while being of benefit to us, have had a negative, if not devastating, effect on those who have had those very decisions thrust upon them.

[hookahlife]

Hey all,

(Sorry, but I have to say this: The following discussion is of my own opinion and does not represent the opinions of Hookah Life, its employees, partners, affiliates or otherwise associated parties.)

As far as my opinion on GW, let’s just say I am not a fan and for the rest of my thoughts I will bite my tongue.

A few notes however, these are replies to everyone’s posts in general:
1. The economic policy GW enacted did somewhat selfishly and largely benefit the wealthy. However, his policy was rooted in economic theory and a concept many refer to as Reagan Economics. You can all read up on the details on sites like Wikipedia, but basically it assumes that when the rich save more money they tie it up in risk-free securities such as government bonds and bank savings accounts. This in turn provides more money for lending which decreases interest rates, and essentially expedites economic growth over the long term for small business there by circling around to the less privileged. This is not 100% effective, but has proven to work in certain economic situations.

2. It is not likely that GW is the mastermind of all the actions his administration has partaken in since the first election. The presidency is much more than one person, it is a mentality. A small city of people support, suggest and even enact certain policies and agenda's that the President spearheads. The president is merely the face of a much larger and more complicated machine. The only thing anyone can fairly blame GW for is ignorance and not being able to distinguish personal agenda from good public policy.

3. The last good presidency we had was the Clinton administration. He was honestly the most well practiced and naturally talented negotiator since FDR or JFK. He was able to accomplish things during his 2 terms that multiple presidents may never accomplish. The funny thing is he was congressionally impeached for lying under oath for a silly act of adultery (only silly in comparison to some of the acts other leaders have committed); while GW, who did not officially lie under oath but blatantly mislead the American public remains in office without serious challenge from congress. And even funnier still, (sorry for the tangent statement) the Republican congress spent something like 7 months prosecuting multiple MLB players on steroid use, as if there was nothing of greater importance happening at the time.

Thanks for reading my opinion,
Mike
Hookah Life

[newsman]

After some careful research, I have finally come up with what I can call the high point of the Bush administration's tenure. On March 2, 2007, Bush lifted the 17 year ban on the importation of Indian mangoes. Seriously, and all sarcasm aside, these mangoes rock, you'll never have better, especially the Alfonso variety. It's just too bad that this was the best he could do...

[Scalliwag]

For someone to seriously think that we could just nuke countries back to the stoneage when we disagree with them has got to be one of the most ignorant thoughts I have ever heard.
One thing that Bush has shown is that we are not nearly as efficient or effective as we would like to think. We start firing nukes off at ANY country and immediately attacks will start coming our way from Russia and China.

It only takes one look at a map to see that nuking Afghanistan was never an option. Nuclear fallout in both Russia and China. That is the equivalent of one of them nuking anything in South America.
Bush has failed in diplomacy and his selective use of intelligence.
Everybody thinks that GW was the wild west cowboy that thought we ruled the world but it is really Dick(head) Cheney and Don Rumsfield that took advantage of his complete incompetence.
We have had so many Nat Guardsman on multiple tours of duty and a depleted military system that we look incredibly weak to the rest of the world now.

I love my country and our freedom and even with all of our shortcomings it is a great country. Both democratic and republican administrations have allowed the CIA to get into too many other countries business for too long and to me it is a direct result of the problems we face now. It is hard to get the toothepaste back in the tube and that is why we need smarter people with smaller egos making shortterm decisions with such longterm effects.

And as I remember the repubs were blaming Carter for high gas prices when he was in office... funny it turned out the be a scam back then yet they seem to give all kinds of reasons it is not now.

[OrangeLazarus]

After some careful research, I have finally come up with what I can call the high point of the Bush administration's tenure. On March 2, 2007, Bush lifted the 17 year ban on the importation of Indian mangoes. Seriously, and all sarcasm aside, these mangoes rock, you'll never have better, especially the Alfonso variety. It's just too bad that this was the best he could do...

ROFL

classic...

[smoker6146]

I never said anything about nuking any country.

We have other types of bombs and missiles.
Not to mention a large mandatory draft would not only help greatly in the ground invasions but will also help whip into shape future generations.