Tell His Aussie Arse Obama

[Gex]

Scalliwag, you say you're moderate, but you seem more anti-Republican, no matter what it means. I think Capitol Hill (and a couple other places around the world) proved long ago that those who refuse to negotiate with their counterparts only cause things to get worse.

[sicklecow]

I think most true moderates these days are anti-Republican; not against the party or its ideals, but the actions that have been perpetuated in recent years.

[Scalliwag]

You are 100% correct on that Gex. I fully agree. A lot of my friends are republicans but there are exactly zero republican politicians I care for. Some less than others. I have given many points and examples with links as to why the party as whole is corrupt.
They all stayed on the GW bandwagon until his popularity tanked. The party as a whole is responsible for the state of the union. GW did what he did with full backing of his party.

But yes I am an anti-republican moderate. I may not be crazy about liberals but they usually do bad things with good intentions. Neocons do evil things for evil reasons.
Gerge Tenet tried to get shit taken out of the state of the union leading to war because it was bullshit and republicans politics put it back in for fear factor. Yes I pretty much hate people that think like that and people without the balls to stand up and do something about it when it may not be easy on them.

[[LB]]

lol the libertarians, aka funders of 'Guns for tots'

[evlspcmk]

In all honesty why do you yanks care if our bushy eyebrowed mr Sheen look alike PM says anything, i personally think all your politicians are stupid except for hillary clinton, i think shes HOT! i however think johnny howard should be looking at Australia more than going on about Iraq, look at Lekemba sir its like australias "little baghdad" you have guys walking every where in their white night gowns and women dressed up as ninjas and with the fanatical Sheik Ukulele i cant help but fear some shits going down here soon. So im criticizing my PM for not doing much about a local problem and instead going on about something a few continents away

[Scalliwag]

Hillary and hot? In the states those words are rarely if ever used in the same sentence. But I did love parliment response to Howard I found on Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e7bhsziwJ4
Something tells me that Howard and his party are going to take a beating in your upcoming elections.

[McDarragh]

The thing is it doesnt matter who gets into office here there still gonna kiss Americas ass. Thats politics ahhaa

[benny]

Let me firstly start off with this.

McDarragh, i don't know what history book you have been reading out of, but i dont know too many wars that our troops have suceeded in?

True we generally had it really tough, and dealt with it, in true anzac style, however, that said, we're not overly deadly.

We got our Asses whooped at Galipoli. Yes we were deployed on the wrong beach, but that said we didnt win.

We were gettin whooped along the Kakoda Trail

We got whooped as wit the americans in Vietnam

And so far the only casualty from iraq i remember, our soldier managed to shoot himself?

Far from deadly.... Not that I'm suggesting the US military is overly well skilled either.

Anyhoo, the US population is around about 298,400,000 whereas our population is only about 20,000,000 (goin by the CIA world factbook)

That means for every 1 aussie citizen in the word, theres approximately 15 yankees. Thats somethin worthwhile factoring in.

Further more, we're waaaaaaaaaay further away from the conflict, and have our own issues in the South pacific, where we need our military on hand (be it the current situation in Fiji, or Timor, etc).

That said, Our PM can be a douchebag, but i think personally just running away from a problem that the US basically created, would be a pretty stupid idea, as voiced by our PM. And for the record, from what im seein, his little comment hasnt cost him anything, and in the upcoming elections, i dont honestly see him getting voted out of office. Edited February 15, 2007 by benny

[rootdown]

whats up fellas, rootdown your local forum hawaiian here

ive met obama 3 times in my life and he remembered my name from the first time he met me

he likes to tell jokes and is very down to earth.

trust me, we need to make this guy president, he is an amazing person

[Scalliwag]

I agree with most of your post Benny except that I think to use the term "running away" does not exactly fairly describe the situation. MOST Iraqis want us out. All reports show that we have created more terrorists by our presence.
Like with any botched surgery there is not an option to go back to square one like nothing happened. Like I said in another thread I am open to hear ideas on a way to fix things there. Don't run away does not sound like a strategy Benny.
Instead of inflicting more damage maybe it is time to let the patient heal?

Rootdown, hopefully Obama turns out to be the real deal. I honestly think it is logical to criticize the intelligence of anyone that voted for GW that could criticize Obama at this point. Bush never showed himself in any other light than a simpleminded butcher of the English vocabulary. At what specific point did he show any sort of above average inteligence is my favorite question?
Anyone that spent any time actually looking into GW would know that he liked condensed versions of situations. Just like any mentally lazy person would.
The president needs to be an overachiever and I do not ever recall any moment GW ever fit that category.

GW is to put it simply a reactionary kneejerk (with special emphasis on the jerk ) that does not have enough depth to grasp possible longterm results to his shortsighted decisions and he views anyone that is not as simple minded as him as the enemy and that is why he reacts badly and gives illogical explanations when someone tries to interject some sense into one of his bad ideas.

[Krautle87]

Yeah, way to go Barrack, insult and piss off one of the few allies we still do have. He's quick to criticize the Australians, but I'm sure he'd have no problem going down on the French or the Palestinians.

Besides, except for opposing the Iraq War (join the club,) WTF does Obama believe in? Has he taken a stand on, or even discussed, ANY other issue?

[Scalliwag]

Well Krautle let's dissect what you said here. You said he insulted and pissed off one of the few allies we still have. He pissed off one of the few allies GW has. Bush did cost us a lot of respect from most of the world and it is a much more dangerous world because of his actions.
He did not piss off an allie of the United States as a country is concerned. He pissed off a man that is about as popular as Bush in his own country.
The Australian parliment sure as hell was not pissed at Obama, they wanted to sensor their own PM.

Obama has written a book that covers much more of what he believes in. The last part of your remark is the oldest trick in the book. Just because the media does not report his entire speeches does not mean he has not covered much more than Iraq.
Some people want to dislike the guy. My guess is any that were ever lame enough to vote for someone like GW..... but that is just a guess

[benny]

he pissed off a man that is about as popular as Bush in his own country.
The Australian parliment sure as hell was not pissed at Obama, they wanted to sensor their own PM.

Unless you truly understand the dynamics of Australian politics, how can u substantiate that?

The Anti-Howard lobby cried louder then ever last election, yet Howard won a greater majority of seats, then he had previously had, and Labor slipped further away from ever taking office.

I live down here, didnt ever hear anyone trying to sensor our PM, except the whinging moaning Labor, who nobody honestly takes seriously anyways. The general rhetoric down here was "if obama can say as he wishes about a global political issue, Howard equally has every right to comment on it too"

The australian press was more ridiculing the american media's portrayal of "you aussies keep your nose out of our politics" . I didnt hear much rhetoric about silencing howard. Edited February 17, 2007 by benny

[Lakemonster]

We got our Asses whooped at Galipoli. Yes we were deployed on the wrong beach, but that said we didnt win.

We were gettin whooped along the Kakoda Trail

We got whooped as wit the americans in Vietnam

And so far the only casualty from iraq i remember, our soldier managed to shoot himself?

I dont care what they say......... the Aussies got knackers.... and thats what counts. Edited February 17, 2007 by Lakemonster

[benny]

We got our Asses whooped at Galipoli. Yes we were deployed on the wrong beach, but that said we didnt win.

We were gettin whooped along the Kakoda Trail

We got whooped as wit the americans in Vietnam

And so far the only casualty from iraq i remember, our soldier managed to shoot himself?

I dont care what they say......... the Aussies got knackers.... and thats what counts.

I didnt say we dont have knackers... Just we arent a hugely reveered, or feared army. i would say....

[Scalliwag]

he pissed off a man that is about as popular as Bush in his own country.
The Australian parliment sure as hell was not pissed at Obama, they wanted to sensor their own PM.

Unless you truly understand the dynamics of Australian politics, how can u substantiate that?

The Anti-Howard lobby cried louder then ever last election, yet Howard won a greater majority of seats, then he had previously had, and Labor slipped further away from ever taking office.

I live down here, didnt ever hear anyone trying to sensor our PM, except the whinging moaning Labor, who nobody honestly takes seriously anyways. The general rhetoric down here was "if obama can say as he wishes about a global political issue, Howard equally has every right to comment on it too"

The australian press was more ridiculing the american media's portrayal of "you aussies keep your nose out of our politics" . I didnt hear much rhetoric about silencing howard.

You are right I am not from there but I did do some reading in Aus news before I made my remarks and from everything I read th Labor party has gained in popularity quite a bit. You sound like you are dismissing all of that and reffering to that the last election results. Well here in the U.S. we can sure tell you what a difference the next election can make and you guys show all the signs. Labor leads in popularity 58 to 42 against the coalition. In terms of polls that is huge.
Your minority today is not going to be there next election.
So you obviously are not giving the "whining moaning" Labor "who nobody honestly takes seriously" as serious.
In your primaries Labor had a higher than usual voter turnout while the coalition fell. 46% to 36% turnout.
So while you indeed live there and you are not hearing rhetoric the news articles from there are not supporting very much of your argument especially the way you downplayed the Labor party. We have a lot of republicans here that wanted to pretend they did not see the writing on the wall last election too though. They woke up to their worst nightmare one November morn though

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,21210...from=public_rss

Howard, Rudd play down poll results By Robin Pash in Canberra
February 12, 2007 11:48am


PRIME Minister John Howard has brushed off a strong poll result for Labor leader Kevin Rudd, saying he has never kidded himself about the difficulty of winning a fifth term.

Mr Rudd has also played down the poll which suggests he is ahead of Mr Howard in the preferred prime minister stakes and is now the most popular Opposition leader of the past 35 years.

The first ACNielsen poll since Mr Rudd became Labor leader on December 4 last year puts his approval rating at 65 per cent, the best for an Opposition leader in the history of the poll and higher than Bob Hawke's rating in March 1983.

Mr Rudd is leading Mr Howard as preferred prime minister by 48 per cent to 43 per cent, according to the poll published in Fairfax newspapers today.

Mr Howard's approval rating remains steady at 49 per cent.

Labor leads the coalition government on a two-party preferred basis by 58 to 42 per cent.

Mr Howard said nine weeks was not an unusually long honeymoon for a new Opposition leader, but said he was under no illusions about how tough this year's election would be.

"I have never kidded myself about how hard it will be to win the next election,'' he told ABC radio.

"We have things going for us and we have things going against us and ultimately it's a matter for the public to work things out.''

Mr Howard would not comment on why Mr Rudd was doing so well, saying voters would ultimately focus on Australia's prosperity.

Mr Rudd said he took no comfort from the results.

"If you look at the pattern of the last decade often there is a resurgence in Labor polling in the six or nine months heading into the election and then what Mr Howard does is engage in the spending spree of the century.''

Labor's primary vote has risen five points to 46 per cent since Mr Rudd rolled Kim Beazley, its highest since April 2001, while the coalition's primary vote has fallen three points to 36 per cent, its lowest since May 2001.

The poll of 1412 voters was taken from last Thursday to Saturday, at the end of the first parliamentary sitting week for the year.

[PersianPride]

Hahaha yeah Howard is a grade A douche alright.

Whats funny is that he keeps referring to our presence in Iraq as if it anything more significant then a token contribution. I mean we have I think 850 or so troops in Iraq and even most mercenary groups (opps sorry security contractors ) have more armed men in Iraq. There was never any reason for Australia to follow the US into Iraq however it was always hinted by Howard that if we don't support the US in their expeditions that Australia would not get the political and economic benefits of being a friend of the US (i.e. a free trade agreement.) Well we eventually got the free trade agreement by then again so did Peru and I don't remember them sending any troops to Iraq.

As for questions of Howard's popularity one first needs a brief introduction to Australian politics. Like the US the political scene here is also that of a 2 party system however even the party that’s not in power has a permanent leader. What’s more the differences between the two parties is very minor and your average Australian voter doesn't really care about 'issues' but rather just looks for a stable party that knows what the fuck their doing.
Bearing this in mind the opposition to Howard's liberal party, the Labor party are completely dysfunctional and have already cannibalized 3 of their leaders in 3 years whereas Howard has been the sole head of the liberal party for something like 15 years. So although he is not particularly popular him and his party do convey an image of competence and stability and as far as the Australian public is concern its 'better the devil you know than the devil you don't.' Edited February 18, 2007 by PersianPride

[benny]

but what you dont realise,
is that those BULLSHIT polls, never reflect anything.

Going into last election labour was favourite, liberals popularity was way down on polls.


So again, you need to understand the dynamics of australian politics...

Everyone is open about how shit howard is, but when push comes to shove we dont seem to wanna get rid of him

[Scalliwag]

Well, that is a little harder for me to conceive but don't be surprised. Repubs here thought that they owned the Whitehouse until 1992 when Clinton won.
But shit had finally got so bad that the voters threw GW's Dad out on his ass. Maybe it works differently there but here once we get sick enough of these guys we eventually clean house literally.

[Scalliwag]

we will know soon if Howard the coward bites the dust

[Scalliwag]

but what you dont realise,
is that those BULLSHIT polls, never reflect anything.

Going into last election labour was favourite, liberals popularity was way down on polls.


So again, you need to understand the dynamics of australian politics...

Everyone is open about how shit howard is, but when push comes to shove we dont seem to wanna get rid of him

So much for the polls being bullshit. Rudd 53% and Howard 46% is an old fashion ass-whoopin by Texas dynamics Good for the aussies to realize any friend of Bush is an enemy of theirs. Hopefully Rudd wastes no time to tell Bush off.
Since repubs here had no probs with Howard talking shit about Bush's opposition party we will see if yhey extend the same coourtesy to Rudd

[ZenSilk]

I don't know how much boomerangs and crocodile wrestling will help against terrorists... but ok!

[brettwatson]

And I do feel O'Bama has been disrespectful at times, including with the Australian President.

The Aussie PM was critical to both Obama personally as well as his political party. He interjected himself in our national politics. He opened himself up to criticism by running his mouth and deserved a response.

Dude, Australia is barely 1000 troops away from not even being involved. To make a speech as though you are standing shoulder to shoulder with "US" and we have brought back over 3000 dead bodies and all you have is 1000 troops altogether? I know you struggle to see my point and well maybe math might be your trouble?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/...1,5372013.story

Hey boys and girls i'm a new member, just wanted to throw in some alternate opinions and see what you think.. even though this is an old issue..

About the PM's attack on Obama, Modern politics is very much about commenting on an opponents, party, policies and even personal issues. etc.. so I feel he wasn't doing anything unusual. But like you said that opens him up for attack so let the daggers fly. (he has been voted out now by the way)

But about troop numbers.... hmm a little bit of a problem I have with that... 260 - 300 million americans compared 19 - 21 million aussies... in terms of population I think its irresponsible to use numbers to diminish our contribution.... keep in mind that the US began this invasion based on poor intelligence, a false premise and without the backing of the United Nations... I think you should be grateful when anyone wants stand shoulder to shoulder with the american forces...

So i think your offensive on john howard was unnecessary when he was just doing what politicians do, and your use of numbers to claim your allies are un comitted etc.. is misleading at best. If you don't want their help.. call them.. I bet that's 800 people who will be on the first plane home.

thats my 2 cents, hope u liked it

[Scalliwag]

And I do feel O'Bama has been disrespectful at times, including with the Australian President.

The Aussie PM was critical to both Obama personally as well as his political party. He interjected himself in our national politics. He opened himself up to criticism by running his mouth and deserved a response.

Dude, Australia is barely 1000 troops away from not even being involved. To make a speech as though you are standing shoulder to shoulder with "US" and we have brought back over 3000 dead bodies and all you have is 1000 troops altogether? I know you struggle to see my point and well maybe math might be your trouble?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/...1,5372013.story

Hey boys and girls i'm a new member, just wanted to throw in some alternate opinions and see what you think.. even though this is an old issue..

About the PM's attack on Obama, Modern politics is very much about commenting on an opponents, party, policies and even personal issues. etc.. so I feel he wasn't doing anything unusual. But like you said that opens him up for attack so let the daggers fly. (he has been voted out now by the way)

But about troop numbers.... hmm a little bit of a problem I have with that... 260 - 300 million americans compared 19 - 21 million aussies... in terms of population I think its irresponsible to use numbers to diminish our contribution.... keep in mind that the US began this invasion based on poor intelligence, a false premise and without the backing of the United Nations... I think you should be grateful when anyone wants stand shoulder to shoulder with the american forces...

So i think your offensive on john howard was unnecessary when he was just doing what politicians do, and your use of numbers to claim your allies are un comitted etc.. is misleading at best. If you don't want their help.. call them.. I bet that's 800 people who will be on the first plane home.

thats my 2 cents, hope u liked it

oh, I'm game, take them home. It was damn stupid to follow Bush and Howard paid the price. We should not even have our troops there. Bush is a fool. People that voted for him are fools. I have no respect for idiots and I don't expect people to blindly follow out of ignorant loyalty.
The Australian election went as I predicted just like I predicted our elections would go here. I have always literally hated Bush and never indicated to anybody anytime that I felt different. He is the kind of man that I expect to make the wrong decision more often than not.
And just "doing what politicians do" is a lame excuse. A fool is a fool and Howard is a fool.

[TheScotsman]

The Democrat goal is to get out of Iraq. The Republican goal is to win in Iraq."

I agree, the dems have no idea of victory, but what would constitute a "win"? We hear all the republicasaurus talk about winning, yet no one has said just what goal we are trying to achieve. After all, Baghdad will never be Seattle, if our goal is to turn it into a poster child for democracy, we have already lost. In all reality a military victory is unattainable in Iraq, I believe they realize such, and the lack of a realistic goal is their work-around for the reality of the situation. I can easily see how other national leaders have had enough of the snake oil politics, and want out. It's getting to be a bit like a daunder with that battery-bunny on TV, it just keeps going, and getting nowhere.

Just to top it all off, I believe it has become a case of when, not if the USA or Israel starts dropping iron on Iran.