Tell His Aussie Arse Obama

[Scalliwag]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/11/oba...ment/index.html

So the Prime Minister of Australia talks a lot of talk about his support for GW and the Iraq mess (this is hardly a war) and decides to mouth off about how Al Qaeda should want Obama and the democrats to win in 08.
The problem with the remark is that there is barely over 1000 Aussie soldiers in Iraq right now. We have over 120 times that.
So Obama called the PM out on it and told him to put up or shut up basically. If he does feel so strongly about Iraq show it by sending in more Aussie troops. Problem for the PM is that he is about as popular as GW and he is up for re-election.
Most likely as with all of GW's other comrades he is all talk. The so-called "coalition of the willing" has always consisted of about 9 American soldiers to 1 from anywhere else. If Al Qaeda ever had a friend it was ball-less loudmouths like this PM that only sent a fraction of what we sent there.

I eagerly await the PM's response to Obama and him putting his soldiers where his mouth is. Odds are damn good his remarks did not help him at hom either.
At least we are not the only country with an idiot at the helm folks

[Scalliwag]

Here are the troop numbers of the coalition from March 2004. That was the latest I could find. Most non- US are in the safest areas opposed to US troops.

Iraq Troop numbers March 2004

1 USA 130,000
2 United Kingdom 9,000
3 Italy 3,000
4 Poland 2,460
5 Ukraine 1,600
6 Spain * 1,300
7 Netherlands 1,100
8 Australia 800
9 Romania 700
10 Bulgaria 480
11 Thailand 440
12 Denmark 420
13 Honduras 368
14 El Salvador 361
15 Dominican Republic 302
16 Hungary 300
17 Japan 240
18 Norway 179
19 Mongolia 160
20 Azerbaijan 150
21 Portugal 128
22 Latvia 120
23 Lithuania 118
24 Slovakia 102
25 Czech Republic
26 Philippines 80
27 Albania 70
28 Georgia 70
29 New Zealand 61
30 Moldova 50
31 Macedonia 37
32 Estonia 31
33 Canada ^ 31^
34 Kazakhstan 25

[sicklecow]

Wow. Even the Republicans haven't stooped that low.

[Scalliwag]

Wow. Even the Republicans haven't stooped that low.

Bush said the same thing basically barely before the last election.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6103000530.html

"However they put it, the Democrat approach in Iraq comes down to this: The terrorists win and America loses," Bush told a raucous crowd of about 5,000 GOP partisans packed in an arena at Georgia Southern University in Statesboro, one of his stops Monday. "That's what's at stake in this election. The Democrat goal is to get out of Iraq. The Republican goal is to win in Iraq."

[Gex]

"That's what's at stake in this election. The Democrat goal is to get out of Iraq. The Republican goal is to win in Iraq."

Well, yeah, that's the way it seems to most, the Democrats just want to get the Hell out, though it looks like some Republicans do too, now.

As a citizen of Illinois, I proudly say that O'Bama is not from our state, and apologize that he sort of is. He's from Chicago. Ask anyone outside of Chicago, the people in that city are different. And they managed to piss the rest of our state off with our current governor (I mean, wtf, he won't even live in the Governor's mansion because he has his own in Chicago).

So yeah, I'm not a big O'Bama fan, but I guess he could be a lot worse. Like Hillary. *Shudder* And I do feel O'Bama has been disrespectful at times, including with the Australian President. I'm not saying the Aussie Pres was entirely in the right, but hey, doesn't "poli" mean kind or something in French? Seriously though, having a relaxed image is fine, but there are standards to go by, even if they're constanty being skirted.

Oh well, I guess I understand you POV on this, now that I think about it. Last year a State Rep (Rich Brauer) made the front page of the State Journal Register for busting out laughing with his friends when the Gov and his team started talking about their "plan" to "balance the budget." His daughter's a friend of mine who was in my class at the time, she was outright embarrassed. I don't know why, the entire school was just congratulating her for having such an awesome dad.

Well, I guess I'll wish O'Bama luck in garnering enough support to be the Democrat's candidate. Not sure who I'm for with the Republican's yet. Actually, who's running for independent and green this year?

Despite any party/candidate bashing I may do, I'd just like to add that I'm glad that we have a Democracy and have a choice. Sometimes large crowds of ignorant people make me a bit unsure about how great of an idea that is, but you know, it's all about the long run.

[ghostofdavid]

Don't forget Libertarian.

[Gex]

What the hell is a Libertarian? People have suddenly started using that word a lot, and I don't even know what it means. Like, are they up (or down or strange or charm) as opposed to left or right?

[fewwdragon]

I didn't know that italy had that many troops in. In all right America started the probelm so the majority of troops should be American but god it would be nice if we had more real support instead of just talk.

[Drake BBNR]

"That's what's at stake in this election. The Democrat goal is to get out of Iraq. The Republican goal is to win in Iraq."

Well, yeah, that's the way it seems to most, the Democrats just want to get the Hell out, though it looks like some Republicans do too, now.

As a citizen of Illinois, I proudly say that O'Bama is not from our state, and apologize that he sort of is. He's from Chicago. Ask anyone outside of Chicago, the people in that city are different. And they managed to piss the rest of our state off with our current governor (I mean, wtf, he won't even live in the Governor's mansion because he has his own in Chicago).

I'm from the very most southern portion of Illinois and I support both our current Governor and O'Bama. Who cares where he lives? If it wasn't for Chicago our whole state would be republican.

[Gex]

I'm from the very most southern portion of Illinois and I support both our current Governor and O'Bama. Who cares where he lives? If it wasn't for Chicago our whole state would be republican.

Well, yeah, that's what I mean, the majority of Illinois is republican. But I do have a lot of Democrat friends; from what I've seen a lot of the younger generations are shaping out to be Democrats.

[ghostofdavid]

What the hell is a Libertarian? People have suddenly started using that word a lot, and I don't even know what it means. Like, are they up (or down or strange or charm) as opposed to left or right?

http://www.lp.org/

[Drake BBNR]

I'm from the very most southern portion of Illinois and I support both our current Governor and O'Bama. Who cares where he lives? If it wasn't for Chicago our whole state would be republican.

Well, yeah, that's what I mean, the majority of Illinois is republican. But I do have a lot of Democrat friends; from what I've seen a lot of the younger generations are shaping out to be Democrats.

Agreed, most of my friends are Democrats; I don't claim to be a Democrat. I listen to both sides and decide from there. I'm not commiting to O'Bama I was just saying I support him in his bid for the Presidency.

[Gex]

=) I see

[Scalliwag]

And I do feel O'Bama has been disrespectful at times, including with the Australian President. I'm not saying the Aussie Pres was entirely in the right, but hey, doesn't "poli" mean kind or something in French? Seriously though, having a relaxed image is fine, but there are standards to go by, even if they're constanty being skirted.

So let's dissect what we have here. The Aussie PM was critical to both Obama personally as well as his political party. He interjected himself in our national politics. He opened himself up to criticism by running his mouth and deserved a response.
I will go further and say the sorry bastard got the response he deserved and Obama should run with it.
Obama should get on the floor of the senate with the chart of countries and their troop numbers and question Blair and some of the other leaders that act as though thy are behind Bush.
Dude, Australia is barely 1000 troops away from not even being involved. To make a speech as though you are standing shoulder to shoulder with "US" and we have brought back over 3000 dead bodies and all you have is 1000 troops altogether? I know you struggle to see my point and well maybe math might be your trouble?
And you wanna use the word "disrespectful" when it comes to Obama and you "guess" you see my point? I am not seeing your point at all except that yes most Dems and most citizens are ready to get the hell out of Iraq.

You point out that Illinois is mostly republican and you seem to remark as though you are politically savvy. You want to go a little deeper into some of the great republican politicians you guys have recently had? You like to take jabs at Obama right?
How many republicans like ex-Gov Ryan are in a shitload of legal trouble right now? But you are upset about your "current" governor. Just from everything you left out you have republican written all over you bro. Just the fact you bring up such lame arguments against the democrats with the big ass elephant standing in the middle of the room that you don't seem to notice?
Ex Speaker Denny Hastert let a pervert run amuck in the US Congress but you have a problem with Obama? Your new Guv is a problem? What about Ryan?

We will obviously agree to disagree but for the sake of lurkers I figure I will drive the point a little deeper since you seem to struggle grasping my point
For those lurkers that do not know about your former governor that would sleep in the governor mansion. I guess he is in prison now since the conviction? http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/...1,5372013.story

[Scalliwag]

I didn't know that italy had that many troops in. In all right America started the probelm so the majority of troops should be American but god it would be nice if we had more real support instead of just talk.

Well, we didn't start the problem we just made a bigger problem by not preparing and executing properly. The reason other countries bear a responsibility is because of their votes in the UN resolution. They voted to authorize the removal of Sadaam and it caught them with their pants down when GW went postal.
In their defense I don't blame them for not risking more of their people since GW and Rummy were claiming we didn't need many troops to begin with. It became apparent early on when we were sending in so many troops for so long and pulling as deep as we could go into reserves that GW and Rummy fugged up just like Powell was trying to tell them.

So how many additional troops did all of the other countries send in so that our soldiers did not have to serve multiple tours of duty? Oh, and we are not even into the cost of this debacle. Just like America should have thought a little longer before giving GW their vote so should the other countries that voted for this in the UN. We are having to suffer for those that voted for GW so I do not think it is too much to ask that others pay for their mistake as well.

[Gex]

Well, I've never claimed to be politically savvy. Quite the opposite, I've just started seriously trying to follow politics in the past year, since having moved over to Europe and realizing just how much I preferred the US (in some respects, certainly not all). And yeah, you're right, Ryan wasn't a shining example either, expect for those with a burning passion to spend their years behind bars. =) I really didn't start paying attention until after Blagojevich was elected, but I wish I had earlier, and I wish the rest of mygeneration would've too. Maybe then we wouldn't have so many emos (joke!.. mostly.)

Sorry, I wasn't trying to start a conflict here, and in retrospect I see that I did post too much. And yes, I do generally side Republican, not because I was raised that way or because all my friends are that way (quite the contrary on that), but because I honestly disagree with several Democratic stances on current issues. Nonetheless, as I said, I'm really just starting to learn my way around, and I've seen disgusting actions on both sides, my views are subject to change (and they actually are changing, I don't just say that), and I wouldn't be surprised if I actually did vote Democrat in the next election, or more likely the one thereafter. Right now, though, I don't see that happening, not the way things are swinging, but I've never claimed I could see into future.

You make entirely valid points though, and I really do hope this Congress can do something about corruption like they've been promising. Honesty is extremely important to me, and if I ever believe a candidate is being entirely honest with us, they'll be getting my votes.

[SanguineSolitude]

did anyone notice that kazhakstan sent 25 soldiers. its like "no really guys we've got it, thanks anyways"

[Scalliwag]

What set me off was when you mentioned Brauer laughing out loud at the governor. If the governor would have been me I would have called him out on it and said that if him and his republican buddies had solved the problem I would not be standing here today. I would have driven home the point that him and his party failed the people of Illinois so it is a bit disingeuous to laugh at the people coming behind you to clean up your mess.
Then again I am fairly good at knowing my enemies and I may have had an even more direct and cutting response to him.
Just like you said you did not go into any detail of "why" you seemed to dislike these guys and you thought it was disrespectful for Obama to directly address the PM's remarks. Yet somehow a guy laughing during a speech is somehow brilliant to you. That I don't understand.
Laughing at ideas somehow does not answer any questions other than the person that laughs thinks it's humorous. On the other hand Obama gave a direct and detailed accessment to the reporter. He was glad that one of GW's supporters criticized him on the day he announced his presidential run, and since the PM tried to tie him into being a good thing for the insurgents he gave the PM an idea on what he (the PM) could do to fight against the insurgency and that was to send in 20,000 troops.

Like you said you are new to this and I understand this and hope you are open-minded. I am a moderate and there are lots of times I do not see eye to eye with many democrats on certain issues.
But I do not buy into the republican rhetoric to get votes, ie, they are for lower taxes. Because taxes are directly tied to money being spent. Their answer to spending money without raising taxes is raising the debt ceiling so they can borrow more money.
Over an 8 trillion dollar federal deficit, an astronomical amount of money being spent on the Iraq rebuilding and the repubs at one time were nearly 100% behind ALL of it. Even if the repubs were to be able to gut all social programs they despise so much it does not come close to what they like to spend money on. They are completely full of shit.
Find me a republican willing to slam GW in 2002/2003 and I will show you a good person.
Unfortunately for the American people far too many believed in Reagan's 11th Commandment "Speak no ill of a fellow republican". http://www.mcgop.net/Great_Leaders.htm
So if you want to know why the republicans have totally imploded it is because very few of them will speak out. Mark Foley benefitted greatly from the Reagan commandment.

While you are learning this stuff Gex be sure to learn and remember this quote. George Santayana said that "those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it." Read up about McCarthyism and then look at how the Dixie Chicks were blacklisted and all GW had to say about it was "freedom has it's price". No republicans came to their defense.
So it is no surprise if they would not defend a person to speak their mind even in light of death threats that these people in my opinion are as anti-American as a group could ever be.

[McDarragh]

Maybe you Americans need to realise the sun doesnt shine out of your arse and take a look at the numbers before mouthing off. Australia troop numbers are so low it's not funny, we basically dont have a military. Thats why there are so little troops there. Mind you going from past wars Australian troops are or at least were considered some of the most deadly troops worldwide so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

[sicklecow]

Find me a republican willing to slam GW in 2002/2003 and I will show you a good person.

How about Specter? I admired his willingness to speak out in recent years, until that "compromise" about Bush's ability to label virtually anyone as a terrorist.

[Scalliwag]

Maybe you Americans need to realise the sun doesnt shine out of your arse and take a look at the numbers before mouthing off. Australia troop numbers are so low it's not funny, we basically dont have a military. Thats why there are so little troops there. Mind you going from past wars Australian troops are or at least were considered some of the most deadly troops worldwide so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Well, maybe you guys need to get more of a military and not depend on us so much. After all bro it is YOUR PM that does not want us to pull out OUR troops. Therein lies the point my man. If he can not back his mouth up with his own countrymen he may want to shut that ass up. BTW I smoked that and it tastes just like chicken

[sicklecow]

Maybe you Americans need to realise the sun doesnt shine out of your arse and take a look at the numbers before mouthing off. Australia troop numbers are so low it's not funny, we basically dont have a military. Thats why there are so little troops there. Mind you going from past wars Australian troops are or at least were considered some of the most deadly troops worldwide so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

USA: 1.4 million active duty, 130 thousand (9.3%) deployed
AUS: 51 thousand active duty, 800 (1.2%) deployed

Rather than generalizing about an entire nation's citizens (and then failing to pluralize "arse" to boot), why don't you "take a look at the numbers before mouthing off?" And what does the history of your troops' reputation have to do with anything? That doesn't change the fact that your PM's a moron, now does it?

[McDarragh]

Hiding behind you lmao, true our PM sucks GWB's ass that much is true. You are so far away from us you couldn't help us if we were invaded anyway. The only reason you saved our assess in the WW was because Japan bombed the shit out of ya's in Pearl Harbour and you wanted revenge, it was nothing to do with your 'duty to protect us'. Secondly we wouldnt have this problem if America stopped selling there guns to everyone.

P.S you daying your President isnt a moron? cause if you are you are blind. Edited February 13, 2007 by McDarragh

[Scalliwag]

Find me a republican willing to slam GW in 2002/2003 and I will show you a good person.

How about Specter? I admired his willingness to speak out in recent years, until that "compromise" about Bush's ability to label virtually anyone as a terrorist.

He cowed to the administration and his party to get his chairmanship on the judiciary committee. He was next in line behind Orrin Hatch. His cowing nearly cost him his last re-election where he had to go back to distancing himself from GW.
I like him more than most repubs though and he was the only repub I remember that said in so many words that the Clinton investigations was a witchhunt. So between election cycles he has his moments of thinking and speaking for himself.

[Scalliwag]

Hiding behind you lmao, true our PM sucks GWB's ass that much is true. You are so far away from us you couldn't help us if we were invaded anyway. The only reason you saved our assess in the WW was because Japan bombed the shit out of ya's in Pearl Harbour and you wanted revenge, it was nothing to do with your 'duty to protect us'. Secondly we wouldnt have this problem if America stopped selling there guns to everyone.

P.S you daying your President isnt a moron? cause if you are you are blind.

I think maybe my posts drag on a little long that you didn't notice my position on Iraq is it was a very ill-conceived and poorly planned invasion. I have thought GW was an idiot since before he was even governor here in Texas.
Your PM is his buddy and by default that means he sucks in my book.
The point is though that your PM which you don't like anyway popped off about how gung-ho he is about this war and Obama called him out on it. Obama does not want more troops sent there, I don't want more troops sent there but the point was to show that Howard is a prick just like GW.
Problem is that GW will not let a little thing like common sense get in the way of getting more of our guys killed.

I don't think Aussies are cowards and from what I am reading your people are telling Howard to shut his mouth. Your countrymen and most of mine feel the same way about our leaders right now.