Why Is The Grass Greener On The Left?

[Lakemonster]

Just got to wondering as I read on here.... there are a lot of Democrat supporters... and alot of young persons doing the supporting.

I can certainly understand why most young folks and even some older folks want to oppose GWB leadership and policy. Hell, I oppose GWB. I can understand wanting to oppose the war and current policy.

The problem I have understanding is why people think the Democratic party is the answer? Other than opposing GWB, why would one be a Dem? Do you really think Liberal policy is the answer?

Have any of you considered other parties out there before choosing the Dem party?

I guess Im just having a problem with the mindset that the people must vote Republicrat....just a little baffled.

[rattler]

Registered libertarian here. I may be "throwing away" my vote in some people's opinion, but at least I value my vote enough to vote my beliefs.

[[LB]]

i used to be a republican, but Bush messed up the whole political spectrum, and all the republicans followed him. Now being a republican is being far right, while a dem is still just hovering around the center.

[rattler]

Democrat is hovering around the center? What Democrats are you looking at in the Democrat party? Most of them are way far to the left.

[Hookah_Bob3]

I agree entirely. I, however, am a conservative, but that does not mean that I support the current Republican party. The ones in office right now are much more aligned with fascism than conservativism, unfortunately.

I do see that almost my entire generation (I'm 20) are Democrats, and I don't understand it. They support causes they don't understand, they oppose causes they don't understand, all because they're told to.

I'm in college and it's staggering to see how many liberal agenda'd professors there are. That's where it's all coming from. Teachers, professors, whatever pushing their beliefs on us, the students.

[hmpitags2006]

I agree entirely. I, however, am a conservative, but that does not mean that I support the current Republican party. The ones in office right now are much more aligned with fascism than conservativism, unfortunately.

I do see that almost my entire generation (I'm 20) are Democrats, and I don't understand it. They support causes they don't understand, they oppose causes they don't understand, all because they're told to.

I'm in college and it's staggering to see how many liberal agenda'd professors there are. That's where it's all coming from. Teachers, professors, whatever pushing their beliefs on us, the students.

WERD

[Scalliwag]

Bill Clinton was a moderate and that was not good enough for republicans. H was far more to the center than some of the repubs like Chaffee and Specter. To me the democrats are the lesser of two evils and I certainly think the republican parties record with McCarthyism both far past and recent past defines them as evil.
As far as the other parties being any better just because that are not either to me is ridiculous as well. To me once the republican party is eliminated I would be happy to consider another party. But Nader voters put this dickweed in and we have a long way to go before we recover from their mistake.

Most of the people that I talk to cannot even name the senators from their own state but they talk as though they have a good grasp of politics and all they know is what their Daddy told them. Hand me down partisanship.
Oh, and Jesse Ventura is a great example of high expectations going bust.

[Lakemonster]

I do admit that I am a very conservative person.... but not entirely.

I have some views that dismay my far right peers. I am for responsible Pro-Choice, for instance.

I have voted Libertarian in the past, even in the last State elections.... I can get behind the Libertarians all the way up to the open border stance... and then then I slam on the brakes.

I am a Constitution Party supporter to the fullest...... well almost.

My problem with the two party system is that no matter what they act like when they campaign.... they usally tend to follow party lines on issues you expected them to oppose.... a moderate Dem or Rep will usually go along party lines even if it is not the wishes of the constituency.

I would be much more supportive of the Republican party if the Neo-Cons didnt exist.... and werent the ones in power at the moment.

I have the same problem with Clinton as I have with Bush.... I feel that both of them are "special interest" motivated. The other thing is that much of Dem policy is geared toward big gov and "nanny" laws.... and now the Reps are doing pretty much the same but geared more towards developing a Police State.

[ghostofdavid]

Uhm... the fiscal Republican of today is the Democrat of the Johnsonian era.

I once heard someone say that if you are not a liberal by the age of 20, you're heartless....

And if you aren't a conservative by the time you're 30, you're brainless.

It's a silly quote, but I tend to agree with it. I think most government programs should be privatized, such as education. If it works in Connecticut, why would it not work in the rest of the United States?

Gun control isn't an issue people should be concerned about since the people pulling the trigger are the problem. Creating more gun laws only punishes the law abiding citizen who has arms by restricting what they can purchase, not after the crime has been committed by someone who illegally obtained a firearm and broke a law with it. The ATF should be abolished.

(Most) Drugs should be legalized. Abolish the DEA.

Abortion should be legalized but handled in a way that it is not a form of cash crop of Science and research or the harvesting of tissues for money, but for PURELY science instead. I ethically think that abortion is wrong, but the government does not work on these ethics alone and thus abortion should be legal.

The tax system needs revamping. www.fairtax.org . Abolish the IRS.

People and the governments they make up, need to take personal accountability and responsibility for their actions. I think that most problems would be solved if people did something other than blaming the majority, blaming their circumstances, and demanding the government play nanny to them so that people can be bad brothers, sisters, parents, and citizens.

I need footnotes for all of these ideas, but none of you are going to change your minds even with footnotes so do the research yourselves.

Yes, I vote and you should, too.

[Scalliwag]

Heck if the necons were not in the republican party I would be a republican too. But these guys are the sleeziest for of sleeze. Tom DeLay, Bob Barr, Dick Armey, Newt Gingrich, I know they are all former, but their history was incredible.
Bill Clinton ran on and signed a bill for welfare reform to the dismay of a lot of people in his party and the repubs handed it to him just before the '96 elections (in August to be exact) trying to cost him votes by signing it or if he didn't sign it they could call him a liar. He called them out on their timing and said if they were not so interested in using it for a political wedge they could have done it almost two years ago.
But repubs are not really that interested in any of that. They want the lowest taxes possible for the wealthiest and deregulation so they can legally scam people.
No one with any historical knowledge will argue that the repubs put politics over policy in the timing of the welfare reform bill http://www-cgi.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/ne...2/welfare.sign/

This one act speaks volumes about them. And trust me I can go on and on with specific examples of their corruption as a whole... not just individual republicans. That is the problem with them. Any republican that was for welfare rerom like they always bitched about should have been raising hell with their representatives over the way they handled it.
Everything including this war has been calculated and timed by politics. Pure fuggin evil.

[rattler]

I do admit that I am a very conservative person.... but not entirely.

I have some views that dismay my far right peers. I am for responsible Pro-Choice, for instance.

I have voted Libertarian in the past, even in the last State elections.... I can get behind the Libertarians all the way up to the open border stance... and then then I slam on the brakes.

I am a Constitution Party supporter to the fullest...... well almost.

My problem with the two party system is that no matter what they act like when they campaign.... they usally tend to follow party lines on issues you expected them to oppose.... a moderate Dem or Rep will usually go along party lines even if it is not the wishes of the constituency.

I would be much more supportive of the Republican party if the Neo-Cons didnt exist.... and werent the ones in power at the moment.

I have the same problem with Clinton as I have with Bush.... I feel that both of them are "special interest" motivated. The other thing is that much of Dem policy is geared toward big gov and "nanny" laws.... and now the Reps are doing pretty much the same but geared more towards developing a Police State.

Yeah the Libraterian open border policy is crap.

[smiley]

Uhm... the fiscal Republican of today is the Democrat of the Johnsonian era.

I once heard someone say that if you are not a liberal by the age of 20, you're heartless....

And if you aren't a conservative by the time you're 30, you're brainless.

It's a silly quote, but I tend to agree with it. I think most government programs should be privatized, such as education. If it works in Connecticut, why would it not work in the rest of the United States?

Gun control isn't an issue people should be concerned about since the people pulling the trigger are the problem. Creating more gun laws only punishes the law abiding citizen who has arms by restricting what they can purchase, not after the crime has been committed by someone who illegally obtained a firearm and broke a law with it. The ATF should be abolished.

(Most) Drugs should be legalized. Abolish the DEA.

Abortion should be legalized but handled in a way that it is not a form of cash crop of Science and research or the harvesting of tissues for money, but for PURELY science instead. I ethically think that abortion is wrong, but the government does not work on these ethics alone and thus abortion should be legal.

The tax system needs revamping. www.fairtax.org . Abolish the IRS.

People and the governments they make up, need to take personal accountability and responsibility for their actions. I think that most problems would be solved if people did something other than blaming the majority, blaming their circumstances, and demanding the government play nanny to them so that people can be bad brothers, sisters, parents, and citizens.

I need footnotes for all of these ideas, but none of you are going to change your minds even with footnotes so do the research yourselves.

Yes, I vote and you should, too.

I with that.
Smiley

[Scheetz]

I lean more towards Rep, but I don't vote. Republican or Democrat, no matter which group is voted in will fuck up. It always happens, but people who think Kerry would have made this better are morons. He would be doing the exact same thing Bush is right now. Only difference is it would be a Democrat screwing things up.

I am still in belief that the President is the country's scape goat. He is just there to take the blame from Americans and the other countries pissed off at us. I fully believe there is a group of people who make the calls for us. A mix of Dem and Rep people that call the shots. I am not ignorant to our government, I have taken my government classes, hold conversations regularly about our government and know how it "works."


The whole 1 continent together action that is going on right now, was started back in the early 90s if not before that. Bush Sr. was working on that and now his son is seeing it through and so will the next president. Everything Bush Jr. is doing now was started by a president before him. You just dont hear about who started it, just who is working on it right now.

[Scalliwag]

Hmmmm. I don't buy that. For one, repubs would not have idly sat by at let a democrat do what they idly sat back and watched Bush do. The same people that went postal over a BJ after an almost 80 million dollar investigation yet had no problems over being lied to about a war have a very low tolerance of the opposition party.
They cannot even handle a a little criticism of their leader without wanting to blacklist someone.

So I guess I am one of those "morons" you speak of that think it is incredibly stupid to make an assumption that Kerry would have done just as bad. The whole argument being a non-provable assumption is lame. Maybe he would have done worse, I don't know. I do know that the current commander in chief appears to have absolutely no depth in concentration whenever he seems to talk.
There are cause and effects to any and all decisions. GW refuses to attempt any sort of diplomacy. One could make the argument that with diplomacy we would be in much better shape and at least had more respect.
But again that is a moot point. We just know where we are and while some can believe that all of this is the work of some evil bi-partisan commitee there is one thing GW has said that I believe. People need to take personal responsibility.... even though he appears to never practice that himself.

[jorgio]

Im a conservative and although dont entirely agree with Bush Im glad that Kerry didnt get it, and pray to God that Hillary doesnt. Rudy seems like a good canidate for 2008.

[Scalliwag]

You are a conservative and hope for Rudy to get in? Rudy is less conservative than me on things like gun control or family values for that matter. Hell, he was married to a second cousin. He is a gungho supporter of Bush and supported him at every phase in the way he has done just about everything.
Cops can kill innocent people as in the case where they unloaded over 50 rounds into an unarmed immigrant and he said after they were acquitted and I quote "justice was served today" and was giddy. He showed no sympathy for the family of the victim.
He shacked up with his girlfriend while still married. But he is a great guy?

To me he is proof that a repub will support anybody with an R next to their name. Wow, truly amazing. After all there were people like Snowe, Hagel, and a few other repubs criticising GW's handling of the war but everytime GW would talk about war skeptics he would only mention democrats. He even went on to support Chafee who was one of the biggest critics.
Pardon me for sounding a little harsh at times but I pay a little too much attention to details not to bring up serious specific flaws. Short, concise opinions with nothing to validate the reasoning makes me wonder a lot about what the heartfelt opinions are based on.

Not to say this is the case but most religious people believe certain things because their parents were. So many of those when asked why they believe this do not really know much about what it is they supposedly believe.
They are the ones that tend to get pissed when asked what exactly it is they believe.
Some do and that their case very well. Others get a deer in the headlight look. Try it sometime and see what I mean.

[jorgio]

I never said he was a saint or a good guy for that matter but with the numbers leaning toward the left I would rather have sombody that is more moderate that a left wing nut... I know his past and am not ignorant to his policies on gun control. But if given the choice between him and clinton I would go with rudy.

[Scalliwag]

I am not to crazy about the thought of Hillary either. But all we need is another wiseass like Bush that has absolutely no diplomatic skills. He is hardly a moderate. Being extreme left on some positions and extreme right on others hardly balances into moderation. What is he moderate about? His war views, extreme right. His family values and most domestic issues, extreme left.

[jorgio]

The fact of the matter is if the GOP puts somebody who is remotely close to being a right wing then he'll never have a chance. I mean if not rudy then who, we need sombody who is niether completely right or left.

[Scalliwag]

I don't think Rudy can win either though. If you think people detest Bush now, give it a year. No one with ties to Bush will stand a chance. Like the rest of the repubs that lost the last election even when they tried to distance themselves he will not have any support from the right and any moderate is going to be turned off the more they learn about him.
The only chance of getting a moderate is with the dems. Repubs hate to hear that but there are a lot of moderates leaving the republican party.
Keep in mind that most people know that the repubs lack of any oversight got us into this mess and that R next to their name is their achilles heel. Just like a D next to anyones name in all honesty is all a hardcore repub will ever see just like an R tells me they hang with the wrong crowd.
The dems are much more likely to elect a moderate in the primary than the republicans. That will be their downfall.

So the question is why does the grass look greener on the left? Well, with GW, Libby, Abramoff, Ney, Foley, Randy Cunningham, Tom DeLay, Enron, Iraq, all unfolding without any investigative powers by dems and now they actually have the power to jack their ass up.... I don't think that the grass is greener on the other side as much as there is nothing but scandal after scandal after scandal..... and that is without 80 million dollar investigations.
And the best a republican seems to be able to do right now is make excuses without substance.

[jorgio]

I agree with some of what you say, and I assure you that I am not the kind of voter that just looks for the "R". To say that scandal lies only within republicans is far from the truth though, as I am sure you know. It is a shame that lately voters are having to choose the "lesser of two evils".

[Scalliwag]

Well I am not saying that scandal only lies within the republican party. Hell, the feds found 90k in the freezer of the dem and he was re-elected. But the dems pulled him off of the commitee he was on and keft him as powerless as they could.
Bob Ney, Duke Cunningham and other repubs were so obviously tied into the Abramoff scandal it was not funny and the repubs did nothing.
The degree of the lesser evil is far less.
The other political parties in pre-WWII Germany had their problems but the lesser of the evils when it came to the Nazis would have still been a better choice ya know? Yet another party of members that either committed evil or condoned it by pretending it was not happening.