Real I.d.

[popete]

So is anyone else pissed off about this? I mean come on everyone is going to be required to carry around identification everywere just to go on a plane or get a book from the library. It's stupid the only countrys that gave their citizens I.D. like this were Nazi Germany and Communist Russia and look how great it worked out form their citizens.

Once this new I.D. is put into use in 2008 your drivers license will be obsolete as the Real I.D. will take over as the only piece of I.D. you'll need. In order to use any government programs you have to have one of these I.D.'s so you cant go on a plane without one or rent a book from the library. The government is using this to "protect us" against terrorists which is just stupid because now the government has taken away our privacy. They will have records of everywere you have gone, and when you use your I.D. at the gas station the owner can sell your information to marketers who will then send you junk mail using your information.

This is supposed to make it harder for terrorists to use planes to attack us (which is dumb because I think terrorists have figured out that we only think they will attack us with planes and are obviously not going to use that plan anymore). This just makes it easier because now they will only need one set of documents instead or a passport and drivers license and all that crap.

So what do you guys think is this not stupid? Or am I not understanding correctly?

[tingjunkie]

Can you post a link to a reliable news source for this info? I've heard rumors of things like this, but I wasn't aware there was an actual plan to put it into action. That would be news to me.

Real "mark of the Beast" stuff though if it's true. At least I'll have my Irish citizenship by then if it happens- grandad was born in Wicklow, thank god!

[kornkitten42]

So is anyone else pissed off about this? I mean come on everyone is going to be required to carry around identification everywere just to go on a plane or get a book from the library. It's stupid the only countrys that gave their citizens I.D. like this were Nazi Germany and Communist Russia and look how great it worked out form their citizens.

Once this new I.D. is put into use in 2008 your drivers license will be obsolete as the Real I.D. will take over as the only piece of I.D. you'll need. In order to use any government programs you have to have one of these I.D.'s so you cant go on a plane without one or rent a book from the library. The government is using this to "protect us" against terrorists which is just stupid because now the government has taken away our privacy. They will have records of everywere you have gone, and when you use your I.D. at the gas station the owner can sell your information to marketers who will then send you junk mail using your information.

This is supposed to make it harder for terrorists to use planes to attack us (which is dumb because I think terrorists have figured out that we only think they will attack us with planes and are obviously not going to use that plan anymore). This just makes it easier because now they will only need one set of documents instead or a passport and drivers license and all that crap.

So what do you guys think is this not stupid? Or am I not understanding correctly?

"What's all the fuss with the Real ID Act about?
President Bush is expected to sign an $82 billion military spending bill soon that will, in part, create electronically readable, federally approved ID cards for Americans. The House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved the package--which includes the Real ID Act--on Thursday."

I will be so upset at our nation if we pass this. I hope that the House put the amendment on the bill knowing that the senate would fail the entire bill.
It's scary.

As for the future, because they will attempt this again.... How is this going to protect you? How? You can conterfit anything in this world. Who is going to keep the people that are making these cards from selling your information or anything like that? Who is going to watch the people that are watching us?

Who are they to decide our fate? I am so irritated now. We need to get bush out of the white house. This is the most screwed up adminstration, we need to start over start fresh and bring our boys and girls home. How come these power hungry idiots always want to turn our lives into a 1984 horror convention? i swear..... Edited February 25, 2007 by kornkitten42

[kornkitten42]

http://news.com.com/FAQ+How+Real+ID+will+a..._3-5697111.html


there are other news articles about it on that site as well.



What are your feelings on this issue? How do you react to this? What would you do if it did come into affect, and what about marshall law? that would most likely insue? Edited February 25, 2007 by kornkitten42

[tingjunkie]

OK did some research...

Yeah, pretty scary stuff. This admin is truly out of their minds, and the Dems are too pussy to stand up to them. Luckily, many states (led by my home state of Maine- Yeah!) are now oposing the act, and refusing to comply. Hopefully the ID's will never come to pass.

America is getting closer and closer to becoming a Fascist country, but very few of us want to admit it. Everyone else is either ignorant of history and current events, or they prefer to take the ostrich approach- "Our government would never do that! They just want what's best for us. They must know something we don't- I'll just have to trust them."

[kornkitten42]

damn it!

i looked a little harder and we actually passed the stupid bill!!!!!

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/sta...0221realid.html

http://theapp.appstate.edu/content/view/2096/56/

plus also known as "homeland security law".......


omg... i'm going to go puke now........

[djbomberto]

one day we will be like russia.....Then people use scare tactics to get people to give up their freedom for "safety". sad.

[Akkbar]

you americans should quit whining. most of you guys are guaranteed the right to have firearms at least as good as any potential invading country (sorry california, ur screwed). your government still fears you. i just hope that enough of you will have the balls it takes to stand up for what you believe is right.

here in canada, its next to impossible to get a full auto weapon, and there is probably going to be a semi-auto ban here very soon. good thing i already got mine. our government wants us under their thumb. canada is a lot more fucked up than the U.S., and i imagine if we had the right to bear arms, we'd probably have overthown the gov and joined you guys a long time ago. most smart canadian's wish we were part of the U.S. so we'd have freedom. it's pretty bad in canada...

as for this new i.d. crap, it reminds me of the gun registry. every facist regime always makes their citizens register their guns as well as themselves and they keep a big list of 'potential threats', so that when said government wants to crush you, they know who to make 'disappear' first. nazi's did it, soviets did it, italy did it, vichy france did it, china does it.

Henrick Himmler said something to the effect of, "Private citizens having guns serves no purpose. If a citizen wants to use guns, they can join the SS or the SA so they can advance the will of the government." A canadian politician recently said the same thing, almost word for word.

I know Im kinda going off topic, and i dont mean 'whining' in a hurtful way... just realize that you guys can still do something about it. It's getting to be too late for us up here... there's only a handful of us that would actually resist stupidity, but it's hard with bolt action hunting rifles. Edited February 26, 2007 by Akkbar

[tingjunkie]

most smart canadian's wish we were part of the U.S. so we'd have freedom. it's pretty bad in canada...

Besides the right to have automatic guns, what freedoms do we have that Canadians don't? I'm confused.

[Akkbar]

oh man id have to dig into my archives but off the top of my head...

look at the two constututions

[Scheetz]

here in canada, its next to impossible to get a full auto weapon, and there is probably going to be a semi-auto ban here very soon. good thing i already got mine. our government wants

LOL, you realize that to own a full auto you need a class license that you pay out the ass for. Then you are taxed like crazy. Same if you want to own a silencer. And you gravely overestimate what americans are capable of. Trust me, this government could ruin this country and very few people would stand up and do a thing about it.

[ghostofdavid]

here in canada, its next to impossible to get a full auto weapon, and there is probably going to be a semi-auto ban here very soon. good thing i already got mine. our government wants

LOL, you realize that to own a full auto you need a class license that you pay out the ass for. Then you are taxed like crazy. Same if you want to own a silencer. And you gravely overestimate what americans are capable of. Trust me, this government could ruin this country and very few people would stand up and do a thing about it.

Scheetz, that is not all technically true. To own a full auto weapon, it was be manufactured before the year of May 19, 1986 after you pay the $200 serf tax to your local lord or master, nothing more. To be a class three dealer/manufacturer and to own weapons made after the '86 cut off date (you need to pay around 500-1500 dollars (depending on what variant of class 3 you would like to project yourself as) a year and then you can carry anything made before or after the May 19th cut off date. A similiar tax applies to supressors (there is no such thing as a silencer...), but we can all own supressors manufactured after 1986. However, we have to pay a 200 dollar one-time serf tax to transfer it to our name.

If the government tried to take all of our guns away, few people would do anything about it because of the sissification of America. Men are rarely men anymore and no one wants to die for anything but convience (oh yea, Dead Kennedeys reference). Examples? NOLA, San Francisco, California as a whole, and most New England states have embrassing gun laws (except for Vermont, I think) and as a tool continues to be demonized people become fearful of them.

[Lakemonster]

I have one of the Class III forms around here someplace.... its tri-fold application that that that gets pretty deep off into your background...then once you have the thing filled out.... you have to go to the cheif of police in your town or the Sheriffs Dept and have him/her sign off on it. The Police/Sheriff have the right to not to sign it if they "just dont feel like it" . For instance.... Sherif Smith of Smith County, Texas wont sign off for a suppressor, but will sign for an full-auto.

Then you send it in and wait for around 90 days.

The trick on NFA weaponry is thta the cost of the stamp that gets affixed to the application is $200. The cost of the weapon is outrageous.... and you have to have it transfered to you through a ClassIII dealer..... who wants to get paid to do it.... so for the average joe... a full aout weapon becomes out of reach financially.

Class III weapons that are made after the 86' date have to have been made full auto by a Class II licencesed armorer.... and thers so much restriction on what they can and cant make full auto that its a joke.

[SafeSearchOff]

If the government tried to take all of our guns away, few people would do anything about it because of the sissification of America. Men are rarely men anymore and no one wants to die for anything but convience (oh yea, Dead Kennedeys reference). Examples? NOLA, San Francisco, California as a whole, and most New England states have embrassing gun laws (except for Vermont, I think) and as a tool continues to be demonized people become fearful of them.

theres a law in my town, where if you get approval from all nerighbors directly adjacent to you, you can hunt whatever is on your property. My friend's dad's idea of a nice relaxing weekend is sitting up in his attic with a 22 shooting deer, or whatever comes on his property.


and I live in New Jersey

[ghostofdavid]

If the government tried to take all of our guns away, few people would do anything about it because of the sissification of America. Men are rarely men anymore and no one wants to die for anything but convience (oh yea, Dead Kennedeys reference). Examples? NOLA, San Francisco, California as a whole, and most New England states have embrassing gun laws (except for Vermont, I think) and as a tool continues to be demonized people become fearful of them.

theres a law in my town, where if you get approval from all nerighbors directly adjacent to you, you can hunt whatever is on your property. My friend's dad's idea of a nice relaxing weekend is sitting up in his attic with a 22 shooting deer, or whatever comes on his property.


and I live in New Jersey

I hope he is not shooting deer with .22LR. That would be heinously cruel to the animal... that is a calibre that should be used in very small game. The .22LR rifles my cousin have are considered "assault" rifles because they hold something like 15 rounds in their tube... made by Marlin designed for smaller framed people (children) to shoot... on the NJ list of unapproved firearms.

In Indiana, you don't need permission from neighbors to hunt, unless you are on THEIR land.

[SafeSearchOff]

keep in mind I live in a highly populated area, not indiana >.<
as for the rifle, i know close to nothing about guns, and he calls it "his 22" and i know the 22 is a rifle... so yeah w/e's.

[nuschultz]

I'm going out on a limb, but I like the concept.

Currently in my wallet I have to carry:
NYS Drivers License
NYS Dept of Health EMT card
NYS C&C Pistol Permit
NYS Security Officer License
and the list goes on.

If I could carry one card, with some sort of smart chip on it, that would make my life significantly. I'm not talking about bank information, or any of the other personal information, but being able to consolidate would be nice.

From a law enforcement perspective, running someones name through a centralized database would yield, in my instance, that I am probably carrying a gun, that it is probably for work, that I can save lives, and that I am entitled to drive. All of this is information that the government has anyway. Basically, this just centralizes it.

[Sariél]

theres a law in my town, where if you get approval from all nerighbors directly adjacent to you, you can hunt whatever is on your property. My friend's dad's idea of a nice relaxing weekend is sitting up in his attic with a 22 shooting deer, or whatever comes on his property.


and I live in New Jersey

I thimk I realized we were redneck when my dad opened up the Sliding glass door on our trailer, popped open a beer, and sat on the couch watching TV, waiting for the gopher to stick his head up out of the hole in the front lawn. Got 'em, first shot. This was in So Cal, just north of LA. Admittedly, Santa Clarita was a lot more rural then, population about 25,000, instead of the 250,000 living here now. Nowdays, you shoot one snake and the swat team is there in 20 minutes (now that Deadwood is finished filming across the street, and things have quieted down a bit).

But to get back to the original topic, I am in favor of a single card. They can trace you through your different accounts anyway, and I wouldn't mind slimming down my wallet a bit. I think I've got a permanent dent in my right cheek from all those damn grocery "club" or "discount" cards. Sign me up for the implanted chip!

I'm still undecided as to whether I want the new chipped passports. The techno-geek in me says "Cool! High tech!" but the paranoid side of me doesn't want to transmit my identity or let hidden sensors track me. Hook them up to the right database, and you'll be detained at the supermarket until you pay your parking tickets!

OK, back to the bunker to upgrade my firewall and anonymous proxy...

[ghostofdavid]

Well, the DK summed it up best when they were criticizing the mindset of many people in the modern era... Give me convience, or give me death. Edited March 16, 2007 by ghostofdavid

[Scheetz]

Scheetz, that is not all technically true. To own a full auto weapon, it was be manufactured before the year of May 19, 1986 after you pay the $200 serf tax to your local lord or master, nothing more. To be a class three dealer/manufacturer and to own weapons made after the '86 cut off date (you need to pay around 500-1500 dollars (depending on what variant of class 3 you would like to project yourself as) a year and then you can carry anything made before or after the May 19th cut off date. A similiar tax applies to supressors (there is no such thing as a silencer...), but we can all own supressors manufactured after 1986. However, we have to pay a 200 dollar one-time serf tax to transfer it to our name.

If the government tried to take all of our guns away, few people would do anything about it because of the sissification of America. Men are rarely men anymore and no one wants to die for anything but convience (oh yea, Dead Kennedeys reference). Examples? NOLA, San Francisco, California as a whole, and most New England states have embrassing gun laws (except for Vermont, I think) and as a tool continues to be demonized people become fearful of them.

Eh, surpressor/silencer they can be used loosely. The only issue I see when using surpressor is a good portion of people do not know what you are talking about. Yes, I know about the cut off dates, but if your like me and want to own an HK MP5 tossing out over $10,000 for one gun is a bit rediculous. I only made my statement because alot of canadians think full auto guns are everywhere (that are legal) and we can buy them for a few bucks. Its a bit more complicated than that.

I'm going out on a limb, but I like the concept.

Currently in my wallet I have to carry:
NYS Drivers License
NYS Dept of Health EMT card
NYS C&C Pistol Permit
NYS Security Officer License
and the list goes on.

If I could carry one card, with some sort of smart chip on it, that would make my life significantly. I'm not talking about bank information, or any of the other personal information, but being able to consolidate would be nice.

From a law enforcement perspective, running someones name through a centralized database would yield, in my instance, that I am probably carrying a gun, that it is probably for work, that I can save lives, and that I am entitled to drive. All of this is information that the government has anyway. Basically, this just centralizes it.

I can agree with that. It would be nice if they would put the Concealed Carry on your drivers license. It would be nice if your insurance info could also be made into a single card with everything else. Its a bit more complicated though because if you change carriers well your whole card is now messed up. But if they came up with a way to make your 1 card swipe at the doctors and everywhere else it would automaticaly update itself if you changed any info. Thus giving you 1 card.

Too bad we cant do anything about all those annoying gift cards that I carry in my wallet.

[Blue Midnight]

you americans should quit whining. most of you guys are guaranteed the right to have firearms at least as good as any potential invading country (sorry california, ur screwed). your government still fears you. i just hope that enough of you will have the balls it takes to stand up for what you believe is right.

here in canada, its next to impossible to get a full auto weapon, and there is probably going to be a semi-auto ban here very soon. good thing i already got mine. our government wants us under their thumb. canada is a lot more fucked up than the U.S., and i imagine if we had the right to bear arms, we'd probably have overthown the gov and joined you guys a long time ago. most smart canadian's wish we were part of the U.S. so we'd have freedom. it's pretty bad in canada...

as for this new i.d. crap, it reminds me of the gun registry. every facist regime always makes their citizens register their guns as well as themselves and they keep a big list of 'potential threats', so that when said government wants to crush you, they know who to make 'disappear' first. nazi's did it, soviets did it, italy did it, vichy france did it, china does it.

Henrick Himmler said something to the effect of, "Private citizens having guns serves no purpose. If a citizen wants to use guns, they can join the SS or the SA so they can advance the will of the government." A canadian politician recently said the same thing, almost word for word.

I know Im kinda going off topic, and i dont mean 'whining' in a hurtful way... just realize that you guys can still do something about it. It's getting to be too late for us up here... there's only a handful of us that would actually resist stupidity, but it's hard with bolt action hunting rifles.

Do you really believe that the government is scared of a citizen (or even group of citizens) with a gun (or multiple guns). Look at the weaponary and army our government has at its disposal to destroy basically anything or anybody. The idea that the government can't control us or take our homes, property, etc. because we can own guns is just laughable. Edited March 17, 2007 by Blue Midnight

[Oracle]

Do you really believe that the government is scared of a citizen (or even group of citizens) with a gun (or multiple guns). Look at the weaponary and army our government has at its disposal to destroy basically anything or anybody. The idea that the government can't control us or take our homes, property, etc. because we can own guns is just laughable.

Yes, actually, governments are scared of citizens and groups of citizens with guns. See, the military may have all the technology and weaponry in the world, but what are they going to do with it? Bomb the entire block? Nuke the whole city? Or even use so-called "smart weapons" and blow up someone's house, quite possibly harming others around them? Unlikely, because this would cause them even more problems, maybe even outright revolt. They'd have to occupy the area to control it, and to do so, that requires boots on the ground - people. And people are just as vulnerable to guns in the hands of citizens as they are guns in the hands of other soldiers. And there are a lot more citizens in most places than there are soldiers/police to control them, giving the citizens the numerical advantage. Realize, there are hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of private citizens in the United States. That gives any government wanting to foment tyranny in the US pause to think. It's the reason the Japanese didn't try any large-scale invasions of the US, as Admiral Yamamoto said in 1941 "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

Now, others have talked about the motivation required to get US citizens to actually do this, and they may be right. But that doesn't mean that they're not capable, if necessary.

As for the Real ID act, I agree, I don't like the "papers please" situation it creates either. Fortunately, my State (GA) is one of the ones fighting it.

[kornkitten42]

I don't care about convienence. Again for "protection" we are giving up more freedoms. Just like we gave up our right to privacy over e-mails, internet, and phone conversations. The ability to have privacy in our own homes by wire taps and bugs so the government can route out terrorists............


I say NO! We as a united body need to stand up to our government instead of acting like sheep. You try to take my guns and you'll have to pry them from my cold dead body. The people shouldn't be afraid of their government, A govenment should be afraid of it's people. Unfortunately with all the freedoms that we are letting them widdle away, they are slowing deminishing the fear of their people.

it's not inconvienent to fly in a plane right now you dont have to show an arm and a leg of documentation to prove who you are. You dont have to provide a but load for your dr office after your initial visit and even then for the initial visit, mine is just a dl and a insurance card...... neither for trains, bank accounts, etc , etc. All of these things you will have to use this for or even to enter a federal building. I feel this as a mark, not of the beast, but marking us. I dont like it. They make it so if you dont have your card you'll be fined and ticketed etc soon enough. After that, they'll use chips implanted in us and i'll move to another country before they will do that.

btw... did you know that the strip on your drivers license actually has your all of your dl information and insurance for your rv, your motorcycle, your car, all the cars you own etc information and such on it? and this strip is actually used now?

I would hate to have all my information in one place as who is watching the people that are watching me? yes i know that if you search hard enough anyone has access to it, but i feel if everything is lumped together it will be easier for identities to be stolen and fake ids to be made with other peoples info.

I've all ready had my identity stolen and credit cards used. Lucky i caught it in time and had police reports to back me up or my credit would be screwed. I do not want the possibility of it happening again. (my wallet was stolen and cc cards used and id used ect)


eh. this whole topic makes me sick to my stomach. What would our founding fathers say to all of this? They would rise up and revolt and start over again. They would NEVER put up with the crap we put up with now. Edited March 18, 2007 by kornkitten42