Question About Your Local Hookah Lounge...

[woot]

i went to this place over here and they had hookahs ranging from 13-$20, and had a minimum of 1 drink per person (drinks were like 3$). it was pretty cool though, we had half price within a certain time range i forgot. from what you guys are saying, this lounge doesn't seem all that bad right? it was my first time going to one so i dont know.

the smoke was really good too! too bad it only lasted for like 30 min to an hour

[Altron]

There are a few around where I live.

The closest is about 15 minutes away. The atmosphere is really nice, lava lamps, eletronic candles, t.v.s, nice sofas and couches. The service is very nice and friendly and welcome you in with a smile. The hookah/shisha is very expensive though. They raised the price up to $20, and I don't know what happened... it's very harsh... I think they poke too many big holes or don't pack it correctly... They also use quick light coals. They have a lot of flavors to offer, and their Indian/Asian food is very good, however, again still expensive.

Another hookah bar 30 mintues away. Cafe with very comfy sofas and chairs. They have regular tables to grab a bite, drink something, and watch live entertainment (acoustics, etc, very very nice). You have to pay extra on nights for live entertainment, which I don't mind... like $3 extra bucks. The food is very good, but pricey... The hookah isn't bad, they use hookahhookah shisha. Decently priced, but they charge per person smoking the hookah. Also someone smoked with asthma and then sued the place... so they have small coals now and the smoke isnt big at all, like cig smoke.

2 Hookah bars near rutgers, about 40-1 hour away. Awsome but the atmosphere isnt all that good. One is a little grimey and the other is a little bit better than the other. Owned by the same person and on the same street. Hookah is $7 and then $9 for al fakhar. It's awsome, best hookah I have ever had in my life. They walk around and use wood coals and give you tongs to manage them. Best buzz, and I have no idea what they do... Very crowded on weekends and there is a surchage if the tab is under $30, then its $5 per person.

There are a few other ones in Jersey that I have still yet to try. One in Paterson, Union (right outside Kean University), and Jersey City. Edited March 2, 2007 by Altron

[chrispy]

Last time i went to the hookah lounge I went to Smiley's (same one as from the earlier post) and it's per bowl, not per person. Other places in my town do charge person but it's like 5 dollars person or 10 for one person. But who goes to the hookah lounge alone?

[Chreees]

Don't anyone complain about him bumping an old thread...

I'll add to it-

In Memphis at the Oasis Lounge it was pretty pricey. First you have to buy a membership card, which is $5 and is good for one year. Kinda stupid, and I didn't see the point of it. They're were 8 of us in our group if I remember correctly. We got two hookahs, each one with four hoses, a hose for each of us. Sahara Smoke hookahs, Chinese hoses, mod bowls, Starbuzz tobaccy, and we got Exotica natural coals for a buck more per hookah (the guy talked us into it by saying they were healthier, so we were like okay; I'm glad we got them because I found out later QLs give me killer headaches). Now, if I recall correctly, as it was back in August 2009 I think, I paid $20 for me and my girl. And we all threw in cash for a tip for the guy who I now realize knew nothing about hookah. So... $5 to get the membership card (granted you won't have to pay it again for the whole year, I never went back, haha), $10 per person for the session, and then tip. I thought it was all an awesome experience at the time, but when I went back home to Middle TN and ordered my own Mya QT per the recommendations here on HF, I then realized how much of a crappy hookah experience it really was. I guess you can remember I said earlier I never went back...

Second hookah bar experience- Samiii's Hookah Lounge in Murfreesboro, TN. Crap, crap, crap. It's a shame too because it's RIGHT next door to my apts. Takes me literally a MINUTE to walk there. If it was $5, I'd go back again perhaps, mainly just to try different flavors of Starbuzz that have perked my interest before, even though I'm not a huge fan of SB based off of the flavors I have tried. But no. This "lounge" if you can even call it that, charges $21.95 per hookah, no matter what. Up to four people max on a hookah. He uses what he called "commercial Egyptian" hookahs. They looked like MZs maybe or just generic Egyptian pipes. The pipes seemed fine, but he used literally falling apart Chinese hoses that had duct and electrical tape on them, Egyptian bowls (hey atleast he got the bowls right), and used two Three Kings QLs, just plopping them on top of the bowl, side-by-side. We got barely ANY smoke. Oh, back to how it's a "lounge." It's a small business space located between a wine store and a beer store, really tiny, and the only seating available is a bunch of pillows on the floor setup in little sections. Some were divided by curtains. Very dark, with colored lights everywhere. Could barely see my friend in there. It was weird. The guy, Samiii, stands up front at the counter and already has hookahs ready to go with bowls already packed and poked. He'll have like ten SB tins out, and will only let you choose from those what you want to smoke, because that's what he already has prepared. He lets you smell each tin and decide. Kinda silly. No, REALLY silly. Anyway, we sat, he brought it to us, then he never came and checked on us. No, instead he sat RIGHT on the other side of the curtain dividing out little sections. I mean, he was literally right beside me. This guy is like 40 something. He was sitting and smoking with this 18 year old girl. I know this because I heard her tell him her age. He was sitting there smoking with her, hitting on her. And she gave him her phone number. My friend and I sat in silence, staring at each other. It was really weird. After 30 minutes, no more smoke. I didn't have any tongs on me (who would take tongs when you go to a HOOKAH bar), and he wouldn't get off his ass to come ash our coals. So we got up, he got up, we paid, we left. No everytime I walk by his "lounge" at night, the parking spots in front of it are always empty. I see him not lasting much longer.

But yeah, back to prices... $20 is too much. $5 plus $10 plus tip is too much (yes they ASK you for a tip). I'd say between $10 and $15 is just right, depending on different price tiers of different brands of tobacco a lounge serves. Say... Nakhla is $5, Tangiers is $10, and Starbuzz is $15. No, not a very good example, but you get the point. That seems a bit wrong, having SB at a higher tier than Tangiers, making it seem as though SB is best. I was just going by the fact SB is always more expensive per 250g than Tangiers is. You can have the price tiers any way you like, but I like them because I feel it gives people options, and people like options. The budget guy can come in and pay $5, while the businessman who has more money to blow can spend $15 or even $20, depending on how you have your tiers priced. If I ever run a lounge, I'm doing tiers.

[jorlyfish]

I've never seen anywhere that charges in addition to the hookah. There's a lounge in Houston I've been to a few times with a minimum of $10/person, but with say, 2 people smoking a $15 hookah and each having a soda/coffee/tea/cocktail or two, it's not hard to meet. They're really busy and want to make sure if people are taking up their limited table space, they're actually buying things.

[Cp44]

The lounges I go to usually charges a minimum of $10 when colleges are off during winter or spring break. I understand why he does this, majority are kids that sit 5-10 ppl per table and order 1 hookah to share and a jug of water. This happens quite often, he doesn't charge me or my friends a minimum because we are regulars there.

This other lounge charges a a $20 minimum but that lounge just sucks, shisha is horrible, service is crap and the environment is just dark. There were stories were this lounge will charge you on shit you didn't even order.

[ih303]

[quote name='Cp44' timestamp='1294159424' post='493311']
The lounges I go to usually charges a minimum of $10 when colleges are off during winter or spring break. I understand why he does this, majority are kids that sit 5-10 ppl per table and order 1 hookah to share and a jug of water. This happens quite often, he doesn't charge me or my friends a minimum because we are regulars there.
[/quote]

This is a very real problem, one which my partners and I are currently trying to figure out a solution to. We get groups of 10-15 kids who take up one of our couch areas (we only have two), order 10-15 waters and a small hookah, then demand constant attention and endless refills. They sit there for three to four hours, split their $12 ticket 10-15 ways, then bail leaving no tip. What to do?

I don't want to charge cover. I'm kind of leaning towards a combination of 1) Going back to limiting the number of people who can share a hookah, 2) Automatic gratuity on tables > 5 or so, and 3) Charging for water (this we've already done).

What all these cheap mothereffers don't understand is that it actually takes money to run a business. That server who keeps filling your water? We pay her. The guy who washes the glass and hookah after you use it? Yeah, we pay him too. Oh, and water's not free - we pay for that too. The lights, the music, the furniture, the heat, the toilet paper, the hose tips, the straws, THE BUILDING - we have to pay for. Seriosly, these stupid kids are coming in and are actually COSTING us money. I'm sick of it. I understand what it's like to be broke, but if you're that broke, maybe you shouldn't be at a hookah lounge, you know?

Sorry for the rant, but I've tried to be fair. RE Incu's post, our menu is tiered - only a little different.

$12 gets you a Mya QT/Hose and small egyptian clay head ("Standard")

$16 gets you a 28" KM, egyptian clay head, and Razan/Nammor hose ("Premium")

$20 gets you a 35" KM, Small Tangiers Phunnel, and Razan/Nammor hose ("Elite")

$25 gets you a four-hose, trimetal Temsaah with four Razan/Nammor hoses, Tangiers Phunnel Bowl, and comes with a free bowl refill ("Party Hookah")

My prices are based on the gear rather than on the baccy since I don't want people to choose their smoke based off of price. This enables people to try everything (we carry Nakhla, Al Fakher, Tangiers, Romman, and Starbuzz) The only exception is Romman and Tangiers Noir Flavors which we only serve in phunnels for obvious reasons. The Coconaras we top the bowl with until the bowl dies or the people leave - whichever comes first - are included in the price of the hookah.

So far, we don't have any restrictions or limitations, but I have a feeling this is going to change real soon. Honestly, I don't think it will be that big a deal since most of our customers expect to part with a little money when they come in and have no problem paying us for our services. It just irritates me that these guys come in and disrespect us... that's how I see it! We work hard to provide a great experience, and when these guys are basically saying that experience is worth less than a buck-a-head, I take offense.

Does this make sense? Am I sounding like a dick?

[joytron]

I totally think the number of people per hookah should be enforced. Where I used to go its two per hookah, which is kinda a bummer when you have three people. But having three or four people depending on the level of hookah seems fair.

[Chreees]

Ian, I think all of that is more than fair. You don't sound like a dick at all.

[jorlyfish]

[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1294170102' post='493328']
Ian, I think all of that is more than fair. You don't sound like a dick at all.
[/quote]

+1.

Not a dick, just trying to run a successful business.

[dizzbizz]

[quote name='chrispy' timestamp='1294133659' post='493293']
Last time i went to the hookah lounge I went to Smiley's (same one as from the earlier post) and it's per bowl, not per person. Other places in my town do charge person but it's like 5 dollars person or 10 for one person. But who goes to the hookah lounge alone?
[/quote]

Smiley's? You're in Tucson? Me too! Haha

[snugz13]

I went to the hookah bar recently with my girlfriend and it was 20$ for both of us and a hookah. not too bad with a live dj and dancing.

[snugz13]

and ih303 I think you have a very fair business and If i lived near your hookah lounge I would definitely go

[ih303]

New turn of events.

I mentioned in my post that we recently started charging for water ($0.50/glass + unlimited refills). Well, my partners think that we should stop offering water by the glass altogether in favor of bottles of water at $1 a piece.

Now I won't say at this point how I feel about that. I'd like to know how the rest of you feel about it first.

[joytron]

[quote name='ih303' timestamp='1294420951' post='493706']
New turn of events.

I mentioned in my post that we recently started charging for water ($0.50/glass + unlimited refills). Well, my partners think that we should stop offering water by the glass altogether in favor of bottles of water at $1 a piece.

Now I won't say at this point how I feel about that. I'd like to know how the rest of you feel about it first.


[/quote]

First off, I think charging for water all together is a bad business practice and, here in California, I am pretty sure its illegal (although maybe its okay if its a disposable cup and you say thats what you are charging for). In fact the only place I would patron that charges for water are asian places where the food is super cheap. Not having free water would be enough for me to stop going there. I would find other ways to squeeze your customers.

[Skoozle]

[quote name='ih303' timestamp='1294162019' post='493315']

This is a very real problem... What to do?

[/quote]

Haven't you reserved the right to refuse service to anyone?

If not, put that sign up in your place and kick the bastards out if you don't want them there.

[ih303]

[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1294425532' post='493712']
First off, I think charging for water all together is a bad business practice...[/quote]

I agree, but I'm kind of at a loss here for ideas. I don't really like the idea of "squeezing" people, as you say, but I also don't like the idea of being taken advantage of.

[quote name='Skoozle' timestamp='1294429839' post='493718']
Haven't you reserved the right to refuse service to anyone?
[/quote]

That's a slippery slope, man. Word of mouth travels fast, and it can either help or hurt you. Besides, it's not like we can tell who the cheapskates are when they come in.

It's all about perceived value, you know. I work really hard to make my lounge the best it can be so as to increase that value. That's why I get so irritated when I see people who perceive the value to be next to nothing. But that's business, right?

[Epoch]

Charging for water? I despise this idea.

I would much rather deal with paying for seats than buying water.

[Arcane]

I'd like to say go with the bottles and charge $1....but, it's probably more earth friendly to go with the free refill dealy.

[joytron]

I dont see why limiting the number of people per hookah is bad idea.

[magick777]

I don't know how US lounges work, but as a statement of principle, I dislike the idea of contrivance. Most European lounges are pretty straight forward.

The cost of the hookah should be the sustainable cost of serving the hookah, and should not rely on customers feeling pressured to buy anything else, not even a drink if they don't want one. If I want to pay you to serve shisha and nothing else, you should be able to quote me a price for that and not go out of business. The only honest way (imho) to prevent people from taking the piss is to impose a maximum number per hookah, and that maximum should be what the average table supports (for a single hose hookah) without losing you space for other customers. Four sounds like a reasonable number, perhaps with the option of a deal on a "party hookah" for 8 people sharing 4 hoses, or a "multi hookah" deal for groups. This is also not an unreasonable restriction in that trying to exceed those numbers will not give the customer the best experience.

Whether water should be free or chargeable depends on local custom; it is expected in Spain and many Asian cultures; it isn't in Britain as a rule. However, it should not be a relevant factor in whether the business is viable or whether customers come in to enjoy hookah on sustainable terms. If fifteen people want to come in and take up two tables, sharing two party hookah deals at the asking price, nobody should need to begrudge them two jugs of water and the glasses - but there should be a precondition that fifteen people can't share one pipe. Any other option is a poor cover for lack of sustainability, IMHO.

[ih303]

[quote name='magick777' timestamp='1294442349' post='493740']
I don't know how US lounges work, but as a statement of principle, I dislike the idea of contrivance. Most European lounges are pretty straight forward.

The cost of the hookah should be the sustainable cost of serving the hookah, and should not rely on customers feeling pressured to buy anything else, not even a drink if they don't want one. If I want to pay you to serve shisha and nothing else, you should be able to quote me a price for that and not go out of business. The only honest way (imho) to prevent people from taking the piss is to impose a maximum number per hookah, and that maximum should be what the average table supports (for a single hose hookah) without losing you space for other customers. Four sounds like a reasonable number, perhaps with the option of a deal on a "party hookah" for 8 people sharing 4 hoses, or a "multi hookah" deal for groups. This is also not an unreasonable restriction in that trying to exceed those numbers will not give the customer the best experience.

Whether water should be free or chargeable depends on local custom; it is expected in Spain and many Asian cultures; it isn't in Britain as a rule. However, it should not be a relevant factor in whether the business is viable or whether customers come in to enjoy hookah on sustainable terms. If fifteen people want to come in and take up two tables, sharing two party hookah deals at the asking price, nobody should need to begrudge them two jugs of water and the glasses - but there should be a precondition that fifteen people can't share one pipe. Any other option is a poor cover for lack of sustainability, IMHO.
[/quote]

Great points, man. I agree with you entirely.

Honestly, I hate the idea of charging for water. I think it mostly just sends out the message that we're a bunch of greedy bastards. And keep in mind, this isn't a detrimental issue but more of an annoyance. I really like the idea of only imposing some sort of policy (like the one you mentioned) on larger groups and making water free again.

It's all trial and error I suppose. The real challenge is selling this to my partners who are dead set on making customers pay for bottled water. Unfortunately I feel I'm fighting a losing battle.

[jorlyfish]

Frankly, as much as the [i]concept[/i] of paying for water irks me, I really don't mind paying for water - especially bottled water - when everything else is good. Would I be mad if I had to pay $2.50 for a glass of tap water and service sucked, etc? You bet. Would I be mad if I had to pay $1.00 for a bottle of water, and everything else was on par, if not better? Wouldn't think twice about it.


... Then again, I'm not the type to bring everyone I know to a lounge to share a single hookah with me.

[magick777]

I don't run a business, so if I start talking crap, tell me. But IMHO, the way to sell this to your business partners is that you want to take the customer's money whether the customer is willing to spend $5 or $50. Therefore, I would go for a tiered pricing structure, allied with guidelines on how many it's fore, that lets the customer choose.

For sake of argument, let's say that we want to take $5 per head and per hour on the average, and any more is a bonus. I'm inventing that number for the sake of example, but it is hopefully not a ridiculous one. So if our run-of-the-mill standard package costs $20, lasts an hour or so, and can be shared with up to 4 people, that works, and if they buy drinks, well that justifies any extra service involved. However, that's expensive for one or two people, so you maybe need a "basic" deal as low as $10 to get bums on seats, but with a maximum of two people and a bowl that's not going to last an hour.

Then, you want the punter to spend more, so incentivise it. A couple of nights ago, I hosted a two pipe, two flavour session at home with two friends and it was GREAT fun swapping hoses around every few minutes. First time I'd ever done that, cause it's too damned expensive at a cafe, and I've only recently bought a second pipe. So, incentivise it. Any two of your $10 pipes for $15, any two of your $20 pipes for $35, maybe. Sure, worst case that dips you below your target take per person... but on the average, it ought to work out... and gives users a taste for that sort of thing. Maybe even add a free extra pipe on the house any time you hear it's someone's birthday... someone in that group will come back and buy it later. Or an "off-peak special": extra pipe and extra flavour for $5, loss leader. You get the idea.

Basically by lowering your starting price you broaden the target market, and perhaps get more bums on seats, you let groups share cheaply but with a concept of an average/minimum price per seat factored into the limitations on the hookah packages, then, you get em to spend more voluntarily (we hope).

[ih303]

You've got some good ideas, Magick. In fact, I'm halfway with you already. If you look back in this thread, I actually explained the tier setup that we already have for the exact reasons you specified. What we don't have are the incentives and the person/hookah limitations. I've pitched the limitation idea to them but was met with some resistance as they think it will be too much of a hassle to enforce especially in cases where you have individuals joining a party late.

I want to think on the whole incentive thing for a bit. That idea has a lot of potential because if it's done right we could sell a lot more hookahs.


Keep in mind, man, most good "business sense" is only "common sense" in the context of a business.