Tangiers Theory!

[Zerodynamic]

So, I have noticed that everyone talks about how hard Tangiers is to smoke, and that the buzz is VERY strong.. but I just noticed something. The nicotine content on the package is 0.3. A normal unwashed tobacco is 0.5 and washed is usually 0.05, right?

This would mean that the nicotine content in Tangiers shouldn't be as strong as say Layalina or Al-Waha right? But no one ever complains like about other unwashed tobaccos buzz. So why is it then that Tangiers is so powerful, yet the nicotine content is less? Is it the flavorings? Or how about the cut of Tangiers? Its much larger than other brands.

Let us discuss various Tangiers theories. It would be great if Sonthert could chime in here if he had a chance.

[ASUSEAN1]

eric discussed how these numbers are not accurate, each tobacco plant varies so an exact number can not be determined. Companies just put these numbers to tell you if it is washed or unwashed

[Zerodynamic]

eric discussed how these numbers are not accurate, each tobacco plant varies so an exact number can not be determined. Companies just put these numbers to tell you if it is washed or unwashed

That makes sense I suppose. However what I don't understand is, why does this stuff buzz so hard... on a consistent basis? All the other unwashed brands I've had don't buzz as hard... its very puzzling.

[cymptom]

Tangiers is damn mysterious stuff. That's all anybody can know for sure

The nicotine ratings... I can't see how it would possible for any other brand to have more nicotine than Tangiers. I couldn't get any other tobacco to smoke as harsh as Tangiers can if I tried. It's probably the case that most brands give very rough estimations of the nicotine content, and that it's in actuality much lower than .5. Tangiers rating may be more accurate.

Here's what puzzles me the most about Tangiers: if I put a ton of coal on it, it will smoke smooth as hell but of course it will taste burnt. If I use only a little heat, it can be extremely harsh. I can't really make sense of it -- either it's thin and harsh, or thick and smooth. How does that make sense?

EDIT: Another thing that really puzzles me: Why do some flavors smoke differently than others? Kashmir Peach, Blue Gumball, Melon Blend and F-Line Kashmir smoke perfectly for me almost every time, but several other flavors (Blackthorn, Blueberry, F-Line Apple, Kashmir Apple, Grape) are very rarely (and in some cases, never) smokable. Why should that be?

[ASUSEAN1]

i would imagine that tangiers definately has the most nicotine even though the package only says .3

[Zerodynamic]

So we all can agree that the nicotine content is substantial, and the rule of .5 is obsolete.

If tangiers is .3... that would make other brands what, .2? .1?

Cynptom has a good point, some Tangiers flavors are harder to smoke than others... why is that? All of my Kashmir flavors smoke like a dream.

[Zerodynamic]

Also, lets talk about this tobacco comes... this stuff is reallllly leafy, and not nearly has finely chopped as other brands that I have had. Could that make a difference?

I have never chopped this stuff up, who has? Any difference?

[JoeLipinski]

Cymptom,

I have smoked a grape and as long as I mixed it, which I do every time, then it smoked great. Right now I am smoking horchata (with is amazing), I have two 1" blak magic coals on the edges of my glass funnel bowl and I am getting smooth smoke and it is pretty thick. I do think that tangiers has the highest nicotine content which I feel is why it is loved by people who are used to it. I personally will only smoke tangiers if it is around. I def. think Eric has one of, if not the most flavorful tobacco out of any for most flavors. I can see companies using 0.5 as a general figure for nicotine content. Also the reason tangiers has such a huge buzz and is hard to get down pat is because he probably uses a different tobacco than most companies. I theorize that middle east tobacco manufacturer's tobacco does not have as much nicotine so that they can sell the product to anyone. If they produce a product that anyone can use, then more people will use it. It is a gratification thing. If you can get a tobacco that you enjoy, you are proud that you packed that bowl that you are enjoying.

[cymptom]

Joe: Do you mean just mixing it around in the tub before packing it? Or mixing it with a different brand? I've had great success mixing Tangiers Grape with AF Golden Black Grape, but I've only been able to get it smoking well on its own maybe 3 times. Actually, I never have any trouble when I mix Tangiers with other brands -- it always smokes great.

[ASUSEAN1]

Also, lets talk about this tobacco comes... this stuff is reallllly leafy, and not nearly has finely chopped as other brands that I have had. Could that make a difference?

I have never chopped this stuff up, who has? Any difference?

there isn't really a diffference when you chop it up, the only reason i do it is to make it the same length as the tobacco i am mixing it with so it burns at the same time

[hookaheveryday]

I think its just the nature of the tobacco. It comes as fat juicy leaves. Even if you cut it up it still retains its thickness so i think it just makes it worse. The other companies come pre cut which i think makes it a lighter smoke. The nature of tangiers is that it just burns differently. If the tobacco gets heated up in a certain way it smokes good, too fast and it tastes awful.

[JoeLipinski]

Cymptom,

I meant mixing it before packing it. I rarely mix tangiers... the only times I think I did was when I got a bad batch of strawberry and it didn't really taste like anything.

[Zerodynamic]

Awesome discussion guys! Tangiers is by far one of my favorite tobaccos.

I find that Tangiers smokes easiest while mixed too. The Kashmir/ Esk Apple mix is awesome, with nice puffy clouds and the like. If I smoke it by itself, I find that it can burn way to easy. Perhaps the AF raises the heat tolerance of the Tangiers somehow?

I think that the purpose of cutting up Tangiers is to get more airflow to smaller pieces. Likewise, that would mean that Tangiers when cut smaller would also burn faster.

Also, it says right on the package that the tobacco itself has less flavor, so the molasses can really shine through. I parallel this to Starbuzz. They use American tobacco too, and that stuff is some of the most flavorful stuff I have ever tried. I guess what I am implying is, American tobacco has less flavor than middle-eastern tobacco. Perhaps the molasses/food flavoring has been improved with American tobacco aswell. Less tobacco taste+Better Flavoring=Holy crap I breathe this stuff is so good!

[Allia22]

I must try to master my F-line apple...

[Barnzy02]

Tangiers is made with American grown tobacco, as opposed to the shisha coming from the Middle east ... possible differences there.

[web250]

Tangiers is made with American grown tobacco, as opposed to the shisha coming from the Middle east ... possible differences there.

Most tobaccos made overseas use Virginia tobacco though

[cymptom]

Ahhhh I miss that Kashmir/ Esk Apple mix so much. It's the best. I've been using Romman Apple to substitute, but it's just not the same. I'm thinking about giving Layalina Esk Apple a shot, but I haven't really enjoyed Layalina in the past so I don't know...

I wonder what Smiley flavors would go good with Kashmir.

Joe: I always mix it in the container before packing it. Actually, I'm constantly mixing my tobacco, attempting to keep it acclimated to no avail. Usually never makes a difference.

Ok, so here's yet another Tangiers mystery: When I'm at school, Tangiers smokes horribly. When I'm at home (only 30 minutes away) it smokes much better. Double you tee eff?

[Hookah Joe]

Tangiers is made with American grown tobacco, as opposed to the shisha coming from the Middle east ... possible differences there.

Most tobaccos made overseas use Virginia tobacco though

Well, If they use Virginia Tobacco, that means that they must import it right? Maybe the acclimation or lack of changes the flavor of the tobacco a bit? Not sure, but we're on to something! If they introduced virginia tobacco to grow there, I'm sure the difference in Weather would change the flavor. In conclusion, Professor Joe believes that the acclimation/ weather conditions the Tobacco is in makes a noticable difference.

[ASUSEAN1]

when is eric going to come in with a page and a half explanation about the different types of tobacco?

[Buford]

Virginia tobacco is a variety, it doesn't mean it's from Virginia. Virginia tends to have a higher sugar content that some other types such as white burley. Frankly, I'm surprised that burley isn't used more in shisha tobaccos - it has little sugar and flavor on its own and is usually used as the base for flavored tobaccos like aromatic pipe tobacco. Due to the sugar content, Virginia also tends to burn hotter, or at least it does in drier tobacco forms like pipe tobacco. With the addition of molasses I would assume that attribute is moot.

[Hookah Joe]

Virginia tobacco is a variety, it doesn't mean it's from Virginia. Virginia tends to have a higher sugar content that some other types such as white burley. Frankly, I'm surprised that burley isn't used more in shisha tobaccos - it has little sugar and flavor on its own and is usually used as the base for flavored tobaccos like aromatic pipe tobacco. Due to the sugar content, Virginia also tends to burn hotter, or at least it does in drier tobacco forms like pipe tobacco. With the addition of molasses I would assume that attribute is moot.

Thanks Buford! haha, this pollock finally thought he was onto something Hopefully Eric can shed some light to us.

[Hookah_Bob3]

I believe that why Tangiers is so strong is because of the actual size of the leaves. I believe this leads to a greater surface area for the nicotine to actually be dispersed, causing a greater dosage. This could also be why some Tangiers flavors are harder to smoke than others. As I'm sure those of you who have smoked many different T flavors, some are much stronger than other flavors -- this could be due to several factors, one being the chemical composition of the flavorings themselves that could dilute the nicotine content (wash some away) or, in fact, different leaves.

I really don't know, but that's my speculation and I have a *vague* recollection of the T man himself talking about that

[ASUSEAN1]

I believe that why Tangiers is so strong is because of the actual size of the leaves. I believe this leads to a greater surface area for the nicotine to actually be dispersed, causing a greater dosage. This could also be why some Tangiers flavors are harder to smoke than others. As I'm sure those of you who have smoked many different T flavors, some are much stronger than other flavors -- this could be due to several factors, one being the chemical composition of the flavorings themselves that could dilute the nicotine content (wash some away) or, in fact, different leaves.

I really don't know, but that's my speculation and I have a *vague* recollection of the T man himself talking about that

i don't think the size has anything to do with the nicotine content, i mean cut up your tang's and it won't have a different effect on how much buzz you get or how smooth/harsh it is

[Zerodynamic]

I believe that why Tangiers is so strong is because of the actual size of the leaves. I believe this leads to a greater surface area for the nicotine to actually be dispersed, causing a greater dosage. This could also be why some Tangiers flavors are harder to smoke than others. As I'm sure those of you who have smoked many different T flavors, some are much stronger than other flavors -- this could be due to several factors, one being the chemical composition of the flavorings themselves that could dilute the nicotine content (wash some away) or, in fact, different leaves.

I really don't know, but that's my speculation and I have a *vague* recollection of the T man himself talking about that

i don't think the size has anything to do with the nicotine content, i mean cut up your tang's and it won't have a different effect on how much buzz you get or how smooth/harsh it is

Well Tangiers obviously left his tobacco in such large pieces for a reason. I find that really finely cut tobaccos are easy to smoke, like Al-Waha/Amir/Fakher.

[ASUSEAN1]

Zero: this is from a previous thread about the size of the tobacco from the man, himself

" How long does it take...like 30 minutes? I think thats its actually acclimating and cutting it up doesn't change anything. Moving it around and turning it over and over probably speeds the process along. You could probably get the same results by just poking the tobacco with your finger for a half an hour. Most of the people doing this probably left at least a day between smokings too...but it wouldn't matter I theorize. I can remember fondly watching one of the owners of Fumari with scissors cutting and recutting the tobacco in great tubs. (It was Nahkla, at the time) he believed it made the tobaco smoke better. I believe it just acclimated it better, spreading it out thin and moving it around.

Smaller pieces do have at least two drawbacks:

1. Smaller pieces tend to get sucked through the holes more, clogging things up and getting in the water.

2. Smaller pieces make the tobacco pack tighter...you then need to separate it to get it to smoke right, but it still wants to fall back to that clump and it won't draw right (I call it "settle")...if you're smoking for an hour and then the draw gets too tight, its probably because of settle, caused by too small of pieces of tobacco.

Similar to what I wrote on another post, assuming that small pieces of tobacco are the only way or are the most traditional way is false, tobacco pieces used to be larger (hence sitting around chopping up the Nahkla). Nahkla's has gotten smaller. Much of the Middle East manufacturing is built on presumption. Abu Hitham came along and started selling much more finely-ground tobacco and Al Waha, too. Note Al Waha pieces have actually increased in size over the years. I sat here and tried to think of an analogy. The only thing I have come up with is painting hospitals white inside which tries to imply they are cleaner. Are white things necessarily cleaner? No, but you can seee dirt (stems) easier and saying "Stems are bad, they make the smoke harsh" comes into play (Which is false, by the way, stems don't impact anything, yet I find myself removing them compulsively!). When everyone starts painting their hospital rooms white, the other hospitals follow suit, soon everyone has white rooms, trying to show how clean they are. There is a correct size range for pieces of tobacco...Al Waha and Pharoahs are much closer than the old ones used to be. Maybe a little small, but not bad at all. Al Amir is too small, Havana is too small. Fumari is too small. Whatever anybody told you about size of pieces is probably wrong, suffice it to say. It would absolutely be no problem for me to manufacture the tobacco chopped much finer than it is now...but I don't think the product would perform as well."

And some more info from Camelflage

"Sonthert is right. mathematically, cutting up the tobacco would not change it at all. it is still the same amount of tobacco and same amount of glycerin an molasses, wth a negligable increase in surface area due to the cut ends. the larger tobacco packs fluffier and would actually burn better because volumetrically speaking there is more air to heat around it. finely chopped shisha packs together and gives the same effect as trying to cook a baked potato as opposed to a pile of french fries. just on a smaller scale."


There is some good information in here that makes sense to me, so might as well believe it right? Edited April 5, 2007 by ASUSEAN1