Why The Us Cant Supply Enough Oil

[Lakemonster]

For the last 4 or 5 years I have had a very hard time trying to educate people about our oil situation.

I get the argument that we need to close off our dealings with foreign oil and just tap the hell out of our resources. Maybe open up the Alaskan reserve.... do more drilling otherwise... shale oil..... etc.

Well..... thats a good idea perhaps. But why we cant do that is simple.

OK.... "shale oil" its feasable... but are you wanting to pay $8-10 bucks a gallon until new technology for a cheaper extraction is found? Americans arent going to go for it. We are done with Shale oil.

SO.. whats left? The Alaskan Reserve and more drilling on known oil hotspots. OK.... heres why that wont work either....

There are pockets of oil underground, right? OK.. In the US. the pockets of oil are found in ancient sand beds... the oil is leached in around the sand..... outside of that oil in the same sandbed is (in laymans terms) "Salt water". This pocket of liquid is under pressure down there.... so you have to extract the oil SLOWLY or if you just open it up the salt water can rush in....... then you might spend the next 6 months pumpin out salt water. Salt water doesnt sell.... so that is wasted expense. You have to slowly extract the oil at a given rate in terms of barrels per day..

Many of the wellheads in Texas produce as little as 10 barrels a day, decent wells produce 35-45 barrels a day.

So why is it that the Middle East has so much oil? Because they have a lot of oil. They are not faced with drilling into pockets and "lakes" of oil........ when they drill.. its just another straw stuck into "one big ocean".

To sum it all up..... we can drill all we want... we cannot get it out of the ground fast enough. period.

Our solution depends on alternate fuel energy or the drastic reduction of oil dependency.

SUV's are the enemy.

[mazultav]

AMEN BROTHER!

Lake people seem to have a problem understanding that its not a production issue, but a consumption. Maybe the removal of government subsidies on gas would change peoples opinions. I still can't believe that there are people out there that think that oil is renewable.

[MrBubbler]

my pops runs his own small oil company and we drill in texas and in california and the lack of geologists is scary! we have waited over a year to get a geologist to come on site and review our latest project. Further more the ability to get your hands on a drilling rig here in california or in texas seems to be atleast a year waiting list. So even if we tried to drill more we couldn't due to the lack of drilling rigs! shale is a lost cause due to the environmental dangers in can offset and until they find a way thats cheap and effective to extract it, in my opinion we will stay in the middle east pumping as much oil as possible.

[ASUSEAN1]

everyone should jus go diesel, then eventually turn into bio diesel

[HarryTheHookaMaster]

Heres a thought... I was looking into using E85. I looked online and found out my vehicle isn't compatible. The only vehicles that are compatible are the big, fuel-sucking vehicles that Detroit has been building for years. It appears that E85 is only there to make it fesible for people to feed these soon-to-be-dead, mulit-ton, Detroit follies. If Detroit really wanted to make a difference, why don't they make some of their smaller models run on E85? I mean, E85 is 10% gas and 90% alcohol... its like using 90% oil!
Fuel has jumped 12 cents a gallon here in the midwest in the last two weeks. Oil companies are making a HUGE profit while the economy of the USA suffers. The government just dosen't get it.....

Just my rant....

Harry

[AKammenzind]

Well, our govt. is corrupt, and the majority of the populace are stupid... (a large percentage think oil doesn't run out and global warming is a liberal propaganda story because they believe that the earth is about 6,000 years old and there's an invisible man watching out with a will to fix anything their foolishness can muck up.) so it's no surprise that we have a problem.

Personally I welcome it, one way or another we'll have to change... and not to sound like a sadist but if we delay in dealing with our oil addiction and many people suffer when we finally run out of cheap oil because they didn't want to listen I'm going to thoroughly enjoy their pain.

[ShishaFred]

And who makes Hummers?

You can be sure Hummers and huge SUVs don't sell much outside of america. Europe has very small cars , like the Smart.

[HarryTheHookaMaster]

Good point Fred,

When I travelled through Europe and the UAE, I was surprised to find everyone driving small cars. I mean, even in Dubai (which is swimming in gasoline) every vehicle on the road was small cars. Even the local delivery trucks were smaller versions of their American cousins. I asked a cab driver what they paid for fuel, he told me that it depends on the Emerite(sp?). Some charge as little as 10 cents US a gallon while some charge as much as $2.00 US a gallon! I saw some high-end dealerships there but not alot of gas guzzling hot rods on the street. I asked the cabbie about that and he said driving those cars is frowned upon because they waste fuel!!!!
A nothing thing I find strange, all of the big 3 auto makers build cars for Europe that they don't sell in the US. These cars are smaller and better on gas. I think the reason they don't sell them in the US is because the insurance industry, the lawers, the oil companies, and the auto makers want to keep selling us 2 ton behemouths.....I am sure if a Suburbon hit a European car, it would drive over it, while in Europe, they just don't have huge, heavy cars.....we have alot to learn.


Again, sorry 'bout the rant...

Harry

[ctsmo]

we need more saabs for sure. look at them they made one of the first production ready plug in till gm took their light and put it in their concept chevys. they are already one of the leaders in the world in biopower technology and sales and just came out with an e100 9-5. im all for gm as my family owns 5 but saab is a green euro company that has a lot of technology that the world can use without goin to sloww ass hybrids as their turbo technology flows perfectly with biopower Edited April 9, 2007 by ctsmo

[ASUSEAN1]

Good point Fred,

When I travelled through Europe and the UAE, I was surprised to find everyone driving small cars. I mean, even in Dubai (which is swimming in gasoline) every vehicle on the road was small cars. Even the local delivery trucks were smaller versions of their American cousins. I asked a cab driver what they paid for fuel, he told me that it depends on the Emerite(sp?). Some charge as little as 10 cents US a gallon while some charge as much as $2.00 US a gallon! I saw some high-end dealerships there but not alot of gas guzzling hot rods on the street. I asked the cabbie about that and he said driving those cars is frowned upon because they waste fuel!!!!
A nothing thing I find strange, all of the big 3 auto makers build cars for Europe that they don't sell in the US. These cars are smaller and better on gas. I think the reason they don't sell them in the US is because the insurance industry, the lawers, the oil companies, and the auto makers want to keep selling us 2 ton behemouths.....I am sure if a Suburbon hit a European car, it would drive over it, while in Europe, they just don't have huge, heavy cars.....we have alot to learn.


Again, sorry 'bout the rant...

Harry

americans aren't going to do the mini car thing. that market isn't going to work here. as for the large delivery trucks, they all run diesel which atleadt gets a lot better mileage than gas

[Scheetz]

SUV's are the enemy.

Disagree with that. There are alot of cars out there that have the same MPG as SUV's. Everyone points the finger at SUV's and they dont realize how many cars have the same gas mileage.


Also, the solution is not buying Hybrid cars. Its just a bullshit scam to make more money. And thats my opinion. You spend an average of $2,500 a year on gas for a car. You spend $10k + for the hybrid option. Most people sell their car after about 4 years. You do the math, did you just save any money???

[HarryTheHookaMaster]

I agree, Americans aren't ready to do the mini car thing. We are just to arogant (ignorant?).... for some reason, people think that if they have 2 kids they need something that weighs as much as a bus!! Also, the comment about cars getting just as crappy MPG as SUV's...I agree. I plan on trading my Jeep Cherokee in for a VW TDI in the next few months....diesel is more $ per gallon but by getting TRIPLE the MPG then my truck will more then cover it...


Harry

[Dudeman]

the US not having small cars is probably partly because the US as a whole is overweight and wouldnt fit in them.

[ghostofdavid]

Bigger countries = bigger cars...

The average person who travels in the US travels much further than the average European or Arabic person.

Yes, Europe has the Autobahn... which isn't nearly as big as our interstates.

Most goods and services are hauled by tractor trailers and they need gas, big engines, and burn lots of fuel. They also keep most everything else cheaper by allowing a company to ship a lot of stuff very far for relatively low costs. I like having the ability to buy BBQ sauce made in Texas, fresh produce from California/Florida and fresh beef from various MidWest farms... how do they get to where I am at? Big honkin' trucks delivering huge payloads of food to various distribution centers. Trucks, as I understand it, keep things affordable.

[imagelessdude]

My '06 BMW takes 93 octane gasoline [and gets 13MPG]. My '99 Mazda takes 93 octane gasoline. And My next car will take 93 octane gasoline. And the next one. People WILL pay for gasoline. Americans just won't accept that kind of lifestyle change. I know I wouldn't be caught dead in a Prius with a 0-60mph time of 13 seconds.

Gas used to be 10 cents a gallon. I'll bet the old timers never would have dreamed of paying $1 a gallon.

And when it was $1 a gallon, people wouldn't have dreamed of paying $3.50 a gallon.

Prices have gone up, but nowhere near as fast as consumption.

I say cut gas taxes some. Give the people relief. Edited April 11, 2007 by imagelessdude

[ASUSEAN1]

My '06 BMW takes 93 octane gasoline [and gets 13MPG]. My '99 Mazda takes 93 octane gasoline. And My next car will take 93 octane gasoline. And the next one. People WILL pay for gasoline. Americans just won't accept that kind of lifestyle change. I know I wouldn't be caught dead in a Prius with a 0-60mph time of 13 seconds.

Gas used to be 10 cents a gallon. I'll bet the old timers never would have dreamed of paying $1 a gallon.

And when it was $1 a gallon, people wouldn't have dreamed of paying $3.50 a gallon.

Prices have gone up, but nowhere near as fast as consumption.

I say cut gas taxes some. Give the people relief.

'

my car gets 12 miles a gallon
my parents car gets 12 miles a gallon each
my friends car gets 9 miles a gallon

americans are not going to ever use the min cars. we will continue to waste gas until diesel engines are more popular in cars. then wwe will convert to bio when are energy sources run dry

[moosepotatoes]

Dude.....Have you seen how cheap bananas are? 37 cents a pound, I bought 2 big bunches the other day for 75 cents.........


LETS MAKE BANANA POWERED CARS!!!


No but in all honesty, we need renewable fuel sources. It just seems silly to me that we would start using all these fossil fuels..... and not even think about what happens when we run out..

O well.

[Gaara]

It's not just SUV's.

I have a Nissan Maxima v6 and I spend more on gas than both of my parents cars (Lexus & Toyota SUV).

[cemab4y]

I live in Iraq (10% of the world's proven oil reserves). I have worked for ARAMCO Oil in Saudi Arabia. Although I am a telecommunications engineer, I know a great deal about the oil industry, and the political and economic issues of the petroleum industry.

FACT: The USA gets oil from the Middle East, because the tree-hugging c**k-s*****s have got the politicians all sobbing over the mooses and wildlife in Alaska, so we cannot drill for oil in Alaska. Same with drilling on the continental shelf.

Until we open our own country for oil exploration and production, we are going to be at the mercy of the camel-jockeys.

The way out of the energy situation is not complicated:

Conservation- Using less oil, smaller cars, etc.
Production - Producing more Oil in the USA
Alternatives - Converting coal into oil and gas (like the Germans did in WW2). Additional nuclear power production, hydropower, geothermal.

The good news is that the bad news is wrong.

[azcoyote]

Even my V8 powered pickup routinely gets 18 mpg. Of course I keep my tire inflation up, change airfilters with every oil change and try to coast up to stoplights. I limit my freeway speed to 65. I'd go 55 if I could do so safely. My brakes and tires last longer because I anticipate stops and take my foot off the gas whenever I can. So I gain about 2 mpg just being minimally conscious about fuel. I think if everyone did the same there would be enough fuel saved to push down prices. Don't blame the tree huggers because you bought a hummer or corvette and now it's costing you an arm and a leg to fuel up. I think the biggest waste of fuel is importing Perrier all the way from France. There should be a 100 percent tax on it. If you don't thinks so, spell Evian backwards, and you'll know what the French think of us.

[Sherwood]

Interesting sidenote:

Did you know that the environmental degradation inflicted of Canada from the zinc mining used to make hybrid batteries more than offsets the carbon emissions a hybrid car saves? Basically, you're doing all the damage at once, rather than spread out over 100,000 miles.

Since the batteries need to be replaced that often, it also effectively removes any financial benefit you might reap from lower fuel costs as well.

Diesel isn't bad, but E85 is useless here in Colorado. The ethanol (15%) evaporates at high altitudes.

Point is, 130 years ago people were terrified that we would run out of whale oil and the world would go dark. At the same time, geologists were trying to find a way to get rid of worthless crude oil that kept bubbling out of the ground. Problems solved. No one bothered to find a solution until whale oil got incredibly expensive. The free market will provide a solution when it's necessary.

[Key]

Well, our govt. is corrupt, and the majority of the populace are stupid... (a large percentage think oil doesn't run out and global warming is a liberal propaganda story because they believe that the earth is about 6,000 years old and there's an invisible man watching out with a will to fix anything their foolishness can muck up.) so it's no surprise that we have a problem.

Personally I welcome it, one way or another we'll have to change... and not to sound like a sadist but if we delay in dealing with our oil addiction and many people suffer when we finally run out of cheap oil because they didn't want to listen I'm going to thoroughly enjoy their pain.

I had to quote from earlier posts, sorry. Just need to make a point.

I was just wondering if he was advocating that a large part of our society believes that oil will not run out and that global warming is a liberal propaganda story, which explains why our majority of people are stupid and the government is corrupt? I am just trying to make sense of what AK said. One thing for sure I won't make this thread into a debate about global warming, but I do believe strongly that global warming is fabricated. I will stop there though. Another thing. Oil will not run out, sorry to burst your bubble.

Just something that I have learned from my Economics class. This was a question during one of our first weeks in the class.

[size="2"][/size]Question 21 - Oil

Use your knowledge of economic theory to predict when the Earth will run out of Oil.

Answer:


























General Economic Question 21



As oil becomes relatively scarcer the price will increase. As the price increases, given a downward sloping demand curve, consumers will find substitutes and the quantity of oil demanded will decrease. As the price increases entrepreneurs will assume risk, organize resources and develop alternative sources of energy.



The answer to question 21: NEVER!



When I was in college in the 1970s, during the OPEC created “energy crisis”, my sociology, political science, and other professors warned that oil would disappear by the 1990s. My economics professors said not to worry, markets would take care of the energy problems and oil would last forever.

Wall Street Journal Letter to the Editor


Demand/Supply Lesson


Any first-year economics student could tell you that unless 1970s-style price controls are instituted, there is no chance that the demand for oil will "outstrip" supply ("Oil Demand Could Outstrip Supply by Late Next Decade," Sept. 9). In the event that oil becomes more scarce over time, reversing trends of the past 140 years, prices will rise, quantity demanded will fall and consumers will continue to get all the oil they want.



Roy Cordato, Ph.D.


Vice President for Research and Resident Scholar
The John Locke Foundation
Raleigh, N.C.

I don't really see oil running out anytime soon .

[Sherwood]

As oil becomes relatively scarcer the price will increase. As the price increases, given a downward sloping demand curve, consumers will find substitutes and the quantity of oil demanded will decrease. As the price increases entrepreneurs will assume risk, organize resources and develop alternative sources of energy.

Very well put. A simple supply and demand curve accurately illustrates why, in a free market, limited resources balance themselves automatically.

The irony is, most of the people decrying how stupid americans are cannot actually read a supply and demand curve.

Oil reserves, for those of you who are unaware, are not calculated on the actual amount of oil in the earth. Oil reserves are calculated based on how much oil can be profitably extracted. Shale mining, while not as profitable, is far more valid today than it was thirty years ago. Thus, by industry standards, there is more oil today than there was thirty years ago. It's true that oil is, in reality, a limited resource, but no one has ever published figures on the total amount of oil in the ground, because no one but oil companies really cares.

In other words, drive whatever car you like. As long as you can afford gas, you're paying companies to find new oil, and you are thus increasing the overall amount of measured oil on the planet.

Hooray!

[KillZedKill]

Ride a bike!

Or make fat powered cars, most Americans have plenty of that to spare

[ASUSEAN1]

Did you know that the environmental degradation inflicted of Canada from the zinc mining used to make hybrid batteries more than offsets the carbon emissions a hybrid car saves? Basically, you're doing all the damage at once, rather than spread out over 100,000 miles.

this is true. basically you cause as much harm to the enviroment driving a hummer around than making a hybrid battery that is going to shit out in 5 years and you atr going to need another one..